Is the Quran Gods words?

[BecauseIKnow]

And it is We Who have constructed the heaven with might, and verily, it is We Who are steadily expanding it. (Qur'an, 51:47)

Not your own translation, I think. It is the exact same wording as Harun Yaha.



CJ531: Qur'an on expanding universe

That's the right translation the hanafi agree on? Anything else?

 

[Dajjal]

Is the Quran Gods words?

I say no because God does not exist.

You may be right, or you may be wrong about God. But I am not wrong that he had nothing to do with the quran. Unless he is a mumbling, semi literate, monster.

 

[BecauseIKnow]

Is the Quran Gods words?

I say no because God does not exist.

You may be right, or you may be wrong about God. But I am not wrong that he had nothing to do with the quran. Unless he is a mumbling, semi literate, monster.

Monster? What do you read then the bible or Torah? Or none?

 

[Hollie]

Koran is read in Arabic I thought you were an expert on the Koran but you haven't read it in Arabic? Looooolllll you fool

If you can read Arabic, maybe you can translate verse 51.47 for us.

I do not believe the Muslim excuse that you cannot know what is in the quran unless you can read Arabic. I compare many translations, and I think I can have a pretty good idea what the quran says. If not then what about all the so called muslims who cannot read Arabic.

Presumably they follow a doctrine they cannot know, and by your logic it is muslim converts who are fools for following a religion they cannot understand.

And it is We Who have constructed the heaven with might, and verily, it is We Who are steadily expanding it. (Qur'an, 51:47)

Honestly you should expand your intellectual horizons beyond the ruthlessly plagiarized fundamentalist Christian apologetics of Adnan Oktar? Do you bother to investigate the accuracy of such slogans as "The heaven, We have built it with power. Verily. We are expanding it."?The Koran doesn't "say that".

According to three of the most widely cited English translations, The slogans translate as Uthman writing: 051.047

YUSUFALI: With power and skill did We construct the Firmament: for it is We Who create the vastness of space
PICKTHAL: We have built the heaven with might, and We it is Who make the vast extent (thereof).
SHAKIR: And the heaven, We raised it high with power, and most surely We are the makers of things ample.

Note that none of the translations proposes the concept of an expanding universe. In fact, none of them references a "universe" at all, but rather "heavens" or "firmament", in rather glaring contradiction to your allegation

 

[Dajjal]

Is the Quran Gods words?

I say no because God does not exist.

You may be right, or you may be wrong about God. But I am not wrong that he had nothing to do with the quran. Unless he is a mumbling, semi literate, monster.

Monster? What do you read then the bible or Torah? Or none?

The Bible is full of horrible tales, and it is full of flaws. I am not a Jew or a Christian so that does not bother me. But the Bible is rich in narrative, and tells stories with a beginning, middle and end.

But the quran is a disjointed, mumbling ,repetitive ramble, that only refers to bible stories and does not explain them. See my piece on sura 12, the story of Joseph, which is in the first few pages of this thread. There is no narrative, and sura 12 is inexplicable unless you first read Genesis. There is no more clear evidence that the quran is plagiarism from the bible than sura 12.

 

[BecauseIKnow]

You may be right, or you may be wrong about God. But I am not wrong that he had nothing to do with the quran. Unless he is a mumbling, semi literate, monster.

Monster? What do you read then the bible or Torah? Or none?

The Bible is full of horrible tales, and it is full of flaws. I am not a Jew or a Christian so that does not bother me. But the Bible is rich in narrative, and tells stories with a beginning, middle and end.

But the quran is a disjointed, mumbling ,repetitive ramble, that only refers to bible stories and does not explain them. See my piece on sura 12, the story of Joseph, which is in the first few pages of this thread. There is no narrative, and sura 12 is inexplicable unless you first read Genesis. There is no more clear evidence that the quran is plagiarism from the bible than sura 12.

There you go you said it there the bible is stories, the Koran is command from God no wonder everybody is converting to Islam

 

[Dajjal]

There you go you said it there the bible is stories, the Koran is command from God no wonder EVERYBODY is converting to Islam

Er! not everybody. I for one have already sealed my fate. I would sooner take my chances of burning in hellfire for eternity, than convert to Islam.

 

[BecauseIKnow]

There you go you said it there the bible is stories, the Koran is command from God no wonder EVERYBODY is converting to Islam

Er! not everybody. I for one have already sealed my fate. I would sooner take my chances of burning in hellfire for eternity, than convert to Islam.

That's fine yo haha

 

[Dajjal]

That's fine yo haha

You don't really want me to burn in eternal hellfire, do you?

