Is the universe an intelligence creating machine?

[ding]

Therefore life begins with mind and ends in mind, because the inevitable result of life and time are mind, and with infinite life and infinite time comes infinite mind, ie., God.

I believe the material world was created by Mind, and that Mind has always existed and will always exist.

I believe the universe is an incubator, or more precisely, a womb created for the development of Man to eventually be BORN AGAIN into the Family of God -- Jesus being the "FIRSTBORN OF MANY BRETHREN"

Catholic thought teaches that the mystery of man only makes sense in the light of Christ.

 

[zaangalewa]

... Man is part of God’s creation. God created existence for man to exist. Therefore, God created intelligence in the material world.

So you do think the 100% human being with the name Jesus is not his own creation, because he is 100% god too - but you think the overwhelming intelligence of a hammer is made from god, which falls to the ground because of the gravity of the Earth and the own gravity? That's what you read in our inspirating catechism? How intelligent is this book, when it falls from a table? How intelligent is a piece of paper? How intelligent is ink?

 

[zaangalewa]

Which one?

The catechism of the Catholic Church.

You claim to know what Catholics believe, right?

So have you read the catechism?

You're jumping to conclusions. I'm not Catholic. I'm Protestant (Methodist), so why would I read your cathechism?

Do you know what happened 70 AD now and why it's important?

I don't expect you to know why Pope Francis is wrong. Evos are usually wrong. He's a liberal Pope, but not necessarily a bad one despite being wrong about science like you are. Besides, this topic doesn't belong in Religion and Ethics. It should be Science and Technology.

Francis is a pedophile. The man literally wears the boy lover symbol on his garbs. This is him at world youth day 2019 wearing the exact symbol that the FBI themselves said in 2007 was one of the symbols of the pedophile groups. This symbol is for boy lover. WAKE UP

View attachment 287958

What you do here is defaming hate speech, that's all. You hurt with this "message" even one of the 10 commandements. Nevertheless I agree with your conclusion: Wake up!

The pope is going down

and up - and left and right - and forward-backward: We believe in the triune god, even when we are skiing.

and so are countless other people

Okay - one Pope alone is more easy countable.

the only thing you can do is sit and watch while it happens

Oh - we can do lot of things. Some decades ago someone went on the own hands from Germany to Rome to visit the pope for example.

 

[ding]

... Man is part of God’s creation. God created existence for man to exist. Therefore, God created intelligence in the material world.

So you do think the 100% human being with the name Jesus is not his own creation, because he is 100% god too - but you think the overwhelming intelligence of a hammer is made from god, which falls to the ground because of the gravity of the Earth and the own gravity? That's what you read in our inspirating catechism? How intelligent is this book, when it falls from a table? How intelligent is a piece of paper? How intelligent is ink?

From your own quote.

The Father uncreated; the Son uncreated; and the Holy Ghost uncreated. The Father unlimited; the Son unlimited; and the Holy Ghost unlimited. The Father eternal; the Son eternal; and the Holy Ghost eternal.

 

[ding]

... Man is part of God’s creation. God created existence for man to exist. Therefore, God created intelligence in the material world.

So you do think the 100% human being with the name Jesus is not his own creation, because he is 100% god too - but you think the overwhelming intelligence of a hammer is made from god, which falls to the ground because of the gravity of the Earth and the own gravity? That's what you read in our inspirating catechism? How intelligent is this book, when it falls from a table? How intelligent is a piece of paper? How intelligent is ink?

Also from your own post.

For there is one Person of the Father; another of the Son; and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one; the Glory equal, the Majesty coeternal. Such as the Father is; such is the Son; and such is the Holy Ghost.

 

[ding]

... Man is part of God’s creation. God created existence for man to exist. Therefore, God created intelligence in the material world.

So you do think the 100% human being with the name Jesus is not his own creation, because he is 100% god too - but you think the overwhelming intelligence of a hammer is made from god, which falls to the ground because of the gravity of the Earth and the own gravity? That's what you read in our inspirating catechism? How intelligent is this book, when it falls from a table? How intelligent is a piece of paper? How intelligent is ink?

