Is Trump FINALLY Learning Appeasement NEVER Works?

[Correll]

Well since you can't keep track of what you are saying, lets review it togather:

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Russia has been occupying Crimea since 2014, number of attacks on it before fullscale invasion? ZERO because Ukraine had no international support to start a hot war against Russia and no backing to conduct it. Nobody in their right mind in the west will support Ukraine breaking the peace once the conflict is frozen.

Your opinion is noted.


We were of course discussing what PUTIN was seeing and thinking about, HIS opinion on events and people.


Not yours.

 

[AntonToo]

Your opinion is noted.


We were of course discussing what PUTIN was seeing and thinking about, HIS opinion on events and people.


Not yours.

Facts are not opinions.

…and you imagine that you understand Putin better?

 

[Correll]

Facts are not opinions.

…and you imagine that you understand Putin better?

Opinions are what people base their actions on, and we were discussion Putin's opinions and actions.


Lefties are good for this type of stupid game. THey stonewall on something stupid, until the POINT is forgotten, and then they act even stupider when the actual POINT is brought back up.



The FACT remains, any deal that would be acceptable to PUTIN, to end the fighting, would have to include Zelenski recognizing Russia territory gains.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Trump is a horrible leader. He is destabilizing the entire planet with his colossal ignorance.

There are a lot of moving parts to world relations. Relationship which were put in place through very hard lessons. Relationships which have been keeping the world's shit together for a long time now, and keeping us on top.

Trump has no idea what he is doing. His idiocy is making us less and less relevant to the rest of the world.

And history shows what follows when a major power loses influence.

No. He just has an excellent wife, who has a genuine interest in helping her husband succeed. Great leaders surround themselves with people who bridge their weaknesses. I'm of the mind that the most critical choice is the spouse.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Facts are not opinions.

…and you imagine that you understand Putin better?

Facts are opinions if they are selectively cited. Almost 10 years on this board, Anton, you should know that by now.

 

[Old Rocks]

Liar...

Liar...

Don't you just wish you forget Trump's love letters to Kim? LOL You Trumpanzees are such a hoot. You love lies and hate the truth.

 

[Old Rocks]

Trump is a businessman----It is true that he is learning statecraft. So far----IMVO---he is
doing a fair job-----better than so many who were in his position for the past 70 years
(names are excluded to protect the dead)

Adam Smith stated very well why businessmen make lousy statesmen. Very simply, businessmen think in terms of profit, and a statesmen thinks in terms of the welfare of his nation and people.

 

[Rambunctious]

Don't you just wish you forget Trump's love letters to Kim? LOL You Trumpanzees are such a hoot. You love lies and hate the truth.

You have Trump on the brain...

 

[Monoculturalist]

The majority of complaints levied against Putin could also be levied against Zelenskyy. Ukraine is not exactly a bastion of democracy, nor is it lacking in corruption.

In a more logical arrangement for American foreign policy, NATO would no longer exist. Ukraine should be Europe's problem, not ours. Europe should have powerful enough militaries to defend itself without our aid.

Instead, we become their policeman at a rather high cost, while Europe is able to spend a lot less on defense and have extensive social systems that we lack here.

 

[Monoculturalist]

Adam Smith stated very well why businessmen make lousy statesmen. Very simply, businessmen think in terms of profit, and a statesmen thinks in terms of the welfare of his nation and people.

Ideally, a statesman would think of his nation and people, but in the West, that's not very common. More often, their statesmen think of personal gain and acquiring more power.

We haven't really had a true "statesman" as president since Eisenhower.

 

[konradv]

The majority of complaints levied against Putin could also be levied against Zelenskyy. Ukraine is not exactly a bastion of democracy, nor is it lacking in corruption.

In a more logical arrangement for American foreign policy, NATO would no longer exist. Ukraine should be Europe's problem, not ours. Europe should have powerful enough militaries to defend itself without our aid.

Instead, we become their policeman at a rather high cost, while Europe is able to spend a lot less on defense and have extensive social systems that we lack here.

America staying out of it was tried twice in the last century, but it didn’t work either time. What makes you think it’s a good plan this time?

 

[Monoculturalist]

America staying out of it was tried twice in the last century, but it didn’t work either time. What makes you think it’s a good plan this time?

Staying out of WW1 would have worked just fine. There was no logical reason to enter that.

We entered WW2 late, but that was a good thing. It gave us time to build up our military. At the start of the war, we weren't prepared for a world war.

