Is the skinny repeal of Obamacare worse for the country than nothing at all?

[AntonToo]

The mandate FORCES expensive coverage on EVERYONE. Half the country only NEEDS a basic catastrophic policy.

**** the mandate

That doesn't make any sense - your problem is with coverage standards, but somehow you conclude that mandate is the issue.

The equation is very simple - if we want people to have good access to healthcare coverage we can't let them pick and choose when to get it. There is just no way around this one.

Let me remind you that Obama was originally AGAINST individual mandate, but when rubber met the road it NEEDED to be part of the bill otherwise the framework falls apart.

 

[martybegan]

Something has to be done, and it's amazing that dems were so gung ho to try Obamacare without really knowing what it would do, and are now crying that "WE DON"T KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN" if even a smidge of reform is tried.

Get the fukattahere Democrats have no problem fixing what is broken, but Republicans can't get off the politico REPEAL schtik that breaks a lot of what DOES work.

Implement single payer is not the same as "fix"

And so far nothing worked for me, my premiums went up, I got shunted to a high deductible plan from a PPO, so I liked my plan and didn't get to keep my plan.

Who besides Bernie and a handful of Californians is pushing single payer?

Democrats have been clear on this - ACA has many shortcomings that need to be fixed and they will work with Republicans if they can get constructive and drop the REPEAL bullshit.

Bullshit. Just like Obama and Hillary were against gay marriage before they supported it, and I was able to keep my plan if I liked it.

The Dem end game has ALWAYS been single payer, it's just that only a few are honest or stupid enough to admit it.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

The mandate FORCES expensive coverage on EVERYONE. Half the country only NEEDS a basic catastrophic policy.

**** the mandate

That doesn't make any sense - your problem is with coverage standards, but somehow you conclude that mandate is the problem.

Because it FORCES me to buy what the government wants me to have not what I deem is needed based on my own medical needs.

I have been to a doctor maybe twice in the last 10 or 12 years. That cost me about 300.00 I am a very health person with few medical needs thankfully.
But the insurance Im being forced to buy since this law went into effect could have cost me tens of thousands if not for the fine option which will be fazed out as an option.

 

[bendog]

The Gop passed with Pence's vote to open debate. I am not really sure why McCain voted for it. They won't have 49 votes out of 52 to gut Medicaid. So I think in the end they can vote to end the mandate. THAT will give Trump something to say "I won." Of course it changes nothing substantively about the HC markets.

McCain correctly pointed out that the way to do this thing is negotiate in committee and on the floor to get 60 votes to pass something that everyone has some skin in so they have to make it work. I realize the vote keeps Trump off the Turtle, but I'm not sure I see it getting the country closer the end zone, as McCain sees the endzone.

That changes nothing?

Lol

The mandate is the basis for the whole law. If he successfully reverses the mandate it is a win. A huge win for all freedom loving Americans.

LOL how the hell is higher deductibles and collapsing individual market "a huge win"?

When people don't have to get insurance untill they are sick, guess what - a lot WON'T. So the insurance pools will be smaller and sicker which will explode the premiums, which in turn will further depress the market and send the individual market into a death spiral.

It's a ******* loss.

The mandate FORCES expensive coverage on EVERYONE. Half the country only NEEDS a basic catastrophic policy.

**** the mandate

Who pays for everyone else's care?

 

[AntonToo]

Something has to be done, and it's amazing that dems were so gung ho to try Obamacare without really knowing what it would do, and are now crying that "WE DON"T KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN" if even a smidge of reform is tried.

Get the fukattahere Democrats have no problem fixing what is broken, but Republicans can't get off the politico REPEAL schtik that breaks a lot of what DOES work.

Implement single payer is not the same as "fix"

And so far nothing worked for me, my premiums went up, I got shunted to a high deductible plan from a PPO, so I liked my plan and didn't get to keep my plan.

Who besides Bernie and a handful of Californians is pushing single payer?

Democrats have been clear on this - ACA has many shortcomings that need to be fixed and they will work with Republicans if they can get constructive and drop the REPEAL bullshit.

Bullshit. Just like Obama and Hillary were against gay marriage before they supported it, and I was able to keep my plan if I liked it.

The Dem end game has ALWAYS been single payer, it's just that only a few are honest or stupid enough to admit it.

Bullshit, moderate Democrats are very skeptical of single payer.

I'm a Democrat and I believe we need to exhaust EVERY market based possibility before we go there.