If at some time after we have both died, and you are in Allahs heaven, being waited on by wide eyed youths, while sipping wine that does not get you drunk, will you look down on me burning in hell, and if I am weak enough to ask you for a glass of water, will you call out, "it is forbidden for unbelievers"?

See the quran, sura 7.44 and 7.50 which tells you to do exactly that.

IF GOD INSPIRED THIS TRASH WE ARE ALL IN TROUBLE.

Believers and unbelievers both are at the mercy of a deranged sadistic monster God.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Wrong Koran is divine. And of course you read it after 2001 to find anything you felt contradicted your thoughts and rejected it. So now you don't know wack

The Koran is mostly plagiarized. Jewish scholars were pressed into writing it, so lifted liberally from the Torah and other Jewish texts.

I started looking at Islam in about 1993, after Muslim terrorists had attacked the WTC the first time. Since that time I've become very knowledgeable about the Koran, Hadiths and the life of the Warlord Muhammad (MHBIH).

A few facts, Islam is an idolator religion. All Muslims, Shiite and Sunni, bow to the Idol of Allah in the Kaaba, 5 times each day. This is nothing new, the idol predates Islam by a full millennium. The idol, the Phallic or Black stone, is the traditional home of the djin Hubal; often termed Al-Ilah (the god) who is the moon god of the Mesopotamian Parthenon. Muhammad adopted this idol and the djin of the idol then promoted him to supreme being.

Hubal in Semitic Hebrew is called Ba’al, Bel, and Bol. Each year, hundreds of thousands of Muslims perform the Hajj and seek to kiss the idol of Allah ne Ba'al.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Hey...............even the Muslims don't believe the Quaran is the actual Word of God, because it states quite plainly that most of what is in it were quotes from Mohammed.

No....he preached what was in the Koran and what God told him to preach that's why his quotes sound similiar, and he didn't write the Koran how would he know how a sperm becomes in a womb, and How would he know the universe is expanding? In the Koran it says God is expanding the universe so please try harder next time this is rubbish

How exactly DOES a "sperm becomes in a womb"? Typing drunk again?

As far as the Universe expanding? There are several different theories on that, and an expanding Universe is just one of them.

 

[Dajjal]

Here are some of the Quranic verses inciting Muslims to fight unbelievers. Fight in the way of Allah, because fighting is prescribed for them. And die for Allah so they will be rewarded in heaven. But do not turn back in battle, or they will go to hell.

IS THIS A MESSAGE FROM GOD? Or is it, as I strongly suspect, a load of crap from a lying bandit.

2.216 Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But God knoweth, and ye know not.

4.74 Let those fight in the cause of God Who sell the life of this world for the hereafter. To him who fighteth in the cause of God,- whether he is slain or gets victory - Soon shall We give him a reward of great (value).

4.76 Those who believe fight in the cause of God, and those who reject Faith Fight in the cause of Evil: So fight ye against the friends of Satan: feeble indeed is the cunning of Satan.

9.29 Fight those who believe not in God nor the Last Day, nor hold that
forbidden which hath been forbidden by God and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

9.123 O ye who believe! fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you: and know that God is with those who fear Him.


48.16 Say to the desert Arabs who lagged behind: "Ye shall be summoned (to fight) against a people given to vehement war: then shall ye fight, or they shall submit. Then if ye show obedience, God will grant you a goodly reward, but if ye turn back as ye did before, He will punish you with a grievous Penalty."

 

[ecks_why]

Here are some of the Quranic verses inciting Muslims to fight unbelievers...

yes i agree the koran is a horrible book !! i poked thru this thread, much good info and some banned handles so now i know what to avoid

you've already seen answering-islam & faithfreedom sites, how about skeptics ?
skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran

it has lists of categorized surahs, injustice, intolerance, cruelty good for doing basic comparisons like...

some round numbers for holy texts needed for comparing islam & xnity

koran 250 pages = 15%
sira 420 pages = 25%
hadith 1000 pages = 60% (guessing why not 1000 ? 2000 ? which sira/hadith ?)
1670 pages total

old tst 900 pages = 75%
new tst 300 pages 25%
1200 pages total

314 skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html
539 skepticsannotatedbible.com/inj/long.html
700 skepticsannotatedbible.com/int/long.html

