Is Trump FINALLY Learning Appeasement NEVER Works?

[Monoculturalist]

Going into wars late seems to be America's strength.

Forget about Truman, maybe the Japs bombing the US was a major reason!!

Truman's comments were made before the attack on Pearl Harbor. By the time that happened, entrance into WW2 was inevitable. We had already made it clear which side we were on before we entered the war, however. We had been trading with and supplying the Allies before our entrance, and we were in conflict with Japan over control of the Pacific as well.

The attack on Pearl Harbor wasn't a foregone conclusion, however. We could have interacted with Japan less aggressively, and the attack might not have occurred. Hindsight is 20/20, but a strong Imperial Japan would have been preferable to a strong Communist China.

 

[GLASNOST]

Is Trump FINALLY Learning Appeasement NEVER Works?​

Donald Trump has always admired strongmen, even communist dictators. He has had a particular fawning admiration of Stalinist dictator Vladimir Putin ....

​

You are an idiot.

 

[konradv]

NATO didn't prevent limited conventional war during the Cold War period, so I'm not sure how it would do that today.

There were no wars in Europe during the Cold War. Compare that to all the previous centuries.

 

[Monoculturalist]

There were no wars in Europe during the Cold War. Compare that to all the previous centuries.

That's not true. Just in the 90s, there was the Bosnian War and the Yugoslav Wars.

 

[konradv]

That's not true. Just in the 90s, there was the Bosnian War and the Yugoslav Wars.

The Cold War was over and that was a civil war over the break up of Yugoslavia, rather than one country attacking another.

 

[Monoculturalist]

The Cold War was over and that was a civil war over the break up of Yugoslavia, rather than one country attacking another.

True, the Cold War ended in 1991, but I can give examples before the 90s, like the Turkish invasion of Cyprus.

 

[konradv]

True, the Cold War ended in 1991, but I can give examples before the 90s, like the Turkish invasion of Cyprus.

You’re grasping at straws here. I’m talking real wars.

 

[GLASNOST]

The Cold War was over and that was a civil war over the break up of Yugoslavia, rather than one country attacking another.

Look at the encrouchment of NATO and the EU. The Cold War is still not over.

 

[Monoculturalist]

You’re grasping at straws here. I’m talking real wars.

The "real" wars were in other regions, but that has less to do with NATO than with where Communism was most active in expansion and with our dependency on foreign oil.

 

[irosie91]

Look at the encrouchment of NATO and the EU. The Cold War is still not over.

what encroachment of NATO and the EU?

 

[Monoculturalist]

what encroachment of NATO and the EU?

I can't speak for him, but NATO's expansion into many former Soviet Republics went against prior agreements we had with Russia. As it expanded closer towards Russia, that understandably put Russia on the defensive. Extending an offer of NATO membership to Ukraine is part of what led to the invasion by Russia.

Officially, the Cold War ended in 1991, but in practical terms, a lot of the same tensions and power dynamics are present.

 

[irosie91]

I can't speak for him, but NATO's expansion into many former Soviet Republics went against prior agreements we had with Russia. As it expanded closer towards Russia, that understandably put Russia on the defensive. Extending an offer of NATO membership to Ukraine is part of what led to the invasion by Russia.

Officially, the Cold War ended in 1991, but in practical terms, a lot of the same tensions and power dynamics are present.

what PRIOR agreement did we have with Russia about those nations that managed to free themselves
from being part and parcel of the GREAT RUSSIAN EMPIRE ? Those lands became free agents

 

[Monoculturalist]

what PRIOR agreement did we have with Russia about those nations that managed to free themselves
from being part and parcel of the GREAT RUSSIAN EMPIRE ? Those lands became free agents

The former Soviet Republics have largely become vassals of either the West or Russia. Ukraine has alternated between both multiple times in the last 30 years. They are only free in the official sense, not the practical sense.

