Debate Now Is the Cultural Paradigm Shifting Along with the Demographic Changes?

[EvilEyeFleegle]

The question:

As we move towards a "White Minority" country will our cultural paradigm shift significantly?

Or...will the prevailing mainstream culture prove strong enough to shape the new demographics to conform to the "old" values?

Is a non-white majority America still "America"?

Hmmm..rules:

Civility

Address the questions

Explain your point

The Demographic Change will happen inside of the Democratic Party first.
The old corrupt racist demagogues such as Hillary, Pelosi, Schumer and Warren in the Democratic Party are going to be replaced by young dumb left wing racist like Alexandria Cortez,
The glue that holds the Democratic Party's coalition together is made of hate.
The Democrats make politics about race because they are racist.
If you want to see the future of America take a look at the countries where the "new demographics" are comming from.

This is not the politics forum...

This is not the place to vent about the evil Democrats---if you took the trouble to read the preceding posts you might see that your post does not fit in..either as to the topic or as to tone.

If you have some points to be made..please do so cogently...and with some degree of regard as to the topic....thank you.

 

[Wuwei]

The right however does not control the unions, including the national teachers' union, is mostly unwelcome in academics theses days, is mostly unwelcome in most scientific institutions, is mostly unwelcome in the entertainment industry, does not control ANY of the major social media entities, and is poorly represented among the mainstream media. That gives the angry, vindictive (i.e. extremist) left a much MUCH larger forum and MUCH more power to distribute that anger and vindictiveness than what the more extremist right has access to.

That the right is seen as having any voice at all is pretty remarkable but because so many respond to the values and agenda of the right, that also speaks to its importance in the American culture.

That the Left fails to see, understand, or appreciate that has been affecting results at the ballot box, at least until now. We'll see how it goes in November.

But it definitely has had a negative effect on our culture.

I really don't understand the reasoning behind some of your points. When you talk of the right and left, both sides can be subdivided into R/L politicians, R/L media and the masses of R/L people, etc. I don't know if you distinguish between them or not. I'm middle left, and I believe some principles of both R and L. Nobody here sees the middle ground..

I am able to engage in friendly conversation on principles with strong conservatives in real life, but when I see posts like #55 above, I see that debate on this forum is futile. I think that you are seeing things too much in black and white. My feeling is that the left and right masses are being controlled by the wealthy -- lobbyists, heavy donors, mega-corporations. To me citizens United is a tragedy, and the name is even ironic. Both R and L masses of people should demand that money be taken out of politics.

Edit: sorry I posted this before I saw the previous post.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

Yes, a fuzzy but persistent and pervasive extremism--mostly from the Left but the Right cannot fully escape that characterization either--has so changed American culture that we are in serious danger of losing it altogether.

That is where I would take issue. The Left see the extremism as mostly from the Right. But it is no wonder it is seen differently, because as I said there is a cultural chasm.

One problem is the various media programs are bipolar. Confirmation bias abounds. At this point I see no way out of the extremism.

I posted this on another thread.

If you have a Google account, do not surf the web while signed in even though they say it will be more fulfilling experience for you. They will collect every web site you go to and every product you look at and sell it to scads of ad firms. The browsers, Chrome, Google, and Internet explorer have a direct ability to pigeonhole you and filter your searches to what demographic they think you are. (I use DuckDuckGo.com as a default for every search I do. Non-tracking. Take a look)

To me that is a problem that is widening the left/right cultural divide. If they see you looking at Fox news on youtube, they will focus on conservative sites in any search you do, and promote bias confirmation. Of course a similar thing happens if you watch MSNBC on youtube. If you want an objective view of what's happening in the news, don't sign in and let them know your politics.

I hope I'm not straying too far from the OP topic.

The right however does not control the unions, including the national teachers' union, is mostly unwelcome in academics theses days, is mostly unwelcome in most scientific institutions, is mostly unwelcome in the entertainment industry, does not control ANY of the major social media entities, and is poorly represented among the mainstream media. That gives the angry, vindictive (i.e. extremist) left a much MUCH larger forum and MUCH more power to distribute that anger and vindictiveness than what the more extremist right has access to.

That the right is seen as having any voice at all is pretty remarkable but because so many respond to the values and agenda of the right, that also speaks to its importance in the American culture.

