Debate Now Is the Cultural Paradigm Shifting Along with the Demographic Changes?

[usmbguest5318]

Thank-you for a cogent and well thought out response.

You're welcome.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

The question:

As we move towards a "White Minority" country will our cultural paradigm shift significantly?

Or...will the prevailing mainstream culture prove strong enough to shape the new demographics to conform to the "old" values?

Is a non-white majority America still "America"?

Hmmm..rules:

Civility

Address the questions

Explain your point

First of all threads like these serve one purpose. Divide and Conquer. Umkay?

Secondly, the only Majority which should be of any significant discussion and critical concern is a Rule by Omnipotent Majority scenario. Now, what does that mean? It means that the Individual (regardless of their race or cultural background), and any group of Individuals (again, regardless of their race or cultural background) composing any Minority, have no protection against the unlimited power of The Majority.

America is a haven for all religions and cultures and points of view. And it is not necessary that they agree in everything. It is only necessary that we all agree that we should all be free from government-over-man. Free from Rule by the Omnipotent Majority.

Well..I disagree..threads like these serve the purpose of debate..that we might refine our views and come to consensus.
We live in a majority rules nation..that being said..the founders put in many mechanisms to avoid the dangers of the 'tyranny of the majority'.

You're a bit off topic...but thank you for your input

 

[usmbguest5318]

Again, thank for taking the time.

I have some thoughts in mind to respond to your reply, but I'm going to think them through before posting them. It's not that they are so complex or anything, but rather than I just haven't given the questions much thought and I don't much care to post ideas I haven't thought about.

 

[usmbguest5318]

As we move towards a "White Minority" country will our cultural paradigm shift significantly?

I doubt it. There will be aspects of the culture that change. We'll have greater variety and acceptance of superficial things like entertainment genres, foods and fashions. The culture itself won't be materially different for the core cultural values of the U.S. -- freedom of opportunity, political freedom, and economic satisfaction -- are embraced every bit as much by whites as by non-whites. The core values that make the U.S. different from other Western democracies don't depend on the race of the citizenry.

will the prevailing mainstream culture prove strong enough to shape the new demographics to conform to the "old" values?

If by "old values" you mean social values the U.S. citizenry predominantly held in the middle 20th century and before, no. If you instead mean the sorts of things to which I referred above, obviously, yes, for the adoption of those values is already what we observe happening among non-whites. About the only cultural thing non-whites don't cotton to is the inculcation of the explicit and tacit primacy of whites and whiteness.

Is a non-white majority America still "America"?

Of course it is. America is defined by a set of geographic borders and a constitution and corresponding body of laws derived from it. The country was designed not as a monolith but rather as a fluid nation that evolves with its citizenry. That flexibility is one of the things that makes the U.S. different from all "superpowers" that preceded it. It is the one thing that may allow America to retain its global primacy when faced with challenges that toppled other "superpowers" that preceded it.

In the main, I agree with you. Thank-you for a cogent and well thought out response.
The bold: Yeah..but that is a huge source of friction--perhaps the biggest single flash point in our culture--how do you think it will resolve---Blood and tears? Or...just the gradual, peaceful 'changing of the guard? Both? White Separatist enclaves?

Now, politically--I think that the population will continue to shift Left, while the top 10%---those who 'rule'--will continue to tend Right--how will this dichotomy be resolved? Is this the last gasp..right now..with Trump, Bannon and the alt/right?
For sure, economically---White people will dominate for a long time..I think that irrelevant to the culture, as a whole..they will just have to ride the river with everyone else...or will they?

I believe that, as you pointed out, we are unique in that, as a nation, and as a culture, we can encompass what in other nations would be revolution--and make it our own. I'm old enough to remember the 1950's--and to remember looking around--in the 1980's and suddenly realizing..really getting it--that we had profoundly changed--and were still changing.
We did it in the 1960's---and we are in the process of doing it in the 21st century. IMO

Again, thank for taking the time.

how do you think it will resolve---Blood and tears? Or...just the gradual, peaceful 'changing of the guard? Both? White Separatist enclaves?

As best I can tell, all those are resolution approaches/outcomes that have been tried/observed. I'm not of the mind that any one of them alone can resolve the problem(s) advocates of each tack aim to overcome.

I think that the population will continue to shift Left, while the top 10%---those who 'rule'--will continue to tend Right--how will this dichotomy be resolved?

I don't think that dichotomy needs resolving. Also, I don't agree that the "ruling class," as you put it, tends right; were it so that it does, there wouldn't be Liberals who also hold political power and authority. To "tend" right, one must continually move in that direction; plenty of "ruling class" Liberals do not grow increasingly Conservative.

