Is Trump negotiating with himself?

[Frankeneinstein]

Iranian leaders

Never start a sentence with an oxymoron

 

[AntonToo]

You see no evidence? It would help if you open your eyes.

TO WHAT?

 

[berg80]

Yeah. I keep saying it, congressional Republicans could end this today, the Cabinet could end this today.

This is on them.

Going back to the original sin, the entire cluster **** is on trump voter's colossal error in judgement.

 

[Mac1958]

Going back to the original sin, the entire cluster **** is on trump voter's colossal error in judgement.

Imagine what that "decision process" was like.

 

[jc456]

I swear... these new people are real.

View attachment 1237235

well you do know the leaders were blowed up sir, right? So who do you suppose he's talking to? Would he know or you?

 

[jc456]

Going back to the original sin, the entire cluster **** is on trump voter's colossal error in judgement.

still can't allow others their votes. look at you fascists. You know that's what you're saying right?

you belong with these privileged white women doing gods work for blacks. Cause again, blacks are inferior to them all.

 

[Winston]

You see no evidence? It would help if you open your eyes.

Well then, how about you provide some evidence that there is negotiations going on. All I see is the talks between Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and Pakistan. Evidently, Pakistan is going to broker the deal. There was not a single representative of the American government at that meeting this weekend in Turkey.

 

[Darkwind]

Oh no! Trump is not giving members of the media and the clowns on this forum access to the actual disscusions so naturally, they have to start lying and belittling any efforts at diplomacy.

Why?

Because they cannot attack Trump on diplomacy if it means that they no longer get to attack him on the war.

 

[jc456]

Well then, how about you provide some evidence that there is negotiations going on. All I see is the talks between Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and Pakistan. Evidently, Pakistan is going to broker the deal. There was not a single representative of the American government at that meeting this weekend in Turkey.

can't make this shit up!

 

[postman]

Going back to the original sin, the entire cluster **** is on trump voter's colossal error in judgement.

The Trump demographics in 2024 were a combination of people voting their hopes and fears. Trump promised everything to everyone.
He promised young black men more jobs. The middle class tax cuts and affordable groceries. Trump promised to end the war in Ukraine, and not to start any new foreign wars.
You can't fault them for voting with their pocketbook. But you can fault them for not seeing the wolf in sheep's clothing, wanting to guard the hen house.

Republicans are getting buyers remorse.

 

[Mac1958]

Trump doesn't know how to use carrot and stick.
He knows how to use lawyers, tariffs and bombs.

We have to get lucky here. There are some reports of defections within Iran's higher ranks, but since they were set up to decentralize if under attack, there's no way to know how much of that is needed.

Presumably, that's what Trump and his semi-retarded "Secretary of War" are hoping for. So we need that to happen, AND something that forcibly makes them give up Hormuz, somehow.

 

[Frankeneinstein]

TO WHAT?

To how far white liberalism has fallen, its gone from self-congratulatory back slapping to meaningless to transparent to irrelevant...the only thing more despised than trump and his half of America is the other half of America.

 

[Nuthin' Fancy]

Iranian leaders are saying "Trump is negotiating with himself" I don't want to believe them, but I've seen no evidence whatsoever that Iran is holding any kind of high (or even midlevel) talks with the US with the idea of ending this war.

With Russia now funneling arms to Iran through the black market as well as sending Iran logistical info. on American naval and troop movements, it looks like Iran is digging in for a long war.

I hope I'm wrong here, but it appears the statements from Iran's leaders make more sense than our own President.

To be fair, making more sense that Trump isn't a high bar.

 

[berg80]

Imagine what that "decision process" was like.

I had a falling out with a friend of over 60 years over the No Kings protests. Previous to that we had a debate over Mueller and his report. My takeaway is.........even after all this time I under estimated the degree to which he has immersed himself in the alternative reality right wing media is spewing. That is how I think about trumples now. I didn't fully comprehend how far down the rabbit hole they've gone.

This friend is a former partner in a CPA firm, a former teacher at his alma mater, and a millionaire. He's not dumb. But he is brainwashed. How badly? He called Mueller a stooge for the Democrats. He called me self righteous when I pointed out the factual findings from Mueller's report. He thinks Soros and some guy named Neville Singham, who I had never heard of, are responsible for the No Kings protests. It is difficult to fully grasp how completely different the world looks to them.

 

[Winston]

Imagine what that "decision process" was like.

There wasn't one, not much of one. I mean the apparatus was broke before they started messing with it.

It is hard to convey the gloom that has overtaken Washington. All the structures that are vital to crisis management have either been attenuated or disbanded. There is hardly anyone left on the National Security Council staff. A friend described an empty State Department where you could hear your own foot steps. Marco Rubio is involved in the decision-making but he has neglected to acquire the professional staff assessments that should inform such decisions (see this from Dan Drezner).

The military part of the Pentagon still functions, but the civilian part has been purged. At its head is Pete Hegseth who puts effort into looking charismatic and brings the perspective of a disgruntled junior officer to everything he does, waging his own war on ‘woke’ which in its latest version involves striking out the names of two black men and two women for promotion to general. Some satisfaction is taken that figures such as Elbridge Colby, who were supposed to be providing the intellectual heft to security policy, are now stuck defending exactly the interventions they were pledged to avoid.

