Is the ACLU really Anti-Christian

mattskramer

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Is the ACLU really Anti-Christian above all else or is it merely pro-civil liberties?
Check out the following cases:

ACLU of Louisiana Files Lawsuit to Protect Free Speech Rights of Christian Protestor

http://www.aclu.org/freespeech/protest/27266prs20061027.html

ACLU Supports Right of Iowa Students to Distribute Christian Literature at School

http://www.aclu.org/studentsrights/religion/12811prs20020711.html

ACLU of Rhode Island Files Appeal on Behalf of Christian Prisoner Barred from Preaching at Religious Services

http://www.aclu.org/religion/frb/23445prs20060112.html

After ACLU Intervention on Behalf of Christian Valedictorian, Michigan High School Agrees to Stop Censoring Religious Yearbook Entries

http://www.aclu.org/studentsrights/expression/12845prs20040511.html

ACLU of Michigan Defends Catholic Man Coerced to Convert to Pentecostal Faith in Drug Rehab Program

http://www.aclu.org/religion/govtfunding/22354prs20051206.html

Shucks. After I really read some of the cases involving civil liberties, the ACLU, and Christianity, it is clear to me that the ACLU is not necessarily anti-Christian – no matter what some right-wing extremist “Christians” organizations would want you to believe.

Oh, no. A group like the ACLU finds that a non-Christian is treated unfairly, runs to the non-Christian’s side and all hell breaks loose thanks to the “700 Club” and the ACLJ. LOL.
 

Annie

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Matts, how many cases did they file over this time period? Just curious.
 

Gunny

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Matts, how many cases did they file over this time period? Just curious.
You gotta hand it to this guy ..... his arguments are consistently dishonest BS. The ACLU takes a few cases every so often to keep up the appearance of equality, when that is CLEARLY not their agenda.
 

Avatar4321

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Its a communist organization, of course its anti Christian. Its anti any religion, although they have no problem using any religion christian or other to further their marxist agenda.
 
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mattskramer

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You gotta hand it to this guy ..... his arguments are consistently dishonest BS. The ACLU takes a few cases every so often to keep up the appearance of equality, when that is CLEARLY not their agenda.
Even if the ACLU is on the non-Christian side more often than it is on the Christian side, it does not mean that the ACLU is anti-Christian. It may very well be that the Christian side was being unfair to the non-Christian side. I still contend that the ACLU does not have a pro-Christian or anti-Christian agenda. It is merely interested in protecting civil liberties. Its agenda is to defend and protect civil liberties for all people – Christian and non-Christian alike.
 
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mattskramer

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Its a communist organization, of course its anti Christian. Its anti any religion, although they have no problem using any religion christian or other to further their marxist agenda.
In 1940, the ACLU formally barred communists from leadership or staff positions, and would take the position that it did not want communists as members either. The board declared that it was "inappropriate for any person to serve on the governing committees of the Union or its staff, who is a member of any political organization which supports totalitarian dictatorship in any country, or who by his public declarations indicates his support of such a principle." The purge, which was led by Baldwin, himself a former supporter of Communism, began with the ouster of Elizabeth Gurley Flynn, a member of both the Communist Party of the USA and the IWW.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACLU
 

ScreamingEagle

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Even if the ACLU is on the non-Christian side more often than it is on the Christian side, it does not mean that the ACLU is anti-Christian. It may very well be that the Christian side was being unfair to the non-Christian side. I still contend that the ACLU does not have a pro-Christian or anti-Christian agenda. It is merely interested in protecting civil liberties. Its agenda is to defend and protect civil liberties for all people – Christian and non-Christian alike.
"merely interested in protecting civil liberties"? Sure thing matts. You really are a blue-sky believer, aren't you? Here's another example, about some kids singing "Away in the Manger". It's just another one of those great "civil liberties" actions by the ACLU:

Late last week at the Lakeview Elementary School in Wilson County, Tennessee, moms and dads, grandparents, aunts and uncles gathered at the school to watch the performance of the elementary students’ Christmas program. Also in attendance were three lawyers, including our Senior Counsel from the American Center for Law and Justice. The Wilson County School System has been sued by the ACLU because last year’s program included the singing of the song, “Away in a Manger.” The ACLU actually alleged in the complaint that when people joined in to sing “Away in a Manger,” it violated the Constitution because the song is “exclusively Christian in nature, celebrating the birth of Jesus Christ.” They went on to allege that “only the Christian viewpoint of Christmas was recognized and celebrated at this program.”