Is this the last gasp..right now..with Trump, Bannon and the alt/right?

Almost certainly not.

we had profoundly changed--and were still changing. We did it in the 1960's---and we are in the process of doing it in the 21st century. IMO

When a polity, citizenry, ceases to change and do so in a timely-enough fashion, it, like species, ceases to exist. Too much too soon is every bit as ill fated as too little too late. The key to good governance/leadership is balancing those two extremes.

 

[Two Thumbs]

As we move towards a "White Minority" country will our cultural paradigm shift significantly? I don't think our culture will change that much. There will be more of one thing and less of another. What we will see is a decline in the use of English and an increase in the various latin dialects. many of them refuse to learn proper English now, so most won't bother later and those that speak English only will be abused.

Or...will the prevailing mainstream culture prove strong enough to shape the new demographics to conform to the "old" values? Minorities are not known to hold onto values like; family and country. Since most of them are leftists, selfishness will increase dramatically.

Is a non-white majority America still "America"? In name only.



seem to be contradicting myself

Lame..sorry..but just..lame. Your parade of prejudice is noted..and rejected. You do seem to be of two minds about the matter? This was not really meant to be a political thread..where you can air your tired views..that minorities are lazy, have little or no family values, etc. You did address the debate though...even though I find your borderline racist views abhorrent..and worst of all...untrue.

I will address the language change that you posit...English is, and will continue to be the language of our country..I think we may become even more bilingual..Spanish being the other language...I do believe that that will be a regional phenomenon--as it is now.

I suspect that most of America is 'leftist' to you..sorry for your luck, Chuck.

My opinion..as long as the Constitution is the basis of our rule of law and as long as our Democratic process is unimpeded..we will be America. Just because our populace gets browner...does not mean that it is the end of our country...the culture will change..but...it always does, over time.

70-75% of black children have no father.

a well known fact and is not racism, unless you want to state that facts are racist.

keep your head in the sand

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

As we move towards a "White Minority" country will our cultural paradigm shift significantly? I don't think our culture will change that much. There will be more of one thing and less of another. What we will see is a decline in the use of English and an increase in the various latin dialects. many of them refuse to learn proper English now, so most won't bother later and those that speak English only will be abused.

Or...will the prevailing mainstream culture prove strong enough to shape the new demographics to conform to the "old" values? Minorities are not known to hold onto values like; family and country. Since most of them are leftists, selfishness will increase dramatically.

Is a non-white majority America still "America"? In name only.



seem to be contradicting myself

Lame..sorry..but just..lame. Your parade of prejudice is noted..and rejected. You do seem to be of two minds about the matter? This was not really meant to be a political thread..where you can air your tired views..that minorities are lazy, have little or no family values, etc. You did address the debate though...even though I find your borderline racist views abhorrent..and worst of all...untrue.

I will address the language change that you posit...English is, and will continue to be the language of our country..I think we may become even more bilingual..Spanish being the other language...I do believe that that will be a regional phenomenon--as it is now.

I suspect that most of America is 'leftist' to you..sorry for your luck, Chuck.

My opinion..as long as the Constitution is the basis of our rule of law and as long as our Democratic process is unimpeded..we will be America. Just because our populace gets browner...does not mean that it is the end of our country...the culture will change..but...it always does, over time.

70-75% of black children have no father.

a well known fact and is not racism, unless you want to state that facts are racist.

keep your head in the sand

Well..you did not state that...and you are border-line correct..depending on whose stats you like. But the reasons for the cited statistic..that's where you and I go our separate ways. To stay on topic...perhaps the cultural values of family will eventually win out..we shall see.

BTW..facts can be racist//it's all in the presentation. Your stat is a fact..if your contention is that that fact is an inevitable consequence of being black..that's racist.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

Hullo folks...I thought I'd revisit this debate...see where we are:

There is still some meat on this bone, I think.

Underneath the froth of our culture wars...inexorably...the gears are shifting--there is a serious test point in 2020. The US census and the inevitable reapportionment of voting districts. Here, the demographic influence may be most felt.

The biggest victory by the Right might arguably be the brilliant gerrymandering spearheaded by Karl Rove. That may be the only thing that has kept the Republicans going..especially on the State level. They beat the D's badly on that.