ACA is a market based reform, it has had success in greatly reducing uninsured rates and we need to keep working on it to reduce it further while getting a better handle on the costs.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

The Gop passed with Pence's vote to open debate. I am not really sure why McCain voted for it. They won't have 49 votes out of 52 to gut Medicaid. So I think in the end they can vote to end the mandate. THAT will give Trump something to say "I won." Of course it changes nothing substantively about the HC markets.

McCain correctly pointed out that the way to do this thing is negotiate in committee and on the floor to get 60 votes to pass something that everyone has some skin in so they have to make it work. I realize the vote keeps Trump off the Turtle, but I'm not sure I see it getting the country closer the end zone, as McCain sees the endzone.

That changes nothing?

Lol

The mandate is the basis for the whole law. If he successfully reverses the mandate it is a win. A huge win for all freedom loving Americans.

LOL how the hell is higher deductibles and collapsing individual market "a huge win"?

When people don't have to get insurance untill they are sick, guess what - a lot WON'T. So the insurance pools will be smaller and sicker which will explode the premiums, which in turn will further depress the market and send the individual market into a death spiral.

It's a ******* loss.

The mandate FORCES expensive coverage on EVERYONE. Half the country only NEEDS a basic catastrophic policy.

**** the mandate

Who pays for everyone else's care?

I take responsibility for my decisions not yours. The middle class & rich pay for the takers. Same As it's always been. Obama care didn't change that lol

 

[Siete]

The Gop passed with Pence's vote to open debate. I am not really sure why McCain voted for it. They won't have 49 votes out of 52 to gut Medicaid. So I think in the end they can vote to end the mandate. THAT will give Trump something to say "I won." Of course it changes nothing substantively about the HC markets.

McCain correctly pointed out that the way to do this thing is negotiate in committee and on the floor to get 60 votes to pass something that everyone has some skin in so they have to make it work. I realize the vote keeps Trump off the Turtle, but I'm not sure I see it getting the country closer the end zone, as McCain sees the endzone.

That changes nothing?

Lol

The mandate is the basis for the whole law. If he successfully reverses the mandate it is a win. A huge win for all freedom loving Americans.

LOL how the hell is higher deductibles and collapsing individual market "a huge win"?

When people don't have to get insurance untill they are sick, guess what - a lot WON'T. So the insurance pools will be smaller and sicker which will explode the premiums, which in turn will further depress the market and send the individual market into a death spiral.

It's a ******* loss.

The mandate FORCES expensive coverage on EVERYONE. Half the country only NEEDS a basic catastrophic policy.

**** the mandate

Who pays for everyone else's care?

you do so deal with it ... Trump is making damn sure you do!!!!!!!!!!!


now lick his ass and thank him.

 

[AntonToo]

The mandate FORCES expensive coverage on EVERYONE. Half the country only NEEDS a basic catastrophic policy.

**** the mandate

That doesn't make any sense - your problem is with coverage standards, but somehow you conclude that mandate is the problem.

Because it FORCES me to buy what the government wants me to have not what I deem is needed based on my own medical needs.

I have been to a doctor maybe twice in the last 10 or 12 years. That cost me about 300.00 I am a very health person with few medical needs thankfully.
But the insurance Im being forced to buy since this law went into effect could have cost me tens of thousands if not for the fine option which will be fazed out as an option.

What the insurance buys everyone equally is SECURITY.

You can be SECURE, that no matter what happens you will get the care you need and not go bankrupt for it.

You WILL be sick someday and some one healthy will be paying for your care - that's the point of a broad risk pool.

I'm young, I'm healthy and like you I use very little healthcare services, but I know it ain't forever and things can change very quickly.

 

[bendog]

The Gop passed with Pence's vote to open debate. I am not really sure why McCain voted for it. They won't have 49 votes out of 52 to gut Medicaid. So I think in the end they can vote to end the mandate. THAT will give Trump something to say "I won." Of course it changes nothing substantively about the HC markets.

McCain correctly pointed out that the way to do this thing is negotiate in committee and on the floor to get 60 votes to pass something that everyone has some skin in so they have to make it work. I realize the vote keeps Trump off the Turtle, but I'm not sure I see it getting the country closer the end zone, as McCain sees the endzone.

That changes nothing?

Lol

The mandate is the basis for the whole law. If he successfully reverses the mandate it is a win. A huge win for all freedom loving Americans.

LOL how the hell is higher deductibles and collapsing individual market "a huge win"?

When people don't have to get insurance untill they are sick, guess what - a lot WON'T. So the insurance pools will be smaller and sicker which will explode the premiums, which in turn will further depress the market and send the individual market into a death spiral.

It's a ******* loss.

