Isaiah 53, the forbidden chapter of the Hebrew Bible

[LittleNipper]

I'm neither a Hebrew nor Greek scholar.

You don't read the language of your Bible, but you claim to know it?

And you may claim to know the language of your Bible, but you likely don't read it --- at least not take it at simple face value.

 

[LittleNipper]

So, what assurances (scripturely speaking), does a Jew have regarding where he or she will spend eternity and why?

Isn't that between a Jew and G-d? Are you thinking of converting?

Actually, the Jew who is communicating with GOD and is studying GOD's word should know exactly where he stands in regard to his eternity. There are issues that are of negligible importance; however, one's eternal destiny isn't one of them. Also, as a "good neighbor" it seems rather disconcerting that there are those who are unwilling to share GOD's grace with those all around seeking direction or who lack any clue that their house is burning down around them. I've never yet heard a fireman say, "I better not bang on the door because the family in that burning house, well, they maybe sleeping and will be annoyed."

 

[irosie91]

I'm neither a Hebrew nor Greek scholar.

You don't read the language of your Bible, but you claim to know it?

And you may claim to know the language of your Bible, but you likely don't read it --- at least not take it at simple face value.

if you take a translation of any book, especially a scriptural writing "at face value", little nip---you is STOOOOPID. Theoretically I COULD learn Sanskrit----but if I decided to take the idea of an army of FLYING monkeys at "face
value" I would be a shallow minded idiot. .
Getting back to "face value" I have never met an "enthusiastic" christian willing to even attempt to understand the New Testament

 

[fncceo]

Also, as a "good neighbor" it seems rather disconcerting that there are those who are unwilling to share GOD's grace with those all around seeking direction or who lack any clue that their house is burning down around them. I've never yet heard a fireman say, "I better not bang on the door because the family in that burning house, well, they maybe sleeping and will be annoyed."

You're neither a fireman nor a good neighbor. You're the crazy schizoid down the street that keeps everyone awake with your hallucinations of fire and brimstone. If you knock on my door, I'm calling the cops, or worse.

 

[justinacolmena]

You're neither a fireman nor a good neighbor.

They're first responders trained to rapidly take advantage of people in tough situations.

You're the crazy schizoid down the street that keeps everyone awake with your hallucinations of fire and brimstone.

You have a mental health agenda. People have white picket fences, mow their lawns, and walk small, medium, and large dogs in the neighborhood. Enough psychiatrists, psychologists, therapists, counselors, pharmacists, and social workers are employed to enforce uniformity of thought throughout your peaceful neighborhood with solid brick mental institutions, hospitals, psychiatric wards, and insane asylums.

If you knock on my door, I'm calling the cops, or worse.

You have a corporate mental health agenda.

 

[fncceo]

You're neither a fireman nor a good neighbor.

They're first responders trained to rapidly take advantage of people in tough situations.

You're the crazy schizoid down the street that keeps everyone awake with your hallucinations of fire and brimstone.

You have a mental health agenda. People have white picket fences, mow their lawns, and walk small, medium, and large dogs in the neighborhood. Enough psychiatrists, psychologists, therapists, counselors, pharmacists, and social workers are employed to enforce uniformity of thought throughout your peaceful neighborhood with solid brick mental institutions, hospitals, psychiatric wards, and insane asylums.

If you knock on my door, I'm calling the cops, or worse.

You have a corporate mental health agenda.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that your neighbors have called the cops / social workers on you more than a few times.

 

[justinacolmena]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that your neighbors have called the cops / social workers on you more than a few times.

You're a realitor and you have neighbors who don't mind their own business? Really, now?

 

[fncceo]

You're a realitor

Did you mean realtor?

 

[justinacolmena]

Did you mean realtor?

**** if I know they deal in reality property.

 

[fncceo]

Did you mean realtor?

**** if I know they deal in reality property.

Real property is land and anything permanently attached to land. Reality property is the difference between a house in the world and a house in SIMS.