That the Left fails to see, understand, or appreciate that has been affecting results at the ballot box, at least until now. We'll see how it goes in November.

But it definitely has had a negative effect on our culture.

I wonder..does the Left..or the Right...control anything? Influence, sure..I see that. But control? Being widely read..I find all voices are available...for the discerning reader. I think that Wuwei hit the nail on the head..confirmation bias. People today actively seek it..and those who hold power see it as a very handy leash indeed.

BTW..I know..personally..many conservatives in academia--I think that many of the ideals labeled 'liberal' are shared by many conservatives--but they get lost in the wording..and in the fear, valid or not, that they will be mocked by their peers, if it were known. The same holds true for liberals who have conservative leanings..but don't know it.

No one has any time for the pragmatic politician with a heart. He/she are frozen out of the political process....while the panderers and manipulators are celebrated.

As for the voice of the right..one need only look to talk radio and sites such as this..to see that there is indeed a voice and a loud one, at that.

Oh, and the scientific community? Well..my people, as it were..have a lot of outright contempt for those who politicize science..Left or Right. Right or wrong..the far right is seen as anti-science--deniers of fact and outright anti-intellectual. The Left is no better..with half-baked theories being accepted as known fact. Politics in general get short shrift...but I do know conservatives in the hard sciences...but to a man or woman..they accept climate change as real..even though they may argue as to origins. Most of the rest of us are busy thinking of ways to adapt to coming times...how being more important than why.

 

[Foxfyre]

The right however does not control the unions, including the national teachers' union, is mostly unwelcome in academics theses days, is mostly unwelcome in most scientific institutions, is mostly unwelcome in the entertainment industry, does not control ANY of the major social media entities, and is poorly represented among the mainstream media. That gives the angry, vindictive (i.e. extremist) left a much MUCH larger forum and MUCH more power to distribute that anger and vindictiveness than what the more extremist right has access to.

That the right is seen as having any voice at all is pretty remarkable but because so many respond to the values and agenda of the right, that also speaks to its importance in the American culture.

That the Left fails to see, understand, or appreciate that has been affecting results at the ballot box, at least until now. We'll see how it goes in November.

But it definitely has had a negative effect on our culture.

I really don't understand the reasoning behind some of your points. When you talk of the right and left, both sides can be subdivided into R/L politicians, R/L media and the masses of R/L people, etc. I don't know if you distinguish between them or not. I'm middle left, and I believe some principles of both R and L. Nobody here sees the middle ground..

I am able to engage in friendly conversation on principles with strong conservatives in real life, but when I see posts like #55 above, I see that debate on this forum is futile. I think that you are seeing things too much in black and white. My feeling is that the left and right masses are being controlled by the wealthy -- lobbyists, heavy donors, mega-corporations. To me citizens United is a tragedy, and the name is even ironic. Both R and L masses of people should demand that money be taken out of politics.

Edit: sorry I posted this before I saw the previous post.

If you can rebut my point of view go for it. I have not been uncivil to anybody here regardless of their point of view, nor have I denigrated anybody;s argument. And the reasoning behind my post is that I believe what I said to be true. And I'm pretty sure I can back it up with credible sources if it becomes sufficienty important to do so.

 

[Foxfyre]

Yes, a fuzzy but persistent and pervasive extremism--mostly from the Left but the Right cannot fully escape that characterization either--has so changed American culture that we are in serious danger of losing it altogether.

That is where I would take issue. The Left see the extremism as mostly from the Right. But it is no wonder it is seen differently, because as I said there is a cultural chasm.

One problem is the various media programs are bipolar. Confirmation bias abounds. At this point I see no way out of the extremism.

I posted this on another thread.

If you have a Google account, do not surf the web while signed in even though they say it will be more fulfilling experience for you. They will collect every web site you go to and every product you look at and sell it to scads of ad firms. The browsers, Chrome, Google, and Internet explorer have a direct ability to pigeonhole you and filter your searches to what demographic they think you are. (I use DuckDuckGo.com as a default for every search I do. Non-tracking. Take a look)

To me that is a problem that is widening the left/right cultural divide. If they see you looking at Fox news on youtube, they will focus on conservative sites in any search you do, and promote bias confirmation. Of course a similar thing happens if you watch MSNBC on youtube. If you want an objective view of what's happening in the news, don't sign in and let them know your politics.