As this case was filed in federal court, the American Center for Law and Justice represented school officials. I wanted to make sure that the ACLU’s censorship attack would not be successful, and I am happy to report that at the program last week, students sang “Away in a Manger” in the presence of three lawyers and no additional legal action has been taken. But isn’t it ridiculous that three lawyers had to monitor what fifth and sixth graders would be singing at the school’s event? Have we reached a point in our culture where students singing a song that some might disagree with can now become a basis of censorship? For all the ACLU’s talk of championing freedom of speech, they certainly weren’t championing the freedom of speech of these students. The good news is that reason prevailed and the song was sung.


Retailers seem to have learned their lesson as well. Wal-Mart and others have allowed, once again, for their employees to say “Merry Christmas.” Even a spokeswoman from Wal-Mart was quoted as saying, “We’ve listened to our customers and associates, and they wanted Christmas back at Wal-Mart.” Marisa Bluestone, the Wal-Mart spokeswoman, went on to say, “We’ve learned our lesson. This year we’re not afraid to say 'Merry Christmas.’” Most Americans prefer the greeting “Merry Christmas” to “Happy Holidays.” A survey by Rasmussen found that 69% of us prefer the traditional greeting—prompting the survey to state: “The growing trend of political correctness runs against the tide of popular opinion.”



Let’s not forget that the First Amendment of the United States Constitution protects religious speech and religious speakers. The Supreme Court has consistently held that the Establishment Clause does not license government to treat religious people or religious practices as if they are subversive the American Republic and subject to unique disabilities. As early as 1892, the Supreme Court recognized that we in the United States are a “religious nation.” Justice O’Connor noted during the famed Pledge of Allegiance case: “It is unsurprising that a Nation founded by religious refugees and dedicated to religious freedom should find references to divinity in its symbols, songs, mottoes, and oaths. Eradicating such references would sever ties to a history that sustains this Nation even today.”



While we are pleased that the students in Tennessee were able to sing “Away in a Manager” without having to run down to the U.S. District Court, the City of Chicago still persists in its discrimination against “The Nativity Story.” We did receive a letter from the City of Chicago regarding the reason for denial. They had previously acknowledged that “The Nativity Story” might be deemed offensive and would be an inappropriate festival sponsor. This was their decision, despite the fact that the festival organizers had already accepted “The Nativity Story” as a sponsoring organization. While the City was reportedly worried about the movie being offensive to non-Christians, the fact is, by removing “The Nativity Story” as a festival sponsor, many Christians were offended. This, however, does not seem to bother the City of Chicago.



While some retailers seem to get it and even the ACLU attorneys in Tennessee, at this point, seem to get it, the City of Chicago persists in its discriminatory tactics. To target a traditional greeting of “Merry Christmas” or remove a corporate sponsor because of their religious message is not only wrong, but runs afoul of the First Amendment. It’s time to reject political correctness for common sense. That’s what happened in Tennessee this week; but unfortunately, it has yet to happen in Chicago.


Posted: 12/11/2006 10:25:00 AM
http://www.aclj.org/TrialNotebook/Read.aspx?id=430
 

Gunny

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Even if the ACLU is on the non-Christian side more often than it is on the Christian side, it does not mean that the ACLU is anti-Christian. It may very well be that the Christian side was being unfair to the non-Christian side. I still contend that the ACLU does not have a pro-Christian or anti-Christian agenda. It is merely interested in protecting civil liberties. Its agenda is to defend and protect civil liberties for all people – Christian and non-Christian alike.
You contend incorrectly. The ACLU clearly has an anti-Christian agenda.
 