No surprises this time around....there will be a real battle to reverse and, as usual stack the deck the other way. If there is a marked shift to the D's in 2020...as I've contended before, I believe that this is the high-water mark for the Alt/right and those who affiliate with it, either in a political or a cultural context.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

The paradigm shift I have observed over the last few decades is that the left as fueled by minorities, has moved away from liberalism as it's guiding principle and towards a form of authoritarianism based upon race. Meanwhile, the only people willing to stand up for western liberalism against the onslaught of Islam seem to be conservatives.

I had to think about your post a bit. I don't think what you are describing is a cultural paradigm shift. I don't think that the left is fueled by minority's..'form of authoritarianism based on race'? If I interpreted that correctly..you are postulating a Socialist/Fascist ideology? I only get that because that seems to be the prevailing Alt/right narrative. I reject utterly the current Alt/right narrative that Socialism and Fascism are the same thing. It's absurd..to me. I think what many on the extreme right are going for is 'Totalitarian Socialist Dictatorship'. Which is something else entirely..while in effect it becomes something very similar, the philosophy is quite different.

Then you speak of the 'onslaught of Islam'..What onslaught? One could make a case for Europe being in trouble..mainly because of its habit of ghettoizing immigrants instead of assimilating them. Unlike the US tradition. Which, BTW..is why our incidence of cultural conflicts are so low. But there is no jihad in our streets--yes..there are some lone wolf attacks--but nothing that could be called an 'onslaught'.

It appears as though you are couching your argument in 'crusade-like' terms, The Cons are the Paladins of Christianity and the Right/White way of life. The Left are the Evil Appeasers who would sell our culture down the river for Political Correctness. Have I got it right?

Well..no surprise..I reject your premise. Not everyone on the left is a slave to political correctness..and most of America..Regardless of political position..hates terrorists.

The Extreme Left and the Extreme Right..are not emblematic of the Cultural norms..or except grossly..representative of our cultural paradigm.

Yes..Socialism is increasingly acceptable to Millennials..even though most of them haven't a clue as to what it exactly is. Thus--probably a shift..of course..our country was founded and settled by many who would, by today's standards, be considered socialist..or even communist. so, a shift forward..or a swing back?

I think that there is more to what I mean..by paradigm shift..than just our politics..or our culture wars.


I'm thinking of things like..the increasing acceptance of gays...the fading of religion as a influence...the move to a bi-lingual society.....the decline of the two parent family....the up-tick in distrust of authority of all sorts. What effect technology has. The effect of social media--both on interpersonal relationships and upon information dissemination.

The duel effects of increased access to information..and the increasing contempt many have for education and intellectual pursuits.

Is what many see as the 'dumbing down of America' going to lead to a permanent technical meritocracy?

And..how much of any of this is due to..or exacerbated by..the demographic shift from White majority to White minority?

The demographic shift from Boomer to Millenial--and beyond?

Thank you for your post..it helped me clarify my thoughts a bit.

Any comments here? I think this is as topical now as 6 months ago, eh?

 

[sakinago]

My first shot--

The cultural paradigm of the country has always changed, sometimes gradually and sometimes quite quickly, i.e. ending slavery, westward movement, women voting, the railroad, the dust bowl, movement from farms to cities, industrialization, increasing number of states, the pill, smaller families, women working, etc,etc.etc. The creativity of the country has always involved change and adaptation, not clinging to and enforcing on others the "old" values. The Constitution has served us well throughout.

I don’t understand, what does color have to do with anything? We’re the most mixed bag of apples the world has ever seen...by a long shot. People don’t come here because it’s a predominantly white nation, they come here because we have a set of ideas, and a government designed to protect individual rights. It turns out our crazy little experiment has worked far beyond anyone’s imagination. Not because of skin color, or what part of the world you come from, but because of the ideals that people should be free to set their own course and have the least amount of state barriers possible to do so. What’s up with bringing in color?

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

My first shot--

The cultural paradigm of the country has always changed, sometimes gradually and sometimes quite quickly, i.e. ending slavery, westward movement, women voting, the railroad, the dust bowl, movement from farms to cities, industrialization, increasing number of states, the pill, smaller families, women working, etc,etc.etc. The creativity of the country has always involved change and adaptation, not clinging to and enforcing on others the "old" values. The Constitution has served us well throughout.

I don’t understand, what does color have to do with anything? We’re the most mixed bag of apples the world has ever seen...by a long shot. People don’t come here because it’s a predominantly white nation, they come here because we have a set of ideas, and a government designed to protect individual rights. It turns out our crazy little experiment has worked far beyond anyone’s imagination. Not because of skin color, or what part of the world you come from, but because of the ideals that people should be free to set their own course and have the least amount of state barriers possible to do so. What’s up with bringing in color?