The mandate FORCES expensive coverage on EVERYONE. Half the country only NEEDS a basic catastrophic policy.

**** the mandate

Who pays for everyone else's care?

I take responsibility for my decisions not yours. The middle class & rich pay for the takers. Same As it's always been. Obama care didn't change that lol

Oh so you can pay for Parkinson's care in your sixties. You rock grandpa, you be the rich rock star.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

The Gop passed with Pence's vote to open debate. I am not really sure why McCain voted for it. They won't have 49 votes out of 52 to gut Medicaid. So I think in the end they can vote to end the mandate. THAT will give Trump something to say "I won." Of course it changes nothing substantively about the HC markets.

McCain correctly pointed out that the way to do this thing is negotiate in committee and on the floor to get 60 votes to pass something that everyone has some skin in so they have to make it work. I realize the vote keeps Trump off the Turtle, but I'm not sure I see it getting the country closer the end zone, as McCain sees the endzone.

That changes nothing?

Lol

The mandate is the basis for the whole law. If he successfully reverses the mandate it is a win. A huge win for all freedom loving Americans.

LOL how the hell is higher deductibles and collapsing individual market "a huge win"?

When people don't have to get insurance untill they are sick, guess what - a lot WON'T. So the insurance pools will be smaller and sicker which will explode the premiums, which in turn will further depress the market and send the individual market into a death spiral.

It's a ******* loss.

The mandate FORCES expensive coverage on EVERYONE. Half the country only NEEDS a basic catastrophic policy.

**** the mandate

Who pays for everyone else's care?

you do so deal with it ... Trump is making damn sure you do!!!!!!!!!!!


now lick his ass and thank him.

 

[bendog]

The Gop passed with Pence's vote to open debate. I am not really sure why McCain voted for it. They won't have 49 votes out of 52 to gut Medicaid. So I think in the end they can vote to end the mandate. THAT will give Trump something to say "I won." Of course it changes nothing substantively about the HC markets.

McCain correctly pointed out that the way to do this thing is negotiate in committee and on the floor to get 60 votes to pass something that everyone has some skin in so they have to make it work. I realize the vote keeps Trump off the Turtle, but I'm not sure I see it getting the country closer the end zone, as McCain sees the endzone.

That changes nothing?

Lol

The mandate is the basis for the whole law. If he successfully reverses the mandate it is a win. A huge win for all freedom loving Americans.

LOL how the hell is higher deductibles and collapsing individual market "a huge win"?

When people don't have to get insurance untill they are sick, guess what - a lot WON'T. So the insurance pools will be smaller and sicker which will explode the premiums, which in turn will further depress the market and send the individual market into a death spiral.

It's a ******* loss.

The mandate FORCES expensive coverage on EVERYONE. Half the country only NEEDS a basic catastrophic policy.

**** the mandate

Who pays for everyone else's care?

WTF are you posting about? LOL



you do so deal with it ... Trump is making damn sure you do!!!!!!!!!!!


now lick his ass and thank him.

WTF? LOL

 

[martybegan]

Something has to be done, and it's amazing that dems were so gung ho to try Obamacare without really knowing what it would do, and are now crying that "WE DON"T KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN" if even a smidge of reform is tried.

Get the fukattahere Democrats have no problem fixing what is broken, but Republicans can't get off the politico REPEAL schtik that breaks a lot of what DOES work.

Implement single payer is not the same as "fix"

And so far nothing worked for me, my premiums went up, I got shunted to a high deductible plan from a PPO, so I liked my plan and didn't get to keep my plan.

Who besides Bernie and a handful of Californians is pushing single payer?

Democrats have been clear on this - ACA has many shortcomings that need to be fixed and they will work with Republicans if they can get constructive and drop the REPEAL bullshit.

Bullshit. Just like Obama and Hillary were against gay marriage before they supported it, and I was able to keep my plan if I liked it.

The Dem end game has ALWAYS been single payer, it's just that only a few are honest or stupid enough to admit it.

Bullshit, moderate Democrats are very skeptical of single payer.

I'm a Democrat and I believe we need to exhaust EVERY market based possibility before we go there.

ACA is a market based reform, it has had success in greatly reducing uninsured rates and we need to keep working on it to reduce it further while getting a better handle on the costs.

Skeptical of getting people to accept it, but it has always been the end game.

And Moderate Democrats are about as rare as gun control republicans.

And while my $$ subsidizes the uninsured I get fucked with a plan I don't want because my employer provides it, and if I wanted to go to the exchanges, I wouldn't get subsidized.