531 skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/cruelty/long.html
763 skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/inj/long.html
543 skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/int/long.html

adding up these lists get

bible - 1553 verses 1200 pages about 1.3 verses/page
koran - 1837 verses 250 pages about 7.3 verses/page

but there is no "koran only" movement for islam the mooselimbs also always consider the sirahs and hadiths as basic holy texts. of course there are lots of different s/h's but mainstream s/h easily adds another 1400 pages.

using the same occurance rate for the koran (probably reasonable because again mohamhead was a murdering warlord etc) at 7.3 verses/page and adding 1400 pages from s/h adds over 10,000 negative verses so the new numbers are

old tst + new tst bible = 1553 negative verses for 1200 pages
koran + siras + hadiths = 12,000+ negative verses for 1670 pages

so even a basic analysis of these holy texts shows islam to be quite a violent ideology and much more so than xnity

 

[Liability]

The Qur'an is God's word only if God is a psychotic self-contradictory asshole.

 

[psed007]

Can not be. Mohammed never spoke to G'd only to an angel. You will find no passage where G'd is speaking directly with Mohammed.

 

[Dajjal]

psed007
The quran is supposedly dictated to Muhammad, by the angel Gabriel, who gave it as a message from God. It often makes statements that start with WE, meaning God said this.

In actual fact the bible only refers to Gabriel as a messenger that announced the coming of John the baptist, and Jesus. The angel Gabriel gives no message in the bible from God, other than those two announcements.
But it is easy to see where Muhammad got the idea of claiming that Gabriel gave him messages from God. Muhammad also confuses the angel Gabriel with the holy spirit.

 

[psed007]

psed007
The quran is supposedly dictated to Muhammad, by the angel Gabriel, who gave it as a message from God. It often makes statements that start with WE, meaning God said this.

In actual fact the bible only refers to Gabriel as a messenger that announced the coming of John the baptist, and Jesus. The angel Gabriel gives no message in the bible from God, other than those two announcements.
But it is easy to see where Muhammad got the idea of claiming that Gabriel gave him messages from God. Muhammad also confuses the angel Gabriel with the holy spirit.

Thx, 4 reply LOL This is even more confusing than I thought That means g'd said to gabirel what to tell mohammed ! Why g'd should do that ?!?! It is completely insane that approx. 1.4 Billion believers believe that ?!?! After the story of us in the OT it is a wonder and not how we could make it so far ! Same bullshit since the beginning

 

[ABikerSailor]

psed007
The quran is supposedly dictated to Muhammad, by the angel Gabriel, who gave it as a message from God. It often makes statements that start with WE, meaning God said this.

In actual fact the bible only refers to Gabriel as a messenger that announced the coming of John the baptist, and Jesus. The angel Gabriel gives no message in the bible from God, other than those two announcements.
But it is easy to see where Muhammad got the idea of claiming that Gabriel gave him messages from God. Muhammad also confuses the angel Gabriel with the holy spirit.

Thx, 4 reply LOL This is even more confusing than I thought That means g'd said to gabirel what to tell mohammed ! Why g'd should do that ?!?! It is completely insane that approx. 1.4 Billion believers believe that ?!?! After the story of us in the OT it is a wonder and not how we could make it so far ! Same bullshit since the beginning

Hey.............at least Moses brought the tablets down from the mountain top.

Mohammed just gave us hearsay and his followers did the same once removed.

 

[Avatar4321]

Thx, 4 reply LOL This is even more confusing than I thought That means g'd said to gabirel what to tell mohammed ! Why g'd should do that ?!?! It is completely insane that approx. 1.4 Billion believers believe that ?!?! After the story of us in the OT it is a wonder and not how we could make it so far ! Same bullshit since the beginning

While I am certainly not a believer in Islam, I dont exactly see what's insane about God giving a message to an angel to take to man as He has done just that throughout human history.

 

[Avatar4321]

Hey.............at least Moses brought the tablets down from the mountain top.

Mohammed just gave us hearsay and his followers did the same once removed.

The problem of course being Arabic wasnt a written language then. Tablets would have been useless. The Quran is a recitation of what Mohammad was supposedly told.

Quite honestly, I would be open to consider Mohammad actually had experiences with God. Problem is after his death the "Rightly guided" Caliphis started writing down the revelations and compiled them into the Quran specifically because false revelations were supposedly going around. Its quite possible that if Mohammad was inspired, that the Quoran was corrupted in compiling because the Caliphs replaced the revelations with what they wanted.

Of course, it's all speculation. Which is specifically why the only way to know the things of God and what is God's word is to appeal to God Himself and find out from Him. Which is good to do anyway, since the scriptures are a tool for helping us hear the voice of the Lord for ourselves and to help us reenter His presence.