Your reply seems a bit..ingenuous?

Race is probably the number 1 issue in America, in one form or another. Could I ask you to refine your argument a bit..more in line with the topic? I'd suggest a brisk read of the thread..some good stuff here.

Bolded: I think most come here for the money...our perceived ideals are nice..and I think they grow on our immigrants--but standard of living..and a chance at a better life for their children...tops the list of reasons..IMO.

 

[TheParser]

As a relatively new member, I know that this forum has very strict rules. I will do my best to observe them while at the same time blowing off some steam.

*****

If one looks at any American city (large or small) that is run by politicians who come from two certain (current) minority groups, you will find corruption, nepotism, incompetence, and disorder that is way beyond the amount and degree found in cities that are run by the current majority.

*****

IMHO, it is obvious that the "cultural paradigm" WILL be shifting -- dramatically.

A mere piece of paper called the Constitution will be no match for the change that is a-coming.

 

[Wuwei]

It's hard for me to understand the meaning of American culture anymore. It seems to be at least right wing/left wing bipolar. I don't think “white minority” as a demographic indicator will be as large a driving force of culture as other trends such as -

Facebook, Twitter, and other social media,
Automation and a changing job paradigm,
Corporate consolidation,
Easy information access,
The loss of retail outlets to on-line purchasing.
A higher influence of corporations on life.

People of all religions and colors will be changing along these same lines. We don't know our neighbors as much anymore but our social circle focuses on colleagues at work or other activities.

I think, with what culture remains, the rural/urban cultural difference will become stronger.

 

[Foxfyre]

It's hard for me to understand the meaning of American culture anymore. It seems to be at least right wing/left wing bipolar. I don't think “white minority” as a demographic indicator will be as large a driving force of culture as other trends such as -

Facebook, Twitter, and other social media,
Automation and a changing job paradigm,
Corporate consolidation,
Easy information access,
The loss of retail outlets to on-line purchasing.
A higher influence of corporations on life.

People of all religions and colors will be changing along these same lines. We don't know our neighbors as much anymore but our social circle focuses on colleagues at work or other activities.

I think, with what culture remains, the rural/urban cultural difference will become stronger.

I don't see the major driving force as racial so much as it is ideological.

Over the years, most of our multi-racial, multi-ethnic families and friends have shared a common culture, i.e. appreciation for American holidays, celebrations, and an instinctive appreciation for or at least an understanding of the history that prompted them. Over more than two centuries now, we have done our best to correct our mistakes and wrongs and promote what is more just and honorable. We all have enjoyed fish fries, back yard bar-b-ques, parades, pageants, the lighting of the national Christmas tree, the ball descending on Times Square on New Years, Fourth of July fireworks, and the traditional Thanksgiving feast for many decades.

Good or bad, hero or villain, noble or not so much, the historical figures of our past were recognized as part of a grand journey that makes us uniquely American, a people that have improved and gotten better with age. We were able as a people to learn from and reject the bad while retaining what was worth keeping.

What is bit by bit intentionally eroding all of that is the determination by a minority but sizable group determined to erase all that makes us American.

Bit by bit they are making our religious, social, and historical heritage something bad, evil, unacceptable so that it can be erased from our memories and removed from the bedrock of Americanism that binds us into a culture. They throw the babies out with the bathwater on the pretext that if anything was unacceptable, everything was/is unacceptable.

We won't like the world they intend to create, however fuzzy it is in their own minds. Neither will they. But they are hellbent on getting us there just the same. it is a great national sickness that so far nobody has effected an anecdote or cure. If none is provided soon, the patient is done for.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

It's hard for me to understand the meaning of American culture anymore. It seems to be at least right wing/left wing bipolar. I don't think “white minority” as a demographic indicator will be as large a driving force of culture as other trends such as -

Facebook, Twitter, and other social media,
Automation and a changing job paradigm,
Corporate consolidation,
Easy information access,
The loss of retail outlets to on-line purchasing.
A higher influence of corporations on life.

People of all religions and colors will be changing along these same lines. We don't know our neighbors as much anymore but our social circle focuses on colleagues at work or other activities.

I think, with what culture remains, the rural/urban cultural difference will become stronger.

I don't see the major driving force as racial so much as it is ideological.

Over the years, most of our multi-racial, multi-ethnic families and friends have shared a common culture, i.e. appreciation for American holidays, celebrations, and an instinctive appreciation for or at least an understanding of the history that prompted them. Over more than two centuries now, we have done our best to correct our mistakes and wrongs and promote what is more just and honorable. We all have enjoyed fish fries, back yard bar-b-ques, parades, pageants, the lighting of the national Christmas tree, the ball descending on Times Square on New Years, Fourth of July fireworks, and the traditional Thanksgiving feast for many decades.