Truman (as a Senator) had the best idea for WW2 though. He wanted us to let the Soviets and Nazis fight things out, so that we could defeat whoever was left. Unfortunately, we didn't listen to him.

 

[konradv]

Staying out of WW1 would have worked just fine. There was no logical reason to enter that.

We entered WW2 late, but that was a good thing. It gave us time to build up our military. At the start of the war, we weren't prepared for a world war.

Truman (as a Senator) had the best idea for WW2 though. He wanted us to let the Soviets and Nazis fight things out, so that we could defeat whoever was left. Unfortunately, we didn't listen to him.

We got involved, regardless of your feelings about why. That’s the bottom line, not hypotheticals.

 

[Monoculturalist]

We got involved, regardless of your feelings about why. That’s the bottom line, not hypotheticals.

Sure, but you should probably ask yourself why we got involved. It wasn't a matter of morality, for example.

WW1 was a lesson in why entangling alliances aren't good for anyone other than the military industrial complex.

WW2 was a boon for the American economy, but it came at a pretty high human cost.

Ukraine is thankfully much smaller scale, but it could easily escalate into WW3, which wouldn't be beneficial for most of humanity, although I guess there are a few silver linings to it.

 

[konradv]

Sure, but you should probably ask yourself why we got involved. It wasn't a matter of morality, for example.

WW1 was a lesson in why entangling alliances aren't good for anyone other than the military industrial complex.

WW2 was a boon for the American economy, but it came at a pretty high human cost.

Ukraine is thankfully much smaller scale, but it could easily escalate into WW3, which wouldn't be beneficial for most of humanity, although I guess there are a few silver linings to it.

It’s much more likely to become WW3 if we don’t get involved. There are reasons we haven’t had a WW in 80 years and NATO, which Trump is attempting to burn down, is one of them.

 

[the watcher]

Trump represents the war/banker interests, as do all politicians. "Why of course the people don't want war. Why should some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally, the common people don't want war: neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship ... Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger." -- Leading Nazi leader, Hermann Goering, at the Nuremberg Trials before he was sentenced to death

 

[Monoculturalist]

It’s much more likely to become WW3 if we don’t get involved. There are reasons we haven’t had a WW in 80 years and NATO, which Trump is attempting to burn down, is one of them.

The primary reason a third world war hasn't happened yet is not NATO. It's mutually assured destruction. Nuclear arsenals in the US and USSR kept WW3 from happening during the Cold War period. That did not require NATO, although NATO was useful at that time. After the fall of the USSR, NATO became a lot less useful and allowed Europe to continue to neglect its own defense at our expense.

The primary course of action that could cause WW3 is pushing Russia into being more aggressive. One of the main reasons Russia invaded Ukraine is because we moved towards giving them NATO membership shortly after ousting a regime that was friendly to Russia. If anything, NATO today is more likely to cause WW3 than prevent it.

 

[konradv]

The primary reason a third world war hasn't happened yet is not NATO. It's mutually assured destruction. Nuclear arsenals in the US and USSR kept WW3 from happening during the Cold War period. That did not require NATO, although NATO was useful at that time. After the fall of the USSR, NATO became a lot less useful and allowed Europe to continue to neglect its own defense at our expense.

The primary course of action that could cause WW3 is pushing Russia into being more aggressive. One of the main reasons Russia invaded Ukraine is because we moved towards giving them NATO membership shortly after ousting a regime that was friendly to Russia. If anything, NATO today is more likely to cause WW3 than prevent it.

MAD suppressed the likelihood of nuclear war, but not limited conventional war. That requires a strong NATO, which Trump is burning down and Putin is taking advantage of.

 

[Captain Caveman]

Staying out of WW1 would have worked just fine. There was no logical reason to enter that.

We entered WW2 late, but that was a good thing. It gave us time to build up our military. At the start of the war, we weren't prepared for a world war.

Truman (as a Senator) had the best idea for WW2 though. He wanted us to let the Soviets and Nazis fight things out, so that we could defeat whoever was left. Unfortunately, we didn't listen to him.

Going into wars late seems to be America's strength.

Forget about Truman, maybe the Japs bombing the US was a major reason!!

 

[Monoculturalist]

MAD suppressed the likelihood of nuclear war, but not limited conventional war. That requires a strong NATO, which Trump is burning down and Putin is taking advantage of.

NATO didn't prevent limited conventional war during the Cold War period, so I'm not sure how it would do that today.