I hope I'm not straying too far from the OP topic.

The right however does not control the unions, including the national teachers' union, is mostly unwelcome in academics theses days, is mostly unwelcome in most scientific institutions, is mostly unwelcome in the entertainment industry, does not control ANY of the major social media entities, and is poorly represented among the mainstream media. That gives the angry, vindictive (i.e. extremist) left a much MUCH larger forum and MUCH more power to distribute that anger and vindictiveness than what the more extremist right has access to.

That the right is seen as having any voice at all is pretty remarkable but because so many respond to the values and agenda of the right, that also speaks to its importance in the American culture.

That the Left fails to see, understand, or appreciate that has been affecting results at the ballot box, at least until now. We'll see how it goes in November.

But it definitely has had a negative effect on our culture.

I wonder..does the Left..or the Right...control anything? Influence, sure..I see that. But control? Being widely read..I find all voices are available...for the discerning reader. I think that Wuwei hit the nail on the head..confirmation bias. People today actively seek it..and those who hold power see it as a very handy leash indeed.

BTW..I know..personally..many conservatives in academia--I think that many of the ideals labeled 'liberal' are shared by many conservatives--but they get lost in the wording..and in the fear, valid or not, that they will be mocked by their peers, if it were known. The same holds true for liberals who have conservative leanings..but don't know it.

No one has any time for the pragmatic politician with a heart. He/she are frozen out of the political process....while the panderers and manipulators are celebrated.

As for the voice of the right..one need only look to talk radio and sites such as this..to see that there is indeed a voice and a loud one, at that.

Oh, and the scientific community? Well..my people, as it were..have a lot of outright contempt for those who politicize science..Left or Right. Right or wrong..the far right is seen as anti-science--deniers of fact and outright anti-intellectual. The Left is no better..with half-baked theories being accepted as known fact. Politics in general get short shrift...but I do know conservatives in the hard sciences...but to a man or woman..they accept climate change as real..even though they may argue as to origins. Most of the rest of us are busy thinking of ways to adapt to coming times...how being more important than why.

When I make generalized observations they are generalized. There are always exceptions. But as I posted to Wuwei, I am pretty sure I can support my observations with credible sources if it should become important enough to do so

I would be the first to acknowledge that those who lean left are not going to see it as I see it. And probably are also confident in their point of view.

 

[Wuwei]

The right however does not control the unions, including the national teachers' union, is mostly unwelcome in academics theses days, is mostly unwelcome in most scientific institutions, is mostly unwelcome in the entertainment industry, does not control ANY of the major social media entities, and is poorly represented among the mainstream media. That gives the angry, vindictive (i.e. extremist) left a much MUCH larger forum and MUCH more power to distribute that anger and vindictiveness than what the more extremist right has access to.

That the right is seen as having any voice at all is pretty remarkable but because so many respond to the values and agenda of the right, that also speaks to its importance in the American culture.

That the Left fails to see, understand, or appreciate that has been affecting results at the ballot box, at least until now. We'll see how it goes in November.

But it definitely has had a negative effect on our culture.

I really don't understand the reasoning behind some of your points. When you talk of the right and left, both sides can be subdivided into R/L politicians, R/L media and the masses of R/L people, etc. I don't know if you distinguish between them or not. I'm middle left, and I believe some principles of both R and L. Nobody here sees the middle ground..

I am able to engage in friendly conversation on principles with strong conservatives in real life, but when I see posts like #55 above, I see that debate on this forum is futile. I think that you are seeing things too much in black and white. My feeling is that the left and right masses are being controlled by the wealthy -- lobbyists, heavy donors, mega-corporations. To me citizens United is a tragedy, and the name is even ironic. Both R and L masses of people should demand that money be taken out of politics.

Edit: sorry I posted this before I saw the previous post.

If you can rebut my point of view go for it. I have not been uncivil to anybody here regardless of their point of view, nor have I denigrated anybody;s argument. And the reasoning behind my post is that I believe what I said to be true. And I'm pretty sure I can back it up with credible sources if it becomes sufficienty important to do so.

I don't have any kids so I don't keep up on the teachers union or education problems except where I read about it in the local paper – barely subsistence level in pay, and unfair advancement based on their student test scores.

I know little about why you think left extremism affects scientific institutions, the entertainment industry, or social media entities or exactly how it matters.

