Is Trump FINALLY Learning Appeasement NEVER Works?

[kyzr]

23 Billion is about how much UK contributed, who is not an EU member.
Why would economically smaller EU be expected to "catch up"?

Because they are 450m people and the US is 330m. Take up a collection to make up the difference.
Plus most of the EU takes the month of August on "holiday" while we sweat our balls off working.

They have certainly pulled their weight compared to US contribution with respect to their economy size and your suggestion that they are somehow "riding coat tails' is simply false.

There is an ocean between us and Russia, the EU is directly affected, I could even say that since the EU bought Putin's energy that they are helped Putin fund his war machine. We gave more to Ukraine than we should have.

And not ONLY is it false, it's a complete Red Herring. Trump administration's effective position TO THIS DAY is - "not a penny for Ukraine". Trump is barely sending what was ALREADY signed off by Biden and for the rest the plan is to have weapons SOLD, not given.

True. Trump is saying that the EU needs to take the lead in defending Ukraine. The US is cutting spending, we've done more than our share of protecting the EU from Russia, now the EU needs to protect itself.

 

[g5000]

Because they are 450m people and the US is 330m. Take up a collection to make up the difference.

A collection?

The GDP of the EU is $20 trillion. The GDP of the US is $28 trillion.

 

[sartre play]

You are posting like a naive child. Everyone generally speaking wants to see peace and happiness and kumbaya and blah blah blah.

IT'S HOW YOU GET THERE

There will be no peace made by rolling over to Putin, whenever he succeeds in taking more he keeps on taking more and more and more.

He understands only brute force and if you STILL don't get that peace with that fucked in the head emperor-wanna-be can only be had at a barrel of a gun then you are not paying attention.

You were told that Trump's Ukraine promises are empty bullshit and now it's proven so. Trump's go-nowhere negotiating, apeasement and stalling hurt Ukraine and helped Putin.

So the only question from here is if you are still going to be in that clown car when Trump refuses to sign Republican backed sanctions on Russia and refuses to provide millitary aid to Ukraine after all the Biden signed funding runs out.

I have one point only. PUTIN IS A DICTATOR. He has a LONG history of picking on small nations bombing the hell out of them.
Always support Any NATION that wants to be Free to run its self, As long as they are not attacking other nations.

 

[AntonToo]

Because they are 450m people and the US is 330m. Take up a collection to make up the difference.
Plus most of the EU takes the month of August on "holiday" while we sweat our balls off working.

There is an ocean between us and Russia, the EU is directly affected, I could even say that since the EU bought Putin's energy that they are helped Putin fund his war machine. We gave more to Ukraine than we should have.

True. Trump is saying that the EU needs to take the lead in defending Ukraine. The US is cutting spending, we've done more than our share of protecting the EU from Russia, now the EU needs to protect itself.

Lets note that you have gone from faulting EU for supposedly riding the coat tails, to arguing that US is the one that should be riding the coat tails of EU's aid to Ukraine.

I will correct you on one more crucial point - we DID NOT do more than our share. Our share, unlike for EU, was outlined in the Budapest Memorandum where America has given Ukraine assurances that it will support it's defense against agression if Ukraine gives up it's nuclear weapons.

US refusing to at least materially support Ukraine while it's still being invaded would be a failure to fulfil our promise to Ukraine and a failure to support integrity of international law that will have long lasting implications.

 

[Rogue AI]

The only appeasement that occurred was when Biden and his Eurotrash friends did nothing as Russian tanks crossed the border.

 

[AntonToo]

The only appeasement that occurred was when Biden and his Eurotrash friends did nothing as Russian tanks crossed the border.

You mean aside from heavy sanctions on Russia (including immediate shutdown of Nordstream II) and supporting, funding arming Ukraine so they could retake 50% of territories captured in the initial days of the invasion?

It's funny you say that while Trump is refusing to get onboard with bi-partisan sanctions on Russia, has been limiting intelligence support and delaying already apropriated arms to Ukraine.

 

[AntonToo]

Because they are 450m people and the US is 330m. Take up a collection to make up the difference.

Thats a very sad argument considering you were already explained the large GDP difference between US and EU.

Yes it's more people, but they collectively clearly have less means to contribute.

 

[AntonToo]

Supporting Ukraine as an American is one of the most pointless, and asine things an American can ever do. A waste of money, it is immoral (Ukraine provoked the conflict, suspended elections, has actual Nazis in their army, etc).

Thats about as ignorant as saying that support for Britain "is one of the most pointless, and asine things an American can ever do" during World War II.