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mattskramer

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"merely interested in protecting civil liberties"? Sure thing matts. You really are a blue-sky believer, aren't you? Here's another example, about some kids singing "Away in the Manger". It's just another one of those great "civil liberties" actions by the ACLU:
Oh course you picked a case up from the ACLJ web site http://www.aclj.org/TrialNotebook/Read.aspx?id=430 and the ACLJ is unbiased and pure as the newly fallen snow. Did you research the ACLU side of the issue? Also in attendance were three lawyers, including our Senior Counsel from the American Center for Law and Justice. Why were so many lawyers there? It seems like this was a staged even to get the ACLU’s attention. But isn’t it ridiculous that three lawyers had to monitor what fifth and sixth graders would be singing at the school’s event? Why the extra commentary? Can’t we merely stick with the facts?

To play fair, consider a similar case from the ACLU’s perspective:

http://www.aclu.org/religion/schools/26946prs20060927.html

ACLU of Tennessee Fights for Religious Freedom in Wilson County Public School

NASHVILLE - Acting on behalf of a Wilson County family, the American Civil Liberties Union of Tennessee today asked a federal court to end practices by teachers and other officials that put pressure on students to engage in religious activities at Lakeview Elementary School.

The ACLU said it is bringing the lawsuit after repeated attempts by the family to end the school-sponsored religious activities, which they believe interfere with their right to religious freedom.

“It is unfortunate that we had to go to court to protect religious freedom but we had no other choice. We are pursuing this lawsuit so that Wilson County residents can decide for themselves whether or not they want to practice a particular religious faith,” said ACLU of Tennessee Executive Director Hedy Weinberg.

School administrators repeatedly disregarded the family’s requests and continued to promote and sponsor activities like “Prayer at the Flag Pole” and “Praying Parents,” whose members enter classrooms and tell students that they have prayed for them. Rather than taking the family’s requests seriously, the school administrators encouraged the family to withdraw their child from the school.

In the lawsuit, the ACLU of Tennessee argues that the pattern and practice of promoting and endorsing religious activities by the Wilson County public school system is unconstitutional. In addition to “Praying Parents” and “Prayer at the Flag Pole,” the Wilson County school system promotes a range of religious activities, including a National Day of Prayer event and teacher-led classroom prayers, according to the lawsuit.

“Families have the right to decide for themselves whether to pray, when to pray, how to pray, and where to pray. It is the role of the family not the public school to make those very personal decisions,” added Weinberg. “By promoting their own personal beliefs, Lakeview officials are broadcasting a divisive message to the religiously pluralistic community of Wilson County.”

The ACLU filed today’s lawsuit, John Doe and Jane Doe v. Wilson County School System, in the United States District Court for the Middle District of Tennessee. The family wishes to remain anonymous because they fear for their child’s safety. The ACLU said the fact that the family does not want to be identified for fear of reprisals further demonstrates the divisions created in a community when the government takes sides on religious issues.
 

ScreamingEagle

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Oh course you picked a case up from the ACLJ web site http://www.aclj.org/TrialNotebook/Read.aspx?id=430 and the ACLJ is unbiased and pure as the newly fallen snow. Did you research the ACLU side of the issue? Also in attendance were three lawyers, including our Senior Counsel from the American Center for Law and Justice. Why were so many lawyers there? It seems like this was a staged even to get the ACLU’s attention. But isn’t it ridiculous that three lawyers had to monitor what fifth and sixth graders would be singing at the school’s event? Why the extra commentary? Can’t we merely stick with the facts?

To play fair, consider a similar case from the ACLU’s perspective:

http://www.aclu.org/religion/schools/26946prs20060927.html

ACLU of Tennessee Fights for Religious Freedom in Wilson County Public School

NASHVILLE - Acting on behalf of a Wilson County family, the American Civil Liberties Union of Tennessee today asked a federal court to end practices by teachers and other officials that put pressure on students to engage in religious activities at Lakeview Elementary School.

The ACLU said it is bringing the lawsuit after repeated attempts by the family to end the school-sponsored religious activities, which they believe interfere with their right to religious freedom.

“It is unfortunate that we had to go to court to protect religious freedom but we had no other choice