And I don't even get a ******* thank you from the freeloading assholes who benefit from it.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

The mandate FORCES expensive coverage on EVERYONE. Half the country only NEEDS a basic catastrophic policy.

**** the mandate

That doesn't make any sense - your problem is with coverage standards, but somehow you conclude that mandate is the problem.

Because it FORCES me to buy what the government wants me to have not what I deem is needed based on my own medical needs.

I have been to a doctor maybe twice in the last 10 or 12 years. That cost me about 300.00 I am a very health person with few medical needs thankfully.
But the insurance Im being forced to buy since this law went into effect could have cost me tens of thousands if not for the fine option which will be fazed out as an option.

What the insurance buys everyone equally is SECURITY.

You can be SECURE, that no matter what happens you will get the care you need and not go bankrupt for it.

You WILL be sick someday and some one healthy will be paying for your care - that's the point of a broad risk pool.

Bullshit. The premiums & out of pockets would easily bankrupt half the countryif not more if they ever had to actually use these policies. There is no difference financially in the end.

 

[AntonToo]

Get the fukattahere Democrats have no problem fixing what is broken, but Republicans can't get off the politico REPEAL schtik that breaks a lot of what DOES work.

Implement single payer is not the same as "fix"

And so far nothing worked for me, my premiums went up, I got shunted to a high deductible plan from a PPO, so I liked my plan and didn't get to keep my plan.

Who besides Bernie and a handful of Californians is pushing single payer?

Democrats have been clear on this - ACA has many shortcomings that need to be fixed and they will work with Republicans if they can get constructive and drop the REPEAL bullshit.

Bullshit. Just like Obama and Hillary were against gay marriage before they supported it, and I was able to keep my plan if I liked it.

The Dem end game has ALWAYS been single payer, it's just that only a few are honest or stupid enough to admit it.

Bullshit, moderate Democrats are very skeptical of single payer.

I'm a Democrat and I believe we need to exhaust EVERY market based possibility before we go there.

ACA is a market based reform, it has had success in greatly reducing uninsured rates and we need to keep working on it to reduce it further while getting a better handle on the costs.

Skeptical of getting people to accept it, but it has always been the end game.

And Moderate Democrats are about as rare as gun control republicans.

And while my $$ subsidizes the uninsured I get fucked with a plan I don't want because my employer provides it, and if I wanted to go to the exchanges, I wouldn't get subsidized.

And I don't even get a ******* thank you from the freeloading assholes who benefit from it.

Well here I am, a Democrat, telling you it ain't so, I don't support single payer and I believe this country can have the best healthcare system in the word if we keep working on improving it in good faith instead of politicking about it.

 

[Little-Acorn]

So I think in the end they can vote to end the mandate. THAT will give Trump something to say "I won." Of course it changes nothing substantively about the HC markets.

It would be a MAJOR change, the majorest possible (is that a word?). Because Obamacare was based on forcing everybody into it, and ignoring people's own opinion on whether a hugely expensive Obamacare plan with crushingly high deductibles, was right for their own particular situation. The mandate was a classic example of liberal elites thinking they know better than their subjects, what was best for them... and forcing them into it even if they disagreed. The Mandate represents everything government should NOT be, but frequently is... under big-government tyrants.

If just the mandate is repealed, suddenly people are free to choose whatever health plan is right for THEM. There will be growing pains, because that mandate crushed out of existence most of the plans that insurance companies used to offer, leaving only the few that conformed to Obamacare's dictates (remember "If you like your plan you can keep your plan"? That's how big a lie it was). But those insurance companies can quickly dust off those old policy plans and reinstate them, and design a few more for situations those didn't cover.

And a few million people can wave money in their faces and say, "I want a plan that offers this and that, and doesn't offer the other thing, and if you have such a plan we'll give you all this nice money. What do you say?". That's the kind of thing that can get companies to work hard to please the people and get all that nice money. They can negotiate, make some counter offers, and if enough people like their counteroffers, that money starts to sparkle.

None of those things were possible under Obamacare. In fact, they were forbidden, on pain of paying penalties all over the place. Obamacare destroyed people's freedom ("for their own good", as socialists and other tyrants always say). Repealing "just the mandate" would restore that freedom.

And for people who like their Obamacare plan, the insurance companies are free to keep offering it. But people might be surprised when they find out how much such plans really cost, once the plans have to compete with viable alternatives .

 

[AntonToo]

Bullshit. The premiums & out of pockets would easily bankrupt half the countryif not more if they ever had to actually use these policies. There is no difference financially in the end.