Ukraine never attacked Russia and never threatened it's security or sovereignty when it was invaded. Russian invasion has had no reasonable justification.

I don't know who fed you that Kremlin propaganda, but clearly you are full of it.

 

[Correll]

Never.

MORON.

 

[g5000]

MORON.

Take Putin's cock out of your mouth.

 

[Correll]

Take Putin's cock out of your mouth.

SAID THE MORON.

 

[kyzr]

A collection?
The GDP of the EU is $20 trillion. The GDP of the US is $28 trillion.

So you're agreeing with me that they can afford to match the US?
I don't let them plead poverty.

 

[g5000]

So you're agreeing with me that they can afford to match the US?
I don't let them plead poverty.

Europe has 70 percent of the wealth we have. So a one-to-one match is not reasonable.

It is just as much in our interest to protect Europe as it is theirs.

However, if you search my posting history, you will see no one has advocated for Europe to contribute more to their own defense more than me. And I have been doing that long before anyone was talking about a certain game show host for president.

I have said many times they look down their noses at us for not having the same social safety net they do while they heavily rely on us for their defense.

As a 20 year veteran, this has always annoyed me.

I have made this point as part of my total package of reforms we need to get our spending under control.

1. Cut defense spending and make Europe carry their own weight.

2. Eliminate all tax expenditures except the EITC.

3. Raise the Social Security eligibility age to 70, and index to 9 percent going forward.

Just these three things would bring a huge surplus, allowing for significant tax cuts to everyone while we pay down our debt. Once the debt is paid off, more tax cuts.

And there are quite a few serendipitous results of these actions, too.

And our economy would blast off like has not happened in decades.

 

[AntonToo]

I disagree. For a.. an ACCEPTABLE deal for Putin, he has to have a "promise" that Ukraine will not pursue the war into Russia held territories, or god forbid Russia itself.

Because again, you don't know what you are talking about.

Putin does not give a shit about "promises", because he himself does not keep any.

Ukraine unilaterally attacking NUCLEAR ARMED Russia is not a serious concern for anyone that understands anything.

 

[Correll]

Because again, you don't know what you are talking about.

Putin does not give a shit about "promises", because he himself does not keep any.

Ukraine unilaterally attacking NUCLEAR ARMED Russia is not a serious concern for anyone that understands anything.

1. Sure he does. Such a promise would make it politically more difficult for Europeans or American governments to support Ukrainian AGGRESSION.

2. Ukraine has already attacked Russian territory many times. Your pretense that it would not, is insane.

 

[AntonToo]

1. Sure he does. Such a promise would make it politically more difficult for Europeans or American governments to support Ukrainian AGGRESSION.

2. Ukraine has already attacked Russian territory many times. Your pretense that it would not, is insane.

I see you are clue resistant: Ukraine has NEVER attacked Russian territories except as part of an active defensive war.

Ukraine invading Russia to start an active war from a frozen conflict would be completely insane as it would destroy international support for Ukraine and give Putin a legitimate case to use nuclear arms.

 

[Correll]

I see you are clue resistant: Ukraine has NEVER attacked Russian territories except as part of an active defensive war.

So? If Zelenski doesn't recognize or accept territorial losses, then a rearming period followed by an attack, could be argued to still be "Defensive" since Russia is still occupying Ukrainian land.

Ukraine invading Russia to start an active war from a frozen conflict would be completely insane

Only slightly more insane than the way Zelenski resisted the peace talks when Trump first pushed them.

as it would undermine international support for Ukraine that is it's bloodline and give Putin a legitimate excuse to use nuclear arms.

a LEGITMATE EXCUSE to use nuclear arms? LOL. That's crazy talk.

 

[AntonToo]

So? If Zelenski doesn't recognize or accept territorial losses, then a rearming period followed by an attack, could be argued to still be "Defensive" since Russia is still occupying Ukrainian land.

What the hell does invading Russia have to do with reclaiming occupied territories? You are incoherrent.

 

[Correll]

What the **** does invading Russia have to do with attacking occupied territories?

LOL. What the **** did you just say? Can you be any dumber? HAHAHAHAHAHA.

 

[AntonToo]

LOL. What the **** did you just say? Can you be any dumber? HAHAHAHAHAHA.

Well since you can't keep track of what you are saying, lets review it togather:

Russia has been occupying Crimea since 2014, number of attacks on it before fullscale invasion? ZERO because Ukraine had no international support to start a hot war against Russia and no backing to conduct it. Nobody in their right mind in the west will support Ukraine breaking the peace once the conflict is frozen.