And yet again from your quote.

The Son is of the Father alone; not made, nor created; but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten; but proceeding.

 

[ding]

The painting was created. The painting was made.

 

[the other mike]

Do you believe that given enough time and the right conditions that intelligence will eventually arise?

Does that include Alabama ?

 

[james bond]

Do you believe that given enough time and the right conditions that intelligence will eventually arise?

That's not what has been prophecised. Given enough time and the right conditions, we'll all die.

If this was the S&T forum, then I would say you know jack shit about entropy.

 

[james bond]

You're jumping to conclusions. I'm not Catholic. I'm Protestant (Methodist), so why would I read your cathechism?

Do you know what happened 70 AD now and why it's important?

I don't expect you to know why Pope Francis is wrong. Evos are usually wrong. He's a liberal Pope, but not necessarily a bad one despite being wrong about science like you are. Besides, this topic doesn't belong in Religion and Ethics. It should be Science and Technology.

I asked you if you had read the catechism because you claim to know what Catholics believe. The catechism states what Catholics believe. It is literally the only place you can go to find out what Catholics believe.

So which of my beliefs are not what Catholics believe?

Where did I claim I know what Catholics believe ? Aren't you the one who's supposed to know with all the pontification you do on R&E (usually over atheists who do not know)? What I said was if you knew your Catholic dogma, then you would be running rings around me. You would be teaching me a lesson. I would be aware of how strong your faith is.

You still do not know what the significance of 70 AD is or else you would've answered my question. It's when the Romans destroyed the Temple of Jerusalem. If you know your Catholic catechism, then you would know its significance.

Let's start with this one.

No. We’re going to start with what I believe and have been arguing. That God created existence and man arose from that creation.

Which means that God created space and time and man evolved from that creation according to the laws of nature.

So is that a Catholic belief or not?

We were discussing Catholic catechism since you brought it up. Where does it say what you just stated? You do not have a source, and it does not sound like anything I ever heard.

I don't think you know much Catholic catechism because if you did, then you would know what the significance of 70 AD meant for the RCC.

I. CATECHESIS ON CREATION

282 Catechesis on creation is of major importance. It concerns the very foundations of human and Christian life: for it makes explicit the response of the Christian faith to the basic question that men of all times have asked themselves:120 "Where do we come from?" "Where are we going?" "What is our origin?" "What is our end?" "Where does everything that exists come from and where is it going?" The two questions, the first about the origin and the second about the end, are inseparable. They are decisive for the meaning and orientation of our life and actions.

283 The question about the origins of the world and of man has been the object of many scientific studies which have splendidly enriched our knowledge of the age and dimensions of the cosmos, the development of life-forms and the appearance of man. These discoveries invite us to even greater admiration for the greatness of the Creator, prompting us to give him thanks for all his works and for the understanding and wisdom he gives to scholars and researchers. With Solomon they can say: "It is he who gave me unerring knowledge of what exists, to know the structure of the world and the activity of the elements. . . for wisdom, the fashioner of all things, taught me."121

284 The great interest accorded to these studies is strongly stimulated by a question of another order, which goes beyond the proper domain of the natural sciences. It is not only a question of knowing when and how the universe arose physically, or when man appeared, but rather of discovering the meaning of such an origin: is the universe governed by chance, blind fate, anonymous necessity, or by a transcendent, intelligent and good Being called "God"? And if the world does come from God's wisdom and goodness, why is there evil? Where does it come from? Who is responsible for it? Is there any liberation from it?

285 Since the beginning the Christian faith has been challenged by responses to the question of origins that differ from its own. Ancient religions and cultures produced many myths concerning origins. Some philosophers have said that everything is God, that the world is God, or that the development of the world is the development of God (Pantheism). Others have said that the world is a necessary emanation arising from God and returning to him. Still others have affirmed the existence of two eternal principles, Good and Evil, Light and Darkness, locked, in permanent conflict (Dualism, Manichaeism). According to some of these conceptions, the world (at least the physical world) is evil, the product of a fall, and is thus to be rejected or left behind (Gnosticism). Some admit that the world was made by God, but as by a watch-maker who, once he has made a watch, abandons it to itself (Deism). Finally, others reject any transcendent origin for the world, but see it as merely the interplay of matter that has always existed (Materialism). All these attempts bear witness to the permanence and universality of the question of origins. This inquiry is distinctively human.