Good or bad, hero or villain, noble or not so much, the historical figures of our past were recognized as part of a grand journey that makes us uniquely American, a people that have improved and gotten better with age. We were able as a people to learn from and reject the bad while retaining what was worth keeping.

What is bit by bit intentionally eroding all of that is the determination by a minority but sizable group determined to erase all that makes us American.

Bit by bit they are making our religious, social, and historical heritage something bad, evil, unacceptable so that it can be erased from our memories and removed from the bedrock of Americanism that binds us into a culture. They throw the babies out with the bathwater on the pretext that if anything was unacceptable, everything was/is unacceptable.

We won't like the world they intend to create, however fuzzy it is in their own minds. Neither will they. But they are hellbent on getting us there just the same. it is a great national sickness that so far nobody has effected an anecdote or cure. If none is provided soon, the patient is done for.

Thank you for one of the most cogent articulations of your position I've read lately.

I'm struck by the similarity to much of what I've read from the moderates..on both sides of the divide. They feel that we are threatened by Extremists on both sides...that the Trumpian revolution is a step backwards...they feel that THEIR way of life is at risk. Yet, they find no peace in any Progressive vision either.
There is a lot both good and bad, in the body of our traditions--a sizable number of Americans do not view American as the halcyon days of yore..but rather as an endless slog to overcome adversity. They view our America with suspicion--and disbelief.

I don't view changing perspective on history to be 'erasing' history. The concept..especially in today's world..is a bit silly, to me. I do think that there are always those who will attempt to gain power through factionalism...by advocating some stupid thing or another...thus the kerfuffle over Civil War statues....the Politically uber-correct position of White male bashing and endless mea culpa. I think these sorts of things are froth...and essentially meaningless--just power points for power addicts and wannabe turf builders.

Factionalism is an existential danger--make no mistake...but I think the situation is far from out of control. A read of our history shows that we have engulfed ourselves in paroxysms of culture regularly..only to emerge better and stronger. I still maintain that the '60's were far more dynamic and fluid--perhaps the best/worst is yet to come?

I find a lot of comfort in shared traditions..and a lot of strength. Thus I'm a lot more sanguine about America's future than many are. As always, our real issue is with those who mean to advance themselves..by leading us to wherever...in the pursuit of their power.

 

[Foxfyre]

It's hard for me to understand the meaning of American culture anymore. It seems to be at least right wing/left wing bipolar. I don't think “white minority” as a demographic indicator will be as large a driving force of culture as other trends such as -

Facebook, Twitter, and other social media,
Automation and a changing job paradigm,
Corporate consolidation,
Easy information access,
The loss of retail outlets to on-line purchasing.
A higher influence of corporations on life.

People of all religions and colors will be changing along these same lines. We don't know our neighbors as much anymore but our social circle focuses on colleagues at work or other activities.

I think, with what culture remains, the rural/urban cultural difference will become stronger.

I don't see the major driving force as racial so much as it is ideological.

Over the years, most of our multi-racial, multi-ethnic families and friends have shared a common culture, i.e. appreciation for American holidays, celebrations, and an instinctive appreciation for or at least an understanding of the history that prompted them. Over more than two centuries now, we have done our best to correct our mistakes and wrongs and promote what is more just and honorable. We all have enjoyed fish fries, back yard bar-b-ques, parades, pageants, the lighting of the national Christmas tree, the ball descending on Times Square on New Years, Fourth of July fireworks, and the traditional Thanksgiving feast for many decades.

Good or bad, hero or villain, noble or not so much, the historical figures of our past were recognized as part of a grand journey that makes us uniquely American, a people that have improved and gotten better with age. We were able as a people to learn from and reject the bad while retaining what was worth keeping.

What is bit by bit intentionally eroding all of that is the determination by a minority but sizable group determined to erase all that makes us American.

Bit by bit they are making our religious, social, and historical heritage something bad, evil, unacceptable so that it can be erased from our memories and removed from the bedrock of Americanism that binds us into a culture. They throw the babies out with the bathwater on the pretext that if anything was unacceptable, everything was/is unacceptable.

We won't like the world they intend to create, however fuzzy it is in their own minds. Neither will they. But they are hellbent on getting us there just the same. it is a great national sickness that so far nobody has effected an anecdote or cure. If none is provided soon, the patient is done for.

Thank you for one of the most cogent articulations of your position I've read lately.