The prior agreements are explained here: Controversy regarding NATO's eastward expansion - Wikipedia

Admittedly, much of this involves verbal agreements rather than written ones. So, obviously, a verbal agreement isn't legally binding, but the situation with Ukraine is similar to what the US experienced with Cuba during the Missile Crisis. In a lot of prior cases of NATO expansion, the West placed missiles in these countries. Ukraine becoming a NATO member could have ended up that way as well, which obviously would be a direct threat to Russia.

I view the situation the same way as if Russia or China entered a military agreement with Mexico. We'd obviously be pretty pissed about that, and if missiles were discussed as part of the agreement, we'd probably invade Mexico or overthrow their regime to install our own puppet.

 

[irosie91]

The former Soviet Republics have largely become vassals of either the West or Russia. Ukraine has alternated between both multiple times in the last 30 years. They are only free in the official sense, not the practical sense.

The prior agreements are explained here: Controversy regarding NATO's eastward expansion - Wikipedia

Admittedly, much of this involves verbal agreements rather than written ones. So, obviously, a verbal agreement isn't legally binding, but the situation with Ukraine is similar to what the US experienced with Cuba during the Missile Crisis. In a lot of prior cases of NATO expansion, the West placed missiles in these countries. Ukraine becoming a NATO member could have ended up that way as well, which obviously would be a direct threat to Russia.

I view the situation the same way as if Russia or China entered a military agreement with Mexico. We'd obviously be pretty pissed about that, and if missiles were discussed as part of the agreement, we'd probably invade Mexico or overthrow their regime to install our own puppet.

oh OK I agree that the lands that separated themselves from the GREAT RUSSIAN EMPIRE----
are free to tell Russia to SUCK IT UP

 

[Monoculturalist]

oh OK I agree that the lands that separated themselves from the GREAT RUSSIAN EMPIRE----
are free to tell Russia to SUCK IT UP

I guess that depends on which regime is in power. The problem is that these former parts of the USSR tend to be very corrupt and dependent on foreign resources, hence their pattern of being under the control of either the West or Russia.

In an ideal world, they would have actual sovereignty, but they really don't. This is why it becomes a matter of negotiation between Russia and NATO. Ukraine doesn't really control its own fate.

 

[konradv]

Look at the encrouchment of NATO and the EU. The Cold War is still not over.

It’s not over because Trump is bending over for Putin.

 

[Captain Caveman]

Truman's comments were made before the attack on Pearl Harbor. By the time that happened, entrance into WW2 was inevitable. We had already made it clear which side we were on before we entered the war, however. We had been trading with and supplying the Allies before our entrance, and we were in conflict with Japan over control of the Pacific as well.

The attack on Pearl Harbor wasn't a foregone conclusion, however. We could have interacted with Japan less aggressively, and the attack might not have occurred. Hindsight is 20/20, but a strong Imperial Japan would have been preferable to a strong Communist China.

The UK, Cuba, Finland, Hungary, Liberia, and Nicaragua all repaid the US for WW2 supplies. I think Taiwan still owe money.

Did the colonies repay the Dutch, Spanish, and the French for independence?

 

[irosie91]

It’s not over because Trump is bending over for Putin.

what's not over because of BENDOVER?-----right now there is more BENDOVER than that with which you
mention-----the BENDOVER of FRANCE--came up a just the right time for an islamo nazi orgasm

 

[konradv]

what's not over because of BENDOVER?-----right now there is more BENDOVER than that with which you
mention-----the BENDOVER of FRANCE--came up a just the right time for an islamo nazi orgasm

Up the meds!

 

[GLASNOST]

I can't speak for him, but NATO's expansion into many former Soviet Republics went against prior agreements we had with Russia. As it expanded closer towards Russia, that understandably put Russia on the defensive.

Correct.

Extending an offer of NATO membership to Ukraine is part of what led to the invasion by Russia.

An "offer"? It's considered a demand by the MIC.

Officially, the Cold War ended in 1991, but in practical terms, a lot of the same tensions and power dynamics are present.

Yes.