286 Human intelligence is surely already capable of finding a response to the question of origins. The existence of God the Creator can be known with certainty through his works, by the light of human reason,122 even if this knowledge is often obscured and disfigured by error. This is why faith comes to confirm and enlighten reason in the correct understanding of this truth: "By faith we understand that the world was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was made out of things which do not appear."123

287 The truth about creation is so important for all of human life that God in his tenderness wanted to reveal to his People everything that is salutary to know on the subject. Beyond the natural knowledge that every man can have of the Creator,124 God progressively revealed to Israel the mystery of creation. He who chose the patriarchs, who brought Israel out of Egypt, and who by choosing Israel created and formed it, this same God reveals himself as the One to whom belong all the peoples of the earth, and the whole earth itself; he is the One who alone "made heaven and earth".125

288 Thus the revelation of creation is inseparable from the revelation and forging of the covenant of the one God with his People. Creation is revealed as the first step towards this covenant, the first and universal witness to God's all-powerful love.126 And so, the truth of creation is also expressed with growing vigor in the message of the prophets, the prayer of the psalms and the liturgy, and in the wisdom sayings of the Chosen People.127

289 Among all the Scriptural texts about creation, the first three chapters of Genesis occupy a unique place. From a literary standpoint these texts may have had diverse sources. The inspired authors have placed them at the beginning of Scripture to express in their solemn language the truths of creation - its origin and its end in God, its order and goodness, the vocation of man, and finally the drama of sin and the hope of salvation. Read in the light of Christ, within the unity of Sacred Scripture and in the living Tradition of the Church, these texts remain the principal source for catechesis on the mysteries of the "beginning": creation, fall, and promise of salvation.

Catechism of the Catholic Church - The Creator

It doesn't say what you say it does .

I guess we can put you down as doesn't know Catholic catechism? Do you go to church? Did you know that it is a sin for Catholics to miss church? What sacraments have you received? Where does the Bible come in? Have you even read it?

ETA: I found the destruction of the Temple of Jerusalem in CCC 585 and CCC 586. Now, why didn't you know this? It's easy enough to look up if I can find it. What is it's significance? Catholics believe Rome is the new Jerusalem and the new temple will be rebuilt there. As for the rest of the logic, you should be able to tell me, but you can't. Thus, you are a man without much to stand on, i.e. not credible about Catholic catechism nor the Bible.

 

[james bond]

The painting was created. The painting was made.

Where in the Catholic catechism does it say that?

 

[zaangalewa]

... Man is part of God’s creation. God created existence for man to exist. Therefore, God created intelligence in the material world.

So you do think the 100% human being with the name Jesus is not his own creation, because he is 100% god too - but you think the overwhelming intelligence of a hammer is made from god, which falls to the ground because of the gravity of the Earth and the own gravity? That's what you read in our inspirating catechism? How intelligent is this book, when it falls from a table? How intelligent is a piece of paper? How intelligent is ink?

From your own quote.

The Father uncreated; the Son uncreated; and the Holy Ghost uncreated. The Father unlimited; the Son unlimited; and the Holy Ghost unlimited. The Father eternal; the Son eternal; and the Holy Ghost eternal.

"[God] father uncreated, [God] son uncreated, [God] holy ghost uncreated." is not in any contradiction to anything what I said. No - forget you spontanous nonsense answer now. Read the Athanasian creed and the bible - three times in best case. I never said god son is not uncreated when I said Jesus Christ is created. For me the "discussion" about this pseudo-theme is over. But I understand better now people, who do not like to know anything any longer about the Christian religion.

 

[toobfreak]

Do you believe that given enough time and the right conditions that intelligence will eventually arise?