I'm struck by the similarity to much of what I've read from the moderates..on both sides of the divide. They feel that we are threatened by Extremists on both sides...that the Trumpian revolution is a step backwards...they feel that THEIR way of life is at risk. Yet, they find no peace in any Progressive vision either.
There is a lot both good and bad, in the body of our traditions--a sizable number of Americans do not view American as the halcyon days of yore..but rather as an endless slog to overcome adversity. They view our America with suspicion--and disbelief.

I don't view changing perspective on history to be 'erasing' history. The concept..especially in today's world..is a bit silly, to me. I do think that there are always those who will attempt to gain power through factionalism...by advocating some stupid thing or another...thus the kerfuffle over Civil War statues....the Politically uber-correct position of White male bashing and endless mea culpa. I think these sorts of things are froth...and essentially meaningless--just power points for power addicts and wannabe turf builders.

Factionalism is an existential danger--make no mistake...but I think the situation is far from out of control. A read of our history shows that we have engulfed ourselves in paroxysms of culture regularly..only to emerge better and stronger. I still maintain that the '60's were far more dynamic and fluid--perhaps the best/worst is yet to come?

I find a lot of comfort in shared traditions..and a lot of strength. Thus I'm a lot more sanguine about America's future than many are. As always, our real issue is with those who mean to advance themselves..by leading us to wherever...in the pursuit of their power.

I wish I could be as sanguine about it, but my instincts--my gut if you will--sees a strong possibility of something very sinister at work. In most essentially bloodless coups resulting in dictatorships or other totalitarian forms of government--none which turned out to be better than what they replaced and some which turned out to be scourges to the world--you see a common thread of cultural change effected over time:

1. Creating more and more dependency on government as well as creating economic detriment to encourage more dependency.
2. Controlling education and therefore what the young know and believe
3. Infiltrating and then controlling the media, scientific institutions, and other methods of producing a reliable group think and echo chamber.
4. Making religion socially unacceptable even to the point of demonization.
5. Eroding and diminishing the history and cultural traditions and customs to be replaced with ideological approval of the new.
6. Encouraging a sense of victimization by the existing culture/government.
7. Demonization of any who would interfere with progress on this agenda.

 

[Wuwei]

I don't see the major driving force as racial so much as it is ideological.

Over the years, most of our multi-racial, multi-ethnic families and friends have shared a common culture, i.e. appreciation for American holidays, celebrations, and an instinctive appreciation for or at least an understanding of the history that prompted them. Over more than two centuries now, we have done our best to correct our mistakes and wrongs and promote what is more just and honorable. We all have enjoyed fish fries, back yard bar-b-ques, parades, pageants, the lighting of the national Christmas tree, the ball descending on Times Square on New Years, Fourth of July fireworks, and the traditional Thanksgiving feast for many decades.

Good or bad, hero or villain, noble or not so much, the historical figures of our past were recognized as part of a grand journey that makes us uniquely American, a people that have improved and gotten better with age. We were able as a people to learn from and reject the bad while retaining what was worth keeping.

What is bit by bit intentionally eroding all of that is the determination by a minority but sizable group determined to erase all that makes us American.

Bit by bit they are making our religious, social, and historical heritage something bad, evil, unacceptable so that it can be erased from our memories and removed from the bedrock of Americanism that binds us into a culture. They throw the babies out with the bathwater on the pretext that if anything was unacceptable, everything was/is unacceptable.

We won't like the world they intend to create, however fuzzy it is in their own minds. Neither will they. But they are hellbent on getting us there just the same. it is a great national sickness that so far nobody has effected an anecdote or cure. If none is provided soon, the patient is done for.

We still have the things in your second paragraph the holidays, fish-fries, Christmas, Thanksgiving, that seem to be to be celebrated by most Americans as the demographics evolve.

However, having lived through 14 different presidents I'm now living in a future shock. People are becoming more impersonal because of the internet and communications. Thanksgiving is really Black Friday Eve. Christmas is gradually turning into shopping by Amazon who will even gift wrap and ship your selection to distant relations. Even then Black Friday is morphing into Cyber Monday. Retail is dying – Toys R Us, Sears...

I still get a daily newspaper. Nobody else on my street does. Simple sing-along songs: no more. The accordion, banjo, ukulele (yes I once played them), now are laughable. Acid rock and Rap... that's cool.

I don't see any evil in our religious, social and historical heritage. Sure I see it on the media incessantly, but I don't see it directly in my life. The “war on Christmas”... I seemed to have missed it. Tearing down old statues... The locals have seen it but not me. In short I would miss many trends you are referring to if I didn't see it on TV.