As far as news media, I'm sure MSNBC pundits turn your stomach as much as Fox pundits turn mine. I don't watch either. I have no opinion on the other media except that one of the fairest is NPR and my local news station.

And yes there are all kinds of disagreements on social issues such as abortion, welfare, etc.

But to me there is a much larger issue. It is how the wealthy influence society. I referred to that in my prior post but you didn't respond. The issues of the OP, demographics changing culture, misses many important overriding things that are changing society.

Let me repeat it here: lobbyists, heavy donors, mega-corporations, and Citizens United all enable big secret money to control the government. Money can and does buy elections, and keep those that accept it in power. The executive branch is populated with too many billionaires. Sure, if we don't like it vote them out. But the campaign process is as vicious as the people on the USMB. Dirty campaigning with big bucks works. Both left and right are guilty. The people fall for memes from the wealthy that are repeated loud and often by many pundits. These memes are manipulating culture more than demographics. This country will turn into an Oligarchy or has already, depending on how you define it.

If we really want a populist democracy we are doing it wrong.

This is going outside the OP which is concerned about the demographic influence, and I apologize for highjacking it. EvilEyeFleegle if you want me to end it just say the word.

 

[Asclepias]

The question:

As we move towards a "White Minority" country will our cultural paradigm shift significantly?

Or...will the prevailing mainstream culture prove strong enough to shape the new demographics to conform to the "old" values?

Is a non-white majority America still "America"?

Hmmm..rules:

Civility

Address the questions

Explain your point

As we move towards a "White Minority" country will our cultural paradigm shift significantly?

Or...will the prevailing mainstream culture prove strong enough to shape the new demographics to conform to the "old" values?

I will say the answer is no. I dont see a drastic change for a number of reasons.
1. The "culture" is made up of things taken from different cultures already.
2. The concepts of freedom, democracy, etc are not white concepts. Matter of fact whites borrowed those concepts from other cultures.
3. The only thing that could possibly change is that we get better.

Is a non-white majority America still "America"?

Yes. Whites have never been the ones that made america america. One can say that without the Black race america would still be a penal colony.

 

[jwoodie]

The cultural shifts which have been taking place in America have very little to do with its racial or ethnic composition. In fact, the diversity of cultures led to a unique consensus about what it meant to be an American. As a result, we were to come together to fight two world wars and finally outlaw legal discrimination against minority populations.

However, this consensus has been unraveling over the past 50 years. Perhaps due to the unprecedented economic benefits we inherited after WW2, we started believing that any problem could be solved by throwing enough money at it. The most egregious examples of this have been social welfare programs which have created generations of dysfunctional family units.

Compounding this problem has been a concerted effort by radical leftists to infiltrate our educational institutions and media for the purpose of undermining America and its former consensus on societal values. Their main achievement so far has been to convince a sizeable minority of Americans that their country is not a land of freedom and opportunity, but rather a vast right-wing conspiracy to deny them their rights and keep them in poverty.

 

[Asclepias]

The cultural shifts which have been taking place in America have very little to do with its racial or ethnic composition. In fact, the diversity of cultures led to a unique consensus about what it meant to be an American. As a result, we were to come together to fight two world wars and finally outlaw legal discrimination against minority populations.

However, this consensus has been unraveling over the past 50 years. Perhaps due to the unprecedented economic benefits we inherited after WW2, we started believing that any problem could be solved by throwing enough money at it. The most egregious examples of this have been social welfare programs which have created generations of dysfunctional family units.

Compounding this problem has been a concerted effort by radical leftists to infiltrate our educational institutions and media for the purpose of undermining America and its former consensus on societal values. Their main achievement so far has been to convince a sizeable minority of Americans that their country is not a land of freedom and opportunity, but rather a vast right-wing conspiracy to deny them their rights and keep them in poverty.

Its kind of amusing and a little bit sad to read the thoughts of some whites. This country was founded on racism and this has not abated to date. The face of racism may have changed but make no mistake it was here at the beginning, prevalent during the middle, and will probably result in a civil war in the end. The mantra from whites has always been "be patient" when discussing full equality/freedom/justice etc. The amusing part is your comment about coming together to fight two world wars. We didnt come together. Did you catch amnesia or do you really not remember the racism displayed by the US towards Black soldiers and officers?. The sad part is watching white folks and realizing they will never get it.