That is a redundant statement. Given enough time and the right conditions, anything will happen. But is intelligence, consciousness, self-awareness simply the result of enough time and the right conditions? Definitely.

Definitely?

The inevitable result of matter is life,

No. Life is impossible ... nearly.

and the inevitable result of life is to survive. Survival is a function of adapting to, tuning to and being best able to anticipate and understand one's surroundings, and the ultimate expression of that and survival is keen comprehension.

Or survival is just simple not to be thrown in a waste paper basket on no special reason. Indirectly I survived for example the holocaust, when I was born after the holocaust. But lots of other unborn entities did not "survive" and were not born. It was never in their hands to "survive". Nevertehels they are not here but you and I are here. Could be a new Aristotlstein or a new Einsteintotle would live otherwise. But they never were born - so they were not able to survive.

Therefore life begins with mind and ends in mind, because the inevitable result of life and time are mind, and with infinite life and infinite time comes infinite mind, ie., God.

But the creation had a begin. It is not infinite.

Sorry, but you just do not get it AT ALL. Life is easy. It is matter that is hard!

 

[toobfreak]

Given enough time and the right conditions, anything will happen.

Not exactly. Anything that is possible will happen.

That is what I said.

 

[toobfreak]

Therefore life begins with mind and ends in mind, because the inevitable result of life and time are mind, and with infinite life and infinite time comes infinite mind, ie., God.

I believe the material world was created by Mind, and that Mind has always existed and will always exist.

Obvious, Nothing can exist in the physical world that does not first exist in the plane if ideas.

 

[the other mike]

Do you believe that given enough time and the right conditions that intelligence will eventually arise?

Let's let the computers decide.

 

[toobfreak]

Therefore life begins with mind and ends in mind, because the inevitable result of life and time are mind, and with infinite life and infinite time comes infinite mind, ie., God.

I believe the material world was created by Mind, and that Mind has always existed and will always exist.

I believe the universe is an incubator, or more precisely, a womb created for the development of Man to eventually be BORN AGAIN into the Family of God -- Jesus being the "FIRSTBORN OF MANY BRETHREN"

Catholic thought teaches that the mystery of man only makes sense in the light of Christ.

Wouldn't that be true of any christian faith?

 

[zaangalewa]

... Man is part of God’s creation. God created existence for man to exist. Therefore, God created intelligence in the material world.

So you do think the 100% human being with the name Jesus is not his own creation, because he is 100% god too - but you think the overwhelming intelligence of a hammer is made from god, which falls to the ground because of the gravity of the Earth and the own gravity? That's what you read in our inspirating catechism? How intelligent is this book, when it falls from a table? How intelligent is a piece of paper? How intelligent is ink?

Also from your own post.

For there is one Person of the Father; another of the Son; and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one; the Glory equal, the Majesty coeternal. Such as the Father is; such is the Son; and such is the Holy Ghost.

I had a reason to quote the complete text of the Athanasian creed.

 

[ding]

... Man is part of God’s creation. God created existence for man to exist. Therefore, God created intelligence in the material world.

So you do think the 100% human being with the name Jesus is not his own creation, because he is 100% god too - but you think the overwhelming intelligence of a hammer is made from god, which falls to the ground because of the gravity of the Earth and the own gravity? That's what you read in our inspirating catechism? How intelligent is this book, when it falls from a table? How intelligent is a piece of paper? How intelligent is ink?

Begotten not made.

 

[ding]

Therefore life begins with mind and ends in mind, because the inevitable result of life and time are mind, and with infinite life and infinite time comes infinite mind, ie., God.

I believe the material world was created by Mind, and that Mind has always existed and will always exist.

I believe the universe is an incubator, or more precisely, a womb created for the development of Man to eventually be BORN AGAIN into the Family of God -- Jesus being the "FIRSTBORN OF MANY BRETHREN"

Catholic thought teaches that the mystery of man only makes sense in the light of Christ.

Wouldn't that be true of any christian faith?

Probably. But I’m not willing to assume or speak for them.