Trump runs out of options

For the past week I have been in Washington.

samf.substack.com

It is really hard to understate how much of the political apparatus has been destroyed, and no, we are not talking about war against the "Deep State". Turns out, all the "Deep State" was was a bunch of civilian professionals, highly experienced lifetime public servants, that are being forced out at an alarming rate. In the labor field it is called "Brain Drain". And this nation is hemorrhaging.

 

[jc456]

The Trump demographics in 2024 were a combination of people voting their hopes and fears. Trump promised everything to everyone.
He promised young black men more jobs. The middle class tax cuts and affordable groceries. Trump promised to end the war in Ukraine, and not to start any new foreign wars.
You can't fault them for voting with their pocketbook. But you can fault them for not seeing the wolf in sheep's clothing, wanting to guard the hen house.

Republicans are getting buyers remorse.

where?

 

[Winston]

We have to get lucky here. There are some reports of defections within Iran's higher ranks, but since they were set up to decentralize if under attack, there's no way to know how much of that is needed.

Presumably, that's what Trump and his semi-retarded "Secretary of War" are hoping for. So we need that to happen, AND something that forcibly makes them give up Hormuz, somehow.

Sorry, but much more than luck. Defections at the higher ranks? Yes, maybe the military, but not the religious leadership, that is not going away anytime soon, if ever.

It appears Kharg Island is now on Trump's target list. Ground troops will enter a damn killing field, for Iran, it will be like shooting fish in a damn barrel, with drones. Trump has managed to manipulate himself into a lose/lose proposition, demonstrating perfectly just how good of a business man he really is.

 

[Mac1958]

I had a falling out with a friend of over 60 years over the No Kings protests. Previous to that we had a debate over Mueller and his report. My takeaway is.........even after all this time I under estimated the degree to which he has immersed himself in the alternative reality right wing media is spewing. That is how I think about trumples now. I didn't fully comprehend how far down the rabbit hole they've gone.

This friend is a former partner in a CPA firm, a former teacher at his alma mater, and a millionaire. He's not dumb. But he is brainwashed. How badly? He called Mueller a stooge for the Democrats. He called me self righteous when I pointed out the factual findings from Mueller's report. He thinks Soros and some guy named Neville Singham, who I had never heard of, are responsible for the No Kings protests. It is difficult to fully grasp how completely different the world looks to them.

Sorry to hear that. The term "alternate universe" seems hyperbolic on its face, but it really isn't that far off.

It's exasperating, it's exhausting, and it's wrecking relationships across the country. There is a rage underneath all of this that I still can't understand. How far down the rabbit hole does one have to be to just piss away close personal relationships and family members? You see the very same thing with the Scientologists, complete separation from friends and family.

 

[postman]

We have to get lucky here. There are some reports of defections within Iran's higher ranks, but since they were set up to decentralize if under attack, there's no way to know how much of that is needed.

Presumably, that's what Trump and his semi-retarded "Secretary of War" are hoping for. So we need that to happen, AND something that forcibly makes them give up Hormuz, somehow.

Remember the movie "Crimson Tide"?

USS Alabama, a U.S. Navy submarine, is dispatched on patrol with orders to launch a pre-emptive nuclear strike if Radchenko (a Russian ultra-nationalist rebel, take control of a nuclear missile installation) fuels his missiles.

Alabama receives an Emergency Action Message ordering a missile launch against the Russian base. As Alabama prepares to fire, a second radio message is detected before a rebel Russian Akula-class submarine attacks, damaging the boat’s radio and leaving the message incomplete.
With the last confirmed order being to launch, Ramsey decides to proceed.

Iran may be in a similar position, where the field units will continue to follow the last command and control orders, until new orders tell them to stop. And with their command and control obliterated, there may be no way to tell them to stop.

 

[berg80]

There wasn't one, not much of one. I mean the apparatus was broke before they started messing with it.

It is hard to convey the gloom that has overtaken Washington. All the structures that are vital to crisis management have either been attenuated or disbanded. There is hardly anyone left on the National Security Council staff. A friend described an empty State Department where you could hear your own foot steps. Marco Rubio is involved in the decision-making but he has neglected to acquire the professional staff assessments that should inform such decisions (see this from Dan Drezner).

The military part of the Pentagon still functions, but the civilian part has been purged. At its head is Pete Hegseth who puts effort into looking charismatic and brings the perspective of a disgruntled junior officer to everything he does, waging his own war on ‘woke’ which in its latest version involves striking out the names of two black men and two women for promotion to general. Some satisfaction is taken that figures such as Elbridge Colby, who were supposed to be providing the intellectual heft to security policy, are now stuck defending exactly the interventions they were pledged to avoid.

Trump runs out of options

For the past week I have been in Washington.

samf.substack.com

It is really hard to understate how much of the political apparatus has been destroyed, and no, we are not talking about war against the "Deep State". Turns out, all the "Deep State" was was a bunch of civilian professionals, highly experienced lifetime public servants, that are being forced out at an alarming rate. In the labor field it is called "Brain Drain". And this nation is hemorrhaging.

The deep state is a fiction of the nihilist we know as Steve Bannon's making to justify the methodical dismantling of the government.