ACA specifically addresses that and caps max out-of-pocket costs. You want reform that lowers max out of pocket? Then the answer is EXACTLY OPPOSITE OF GETTING RID of current protections ACA established., the answer is to strengthen them further.

 

[NYcarbineer]

So I think in the end they can vote to end the mandate. THAT will give Trump something to say "I won." Of course it changes nothing substantively about the HC markets.

It would be a MAJOR change, the majorest possible (is that a word?). Because Obamacare was based on forcing everybody into it, and ignoring people's own opinion on whether a hugely expensive Obamacare plan with crushingly high deductibles, was right for their own particular situation. The mandate was a classic example of liberal elites thinking they know better than their subjects, what was best for them... and forcing them into it even if they disagreed. The Mandate represents everything government should NOT be, but frequently is... under big-government tyrants.

If just the mandate is repealed, suddenly people are free to choose whatever health plan is right for THEM. There will be growing pains, because that mandate crushed out of existence most of the plans that insurance companies used to offer, leaving only the few that conformed to Obamacare's dictates (remember "If you like your plan you can keep your plan"? That's how big a lie it was). But those insurance companies can quickly dust off those old policy plans and reinstate them, and design a few more for situations those didn't cover.

And a few million people can wave money in their faces and say, "I want a plan that offers this and that, and doesn't offer the other thing, and if you have such a plan we'll give you all this nice money. What do you say?". That's the kind of thing that can get companies to work hard to please the people and get all that nice money. They can negotiate, make some counter offers, and if enough people like their counteroffers, that money starts to sparkle.

None of those things were possible under Obamacare. In fact, they were forbidden, on pain of paying penalties all over the place. Obamacare destroyed people's freedom ("for their own good", as socialists and other tyrants always say). Repealing "just the mandate" would restore that freedom.

And for people who like their Obamacare plan, the insurance companies are free to keep offering it. But people might be surprised when they find out how much such plans really cost, once the plans have to compete with viable alternatives .

The mandate was nothing more than a tax break for people who chose to have health insurance,

which, btw, appears in the GOP Trumpcare in a similar way.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Get the fukattahere Democrats have no problem fixing what is broken, but Republicans can't get off the politico REPEAL schtik that breaks a lot of what DOES work.

Implement single payer is not the same as "fix"

And so far nothing worked for me, my premiums went up, I got shunted to a high deductible plan from a PPO, so I liked my plan and didn't get to keep my plan.

Who besides Bernie and a handful of Californians is pushing single payer?

Democrats have been clear on this - ACA has many shortcomings that need to be fixed and they will work with Republicans if they can get constructive and drop the REPEAL bullshit.

Bullshit. Just like Obama and Hillary were against gay marriage before they supported it, and I was able to keep my plan if I liked it.

The Dem end game has ALWAYS been single payer, it's just that only a few are honest or stupid enough to admit it.

Bullshit, moderate Democrats are very skeptical of single payer.

I'm a Democrat and I believe we need to exhaust EVERY market based possibility before we go there.

ACA is a market based reform, it has had success in greatly reducing uninsured rates and we need to keep working on it to reduce it further while getting a better handle on the costs.

Skeptical of getting people to accept it, but it has always been the end game.

And Moderate Democrats are about as rare as gun control republicans.

And while my $$ subsidizes the uninsured I get fucked with a plan I don't want because my employer provides it, and if I wanted to go to the exchanges, I wouldn't get subsidized.

And I don't even get a ******* thank you from the freeloading assholes who benefit from it.

lol you're blaming liberals for your employer provided healthcare?

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Bullshit. The premiums & out of pockets would easily bankrupt half the countryif not more if they ever had to actually use these policies. There is no difference financially in the end.

ACA specifically addresses that and caps max out-of-pocket costs. You want reform that lowers max out of pocket? Then the answer is EXACTLY OPPOSITE OF GETTING RID of current protections ACA established., the answer is to strengthen them further.

Half of this country can not afford an emergency that would cost them 500.00
Out of pockets in the thousands would obviously be devastating.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The Gop passed with Pence's vote to open debate. I am not really sure why McCain voted for it. They won't have 49 votes out of 52 to gut Medicaid. So I think in the end they can vote to end the mandate. THAT will give Trump something to say "I won." Of course it changes nothing substantively about the HC markets.

McCain correctly pointed out that the way to do this thing is negotiate in committee and on the floor to get 60 votes to pass something that everyone has some skin in so they have to make it work. I realize the vote keeps Trump off the Turtle, but I'm not sure I see it getting the country closer the end zone, as McCain sees the endzone.

The skinny repeal is not a repeal.