 

[LittleNipper]

I'm neither a Hebrew nor Greek scholar.

You don't read the language of your Bible, but you claim to know it?

And you may claim to know the language of your Bible, but you likely don't read it --- at least not take it at simple face value.

if you take a translation of any book, especially a scriptural writing "at face value", little nip---you is STOOOOPID. Theoretically I COULD learn Sanskrit----but if I decided to take the idea of an army of FLYING monkeys at "face
value" I would be a shallow minded idiot. .
Getting back to "face value" I have never met an "enthusiastic" christian willing to even attempt to understand the New Testament

Well, I will introduce you some. Yet I presume that you wont like it... Home

 

[irosie91]

I'm neither a Hebrew nor Greek scholar.

You don't read the language of your Bible, but you claim to know it?

And you may claim to know the language of your Bible, but you likely don't read it --- at least not take it at simple face value.

if you take a translation of any book, especially a scriptural writing "at face value", little nip---you is STOOOOPID. Theoretically I COULD learn Sanskrit----but if I decided to take the idea of an army of FLYING monkeys at "face
value" I would be a shallow minded idiot. .
Getting back to "face value" I have never met an "enthusiastic" christian willing to even attempt to understand the New Testament

Well, I will introduce you some. Yet I presume that you wont like it... Home

too late----I read your idiot propaganda YEARS AGO (pre-internet). I also read both the New Testament and the "old testament" ---in my teen years. FYI I have no "Jewish Education" as a child. I had MORE christian education as a child because a friendly neighbor (lutheran) took me to Sunday school many times to accompany her daughter.
But I was also an avid READER as a kid and came to understand that the sunday school teacher was a jerk

 

[hobelim]

Isaiah 53 is about the suffering servant, the Jewish People.

No.

Read Isaiah 52; 13,14. This is the introduction to Isaiah 53

"Time was when many were aghast at you, my people; so now many nations recoil; at sight of him, and kings curl their lips in disgust. For they see what they had never been told and things unheard before fill their thoughts."

He a clear distinction is made between the Jewish people, my people (plural), and him (singular), the suffering servant whose description follows in 53.

 

[Ria_Longhorn]

Isaiah 53 is about the suffering servant, the Jewish People.

No.

Read Isaiah 52; 13,14. This is the introduction to Isaiah 53

"Time was when many were aghast at you, my people; so now many nations recoil; at sight of him, and kings curl their lips in disgust. For they see what they had never been told and things unheard before fill their thoughts."

He a clear distinction is made between the Jewish people, my people (plural), and him (singular), the suffering servant whose description follows in 53.

Let's go to the source, Prophet Isaiah:

But you, Israel, My servant, Jacob, whom I have chosen, the offspring of Abraham, My friend; you whom I took from the ends of the earth, and called from its farthest corners, saying to you, “You are My servant, I have chosen you and not cast you off.” -- Isaiah 41: 8,9


But now hear, O Jacob My servant, Israel whom I have chosen! -- Isaiah 44: 1


Remember these things, O Jacob, and Israel, for you are My servant; I formed you; you are My servant; O Israel, you will not be forgotten by Me. -- Isaiah 44: 21


For the sake of My servant Jacob, and Israel my chosen, I called you by your name, I name you, though you do not know Me. -- Isaiah 45: 4


Go out from Babylon, flee from Chaldea, declare this with a shout of joy, proclaim it, send it out to the end of the earth; say, “The Lord has redeemed His servant Jacob!” -- Isaiah 48: 20


And He said to me, “You are My servant, Israel, in whom I will be glorified.” --Isaiah 49: 3


That Isaiah is talking about a nation and not an individual is confirmed by chapter 53: 8, "for the transgressions of My people [we gentiles] they [i.e., the Jewish People] were stricken."

"You are My witnesses, said the Lord, And My servant whom I have chosen" -- Isaiah 43: 10

"My witnesses" (plural); "My servant" (singular)

All the servant verses in Isaiah are referring to the Jewish People collectively.