Segregation in the Armed Forces During World War II | African American History Blog | The African Americans: Many Rivers to Cross

 

[jwoodie]

Its kind of amusing and a little bit sad to read the thoughts of some whites. This country was founded on racism and this has not abated to date. The face of racism may have changed but make no mistake it was here at the beginning, prevalent during the middle, and will probably result in a civil war in the end. The mantra from whites has always been "be patient" when discussing full equality/freedom/justice etc. The amusing part is your comment about coming together to fight two world wars. We didnt come together. Did you catch amnesia or do you really not remember the racism displayed by the US towards Black soldiers and officers?. The sad part is watching white folks and realizing they will never get it.

It was my understanding that Black Americans were just as patriotic as White Americans in supporting and fighting World War II, despite the discrimination they were subjected to.

Thanks for clearing up that misconception.

 

[Asclepias]

Its kind of amusing and a little bit sad to read the thoughts of some whites. This country was founded on racism and this has not abated to date. The face of racism may have changed but make no mistake it was here at the beginning, prevalent during the middle, and will probably result in a civil war in the end. The mantra from whites has always been "be patient" when discussing full equality/freedom/justice etc. The amusing part is your comment about coming together to fight two world wars. We didnt come together. Did you catch amnesia or do you really not remember the racism displayed by the US towards Black soldiers and officers?. The sad part is watching white folks and realizing they will never get it.

It was my understanding that Black Americans were just as patriotic as White Americans in supporting and fighting World War II, despite the discrimination they were subjected to.

Thanks for clearing up that misconception.

Wow! I say white americans discriminated against Blacks and your answer is that you thought Blacks were just as patriotic in spite of the racism? Whites think in a disjointed, off rhythm, fashion similar to how they dance.

 

[jwoodie]

Wow! I say white americans discriminated against Blacks and your answer is that you thought Blacks were just as patriotic in spite of the racism? Whites think in a disjointed, off rhythm, fashion similar to how they dance.

Wow! I said:

The cultural shifts which have been taking place in America have very little to do with its racial or ethnic composition. In fact, the diversity of cultures led to a unique consensus about what it meant to be an American. As a result, we were to come together to fight two world wars and finally outlaw legal discrimination against minority populations.

and your answer is that white americans discriminated against blacks?

P.S. Rhythm is no replacement for ordered thinking.

 

[Asclepias]

Wow! I say white americans discriminated against Blacks and your answer is that you thought Blacks were just as patriotic in spite of the racism? Whites think in a disjointed, off rhythm, fashion similar to how they dance.

Wow! I said:

The cultural shifts which have been taking place in America have very little to do with its racial or ethnic composition. In fact, the diversity of cultures led to a unique consensus about what it meant to be an American. As a result, we were to come together to fight two world wars and finally outlaw legal discrimination against minority populations.

and your answer is that white americans discriminated against blacks?

P.S. Rhythm is no replacement for ordered thinking.

Yes. I disagreed it had very little to do with race and spelled it out for you why you were wrong.

No rhythm = no ordered thinking.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

Well..this thread went a bit South..no pun intended...LOL!
Asclepias...your monomaniacal focus on racism..as you see it..is well known--it is logically unsupportable..unless one accepts your premise--that racism was and is the underlying gestalt of the American experience. I do not..mostly because it is historically unsupportable. Racist statements like "Whites think in a disjointed, off rhythm, fashion similar to how they dance.", are as true as "Blacks can't hold a real job and they have no sense of family--they invented 'baby-mama'"--they don't help your case. The language of racism is always ugly..and I have never met, read nor listened to a racist that did not strike me as dumb as dirt within 5 minutes. I find it interesting that both sides of the argument focus of the 'left-behinds' of both cultures..while the successful people of all colors just keep on keepin' on.

BTW..America was NEVER a penal colony--some convicts were transported to some colonies--mostly Georgia and points south. Unless you count Bond-servants--mostly white debtors..and transportees..who were not sent here to serve a sentence, but as a result of running afoul of the law..not hard to do..in England of the time. For a penal colony..see Australia..and see the effects of the colony on the indigenous Black culture.

If I were in a baiting kind of mood..I might ask you just what do you think the future of the black race..that portion that was enslaved in America, would have been..had that never occurred? Do you posit a African utopia..in Africa? To bring it back to demographics...what place would African immigrants hold here..if any? Do you see any positives in the influence of white civilization of black culture...language..literacy...economic empowerment? I see many positives for the White culture..both economically and culturally. Do you admit that the reverse also holds true? There is a cogent argument..ugly, but cogent..that states that the enslavement of a portion of the African race was, in fact, its salvation--that coming through the fires and adapting to some of the cultural practices of the majority has resulted in a strong and vibrant people that would never have existed otherwise.

If our country had ended up more homogeneous..would that have been a positive? For Black people/For White people?

Well..anyway..here we are. An amalgam of cultures and races. To me, race is irrelevant..culture rules.

 

[Asclepias]

The question:

As we move towards a "White Minority" country will our cultural paradigm shift significantly?

Or...will the prevailing mainstream culture prove strong enough to shape the new demographics to conform to the "old" values?

Is a non-white majority America still "America"?

Hmmm..rules:

Civility

Address the questions

Explain your point

Yes the culture will shift significantly. However, since the "values" whites espoused were never their values in the first place I dont understand your point. Whites didnt make up these values. They were stolen from other cultures and paraded as white ideas. What will happen as whites disappear will be the disappearance of their hypocritical lack of adherence to said values and influence.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

The question:

As we move towards a "White Minority" country will our cultural paradigm shift significantly?

Or...will the prevailing mainstream culture prove strong enough to shape the new demographics to conform to the "old" values?

Is a non-white majority America still "America"?

Hmmm..rules:

Civility

Address the questions

Explain your point

Yes the culture will shift significantly. However, since the "values" whites espoused were never their values in the first place I dont understand your point. Whites didnt make up these values. They were stolen from other cultures and paraded as white ideas. What will happen as whites disappear will be the disappearance of their hypocritical lack of adherence to said values and influence.

Just driftin' through and I read the preceding..LOL! I would have liked it if you had replied to my Post #74..but oh well. This is drivel..mostly because you make unsupported assertions such as "they were never their values in the first place"...Huh? Values don't have racial or even cultural progenitors..they have existed..in some form..from the dawn of time.Heck..I'm pretty sure that the bulk of our core values came from the Code of Hammurabi via the Jewish Bible. Equality..racial and sexual..has been posited by philosophers and religious leaders for a while now. I wonder...if you get the irony in the choice of your nic---https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asclepius...a healer God of the Greeks? Of course..if I read you correctly..you will exempt Mediterranean peoples from being "White" --of course..most of them were certainly not "Black" now were they? Was Martin Luther White? John Locke? Thomas Aquinas? Thomas More? Isaac Newton? Isaac Hooke? Thomas Harvey? Voltaire? Rousseau? And on and on and on. I hate to be the one to break it to you..but your revisionist view of history will never really catch on..no matter the demographic shift..because it is not true..simple as that. There are some truths included in your view..that African and African American advances, innovation and contributions have been down-played by our culture--and that needs to be addressed--and at an earlier stage in the educational process..so that all children can internalize them..rather than in college..when the bulk of the populace is not listening. There is no Black history..and there is no White history--there is just history. Those who cherry-pick what they wish..and present it as though it 'proves' something--are the problem..not the solution.

Hey..and what about Post #74?

 

[anotherlife]

Yes. The cultural paradigm is shifting with the demographics. Future discussions will be held only in Spanish.

 

[anotherlife]

Also, Marx was right in one thing. Your mind follows your pocket. This is why they don't allow student loans to clear in bankruptcy. The culture of the future is hereby established, nationwide.

 

[Unkotare]

My first shot--

The cultural paradigm of the country has always changed, sometimes gradually and sometimes quite quickly, i.e. ending slavery, westward movement, women voting, the railroad, the dust bowl, movement from farms to cities, industrialization, increasing number of states, the pill, smaller families, women working, etc,etc.etc. The creativity of the country has always involved change and adaptation, not clinging to and enforcing on others the "old" values. The Constitution has served us well throughout.

None of those things were cultural changes, just developments of existing trends.

 

[there4eyeM]

Paradigm shift? Materialism has only been growing stronger, in spite of all the evidence against its being good for humans or realistic in scientific/quantum mechanics terms. That isn't a 'shift', just acceleration in the same gear.