From my perspective I still see most elements of Americana, but it has morphed into something more sterile. When we buy stuff, it's not from Mom and Pop stores anymore. Even their replacements – big name department stores are going. The millennials will be comfortable but it's changing in ways that I don't like. Yes, the cultural paradigm is shifting, but I don't see the ideological aspect affecting anyone I know. The changes that I see are more by ever evolving technology than whites becoming a minority.

 

[sakinago]

My first shot--

The cultural paradigm of the country has always changed, sometimes gradually and sometimes quite quickly, i.e. ending slavery, westward movement, women voting, the railroad, the dust bowl, movement from farms to cities, industrialization, increasing number of states, the pill, smaller families, women working, etc,etc.etc. The creativity of the country has always involved change and adaptation, not clinging to and enforcing on others the "old" values. The Constitution has served us well throughout.

I don’t understand, what does color have to do with anything? We’re the most mixed bag of apples the world has ever seen...by a long shot. People don’t come here because it’s a predominantly white nation, they come here because we have a set of ideas, and a government designed to protect individual rights. It turns out our crazy little experiment has worked far beyond anyone’s imagination. Not because of skin color, or what part of the world you come from, but because of the ideals that people should be free to set their own course and have the least amount of state barriers possible to do so. What’s up with bringing in color?

Your reply seems a bit..ingenuous?

Race is probably the number 1 issue in America, in one form or another. Could I ask you to refine your argument a bit..more in line with the topic? I'd suggest a brisk read of the thread..some good stuff here.

Bolded: I think most come here for the money...our perceived ideals are nice..and I think they grow on our immigrants--but standard of living..and a chance at a better life for their children...tops the list of reasons..IMO.

Refine my argument? You clearly care too much about skin color. You’re taking a snapshot of reality, vs watching the full 4 hour documentary. The Indians and the Chinese are killing it as a minority. Is that because of the region of the world they come from, or the region of the world they came too based on the ideas of that region?

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

My first shot--

The cultural paradigm of the country has always changed, sometimes gradually and sometimes quite quickly, i.e. ending slavery, westward movement, women voting, the railroad, the dust bowl, movement from farms to cities, industrialization, increasing number of states, the pill, smaller families, women working, etc,etc.etc. The creativity of the country has always involved change and adaptation, not clinging to and enforcing on others the "old" values. The Constitution has served us well throughout.

I don’t understand, what does color have to do with anything? We’re the most mixed bag of apples the world has ever seen...by a long shot. People don’t come here because it’s a predominantly white nation, they come here because we have a set of ideas, and a government designed to protect individual rights. It turns out our crazy little experiment has worked far beyond anyone’s imagination. Not because of skin color, or what part of the world you come from, but because of the ideals that people should be free to set their own course and have the least amount of state barriers possible to do so. What’s up with bringing in color?

Your reply seems a bit..ingenuous?

Race is probably the number 1 issue in America, in one form or another. Could I ask you to refine your argument a bit..more in line with the topic? I'd suggest a brisk read of the thread..some good stuff here.

Bolded: I think most come here for the money...our perceived ideals are nice..and I think they grow on our immigrants--but standard of living..and a chance at a better life for their children...tops the list of reasons..IMO.

Refine my argument? You clearly care too much about skin color. You’re taking a snapshot of reality, vs watching the full 4 hour documentary. The Indians and the Chinese are killing it as a minority. Is that because of the region of the world they come from, or the region of the world they came too based on the ideas of that region?

I do not care at all about skin color..except as a data point. My whole inquiry is based more on culture...what has been perceived as 'mainstream'..as opposed to what is becoming more relevant. Race is relevant..like it or no...but culture is the defining matrix that imbues people with what and who they are. Just a guess..but I would think that many Asians 'kill it' because their culture accentuates family over the individual...and many of them have a great work ethic. being able to defer gratification in the furtherance of long-term goals may well enter into it as well.

I believe that our base cultural paradigm will remain the same..no matter the amalgam our culture becomes. The Constitution in Spanish is still the Constitution, IMO.

It's amazing to me how many want us to fail..just because the skin color du jour may be darkening a little.

 

[HenryBHough]

I've watched this happen in New England former textile cities.

A wave of (legal) immigrants arise and are persecuted because they will work for low wages displacing workers.

The displaced with skills migrate away (those who were renters; homeowners not so much).

The ethnic minority immigrants bring family from the old country and many prosper while clinging to the extended family culture they left behind. Some, spectacularly visible, sink into dependence and poverty. These are called "Democrats".