 

[surada]

Isaiah 53

1 Who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed? 2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground. He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him. 3 He was despised and rejected by mankind, a man of suffering, and familiar with pain. Like one from whom people hide their faces he was despised, and we held him in low esteem. 4 Surely he took up our pain and bore our suffering, yet we considered him punished by God, stricken by him, and afflicted. 5 But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was on him, and by his wounds we are healed. 6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to our own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all. 7 He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth. 8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away. Yet who of his generation protested? For he was cut off from the land of the living; for the transgression of my people he was punished. 9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death, though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth. 10 Yet it was the LORD’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the LORD makes his life an offering for sin, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand. 11 After he has suffered, he will see the light of life and be satisfied ; by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities. 12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,and he will divide the spoils with the strong,because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Read ALL of Isaiah.. 53 is about Israel NOT Jesus.

Christians shouldn't change Jewish scripture. God often calls Israel his servant... again and again.

 

[surada]

It is amazing how so called Christians bring up this passage to support the narrative about Jesus, but at the same time completely ignore 11th and 12th paragraphs which completely refute the absurd idea of Jesus' divinity.

There is no contradiction to Christ's divinity. 11 says that he works only as per God, which He Himself says in the Gospels too. And 12 says that He is the Giver. Nothing extraordinary.

Yeah, 'my rightful servant' and 'I will give him a portion among the great' clearly show that here is said about the 'son' of God who is equal with the Father, right?

The Messiah took on the cloak of a servant (human form). HE came to be born, live and then die for our transgressions and arise triumphant. GOD the Father now can view those that are born-again, through the MESSIAH, as without sin. That is because the MESSIAH is without sin.

Look how many times in the OT God refers to Israel his servant. Don't change it to make it fit Jesus unless you think Jesus wasn't quite enough.

 

[surada]

Basically, the New Testament was also sealed with a blood sacrifice. The blood of Jesus.

Yes.

So, what was the meaning of blood sacrifice, in principle?

Blood sacrifice is actually pretty gross and pagan. Human sacrifice is worse. God doesn't eat. Is he appeased with blood? This is scapegoating.. like putting your sins on a goat Azazel.. and killing the goat to make God happy.

 

[buttercup]

I'm late to this thread and haven't read the whole thing, but just wanted to say that a lot of Messianic Jews came to Christ because of Isaiah 53... or at least in part because of that chapter. I've heard that in tons of testimonies.

Here's just one example of many. The whole thing is worth watching, but if you don't want to take the time, the pertinent part starts at 3:14.

 

[fncceo]

but just wanted to say that a lot of Messianic Jews came to Christ because of Isaiah 53

It's tempting for some to believe that "Messianic Jews" are Jews who became xtians but retained Jewish ritual.

But, the fact is, the majority of Messianic Jews were born xtian and adopted Jewish ritual as a way of hooking in Jews to their religion.

Messianic Judaism and groups such as "Jews for Jesus" are Protestant xtian groups and are funded by Protestant xtian churches.

 

[buttercup]

but just wanted to say that a lot of Messianic Jews came to Christ because of Isaiah 53

It's tempting for some to believe that "Messianic Jews" are Jews who became xtians but retained Jewish ritual.

But, the fact is, the majority of Messianic Jews were born xtian and adopted Jewish ritual as a way of hooking in Jews to their religion.

Messianic Judaism and groups such as "Jews for Jesus" are Protestant xtian groups and are funded by Protestant xtian churches.

The Messianic Jews in those testimony videos were not born Christian. All you have to do is watch the testimonies for yourself and you will clearly see that they were Jewish, or came from a Jewish family, and in their own words they explain how they came to Christ. The testimonies are powerful. I get that you don't want to believe it, and I know that you don't like it, but you can't take away their personal experiences. The testimonies speak for themselves.

As for Jews for Jesus, that is a different group. Even if Jews for Jesus gets funding from Christian churches, that doesn't change the fact that most of the people within that group are Jewish believers in Christ.