Now it get to be fun. One of those who prospered mobilizes the failures and, supported by the now ethnic near-majority (both successful and failure) and gets elected first to the city council and then as mayor.

Quirky, I know, but history showed the migrant influx concentrated ethnicities in different cities (Irish in one, French in another, Portuguese in another, etc.) so the political rise generally ends right there. At a mayorality. Which becomes corrupt. No fault of the ethnicity; rather of the nature of American politics.

It ends when there's a new influx from a different country. The process simply repeats.

Beyond the city level it's a little different but we can see it morphing and should expect the process to accelerate.

 

[sakinago]

It's hard for me to understand the meaning of American culture anymore. It seems to be at least right wing/left wing bipolar. I don't think “white minority” as a demographic indicator will be as large a driving force of culture as other trends such as -

Facebook, Twitter, and other social media,
Automation and a changing job paradigm,
Corporate consolidation,
Easy information access,
The loss of retail outlets to on-line purchasing.
A higher influence of corporations on life.

People of all religions and colors will be changing along these same lines. We don't know our neighbors as much anymore but our social circle focuses on colleagues at work or other activities.

I think, with what culture remains, the rural/urban cultural difference will become stronger.

I don’t worry about immigration as much changing culture, vs our education system and universities doing so. First premise, immigrants coming over here, whether legally or illegally, are coming here for a better life. A better life that our culture brought, which was made up of principles like freedom (of speech, labor, property etc), the idea that hard work will give you a better opportunity here than pretty much any other place on earth, and that even if your on the bottom in this country you’re going to be in better shape than you were in your previous country (probably with the idea that you’re not going to remain on the bottom, or at least your progeny won’t). I heard an anecdotal story speaking to this point of a daughter of an Asian immigrant reminiscing on her Dads accent being mocked when she was younger. This made her understandably angry, and she asked her Dad why it didn’t make him so angry. He said, “Who cares? Do you know how much nicer it is here than it is back in my country?” That doesn’t excuse racism, but it shows the mentality of what I believe many of the immigrants coming over have. So there are no tanks on the streets, I don’t have to worry about overtly corrupt police or officials, I feel safer, I’m making more money, I have a car, nicer house, my kids future is brighter than anything I could ever wish for, and this Netflix thing is pretty cool. ..but I might have to deal with the very few folks mocking my accent or heritage...sign me up ASAP.

Second premise, our education system is broken. It is centered around teaching kids what to think as opposed to how to think. The public sector is heavily influenced by a teachers union whose intended mission is to look out for teachers, not students. On top of that the education sector, which was probably left leaning about a decade ago, has taken a dramatic step left to more radical thinking. This type of radical left thinking is directly opposed to the principles listed above that brought us so much immigration in the first place. That our founding fathers were just rich racist white people, looking out for their own property, and further enshrining their power. That you are fine the way you are and if you do not succeed, it is because someone or something is oppressing you. And that others who are successful got there by exploiting you and those like you. It is ripe with postmodernism, which is a perfectly fine subject to teach, but not so much when it is the operating system for most of the teaching going on, especially in the humanities. A very large majority of those running and teaching in the universities are on left, and many, probably most are on the radical left and espouse the sentiments stated earlier. This is who is bringing up the next generation. This is the indoctrination of those who will be let loose in the business, political, and scientific world in the next 5 years. We are already seeing it’s effects around us.

Third premise, not only are we sending our next generation to universities trying to indoctrinate our kids, our kids are paying tens of thousands of dollars for it...if they’re lucky. Our universities, and public schools for that matter, have become incredibly administratively top heavy. They are still paying the teaching faculty the same thing they were 30 years ago, the exponential rise in tuition cost is all going to these growing administrative departments. So we are crippling our kids with unheard of debt that will last into their 40s before they even get their lives started...and he kicker is, they can’t declare bankruptcy on that debt. This is indentured servitude on behalf of the universities, and their professors are trying to pre-emptively shift the blame onto the 1% (patriarchy, institutional racism, founding fathers, whatever) before they get out into the world with 80,000 in debt an and entry level job somewhere...if they’re lucky. The universities are finger pointing at whatever they can, while they are robbing our kids blind and raking in millions upon millions with a watered down sorry excuse of an education (sometimes just a big heap of BS in majors that have zero practical applications).

This is where the children of immigrants will be educated, as the universities smash the legs of our kids with bats and sending them off into the world. As our public school system administrative departments demand more and more tax money from their parents just to justify their existence. This is what worries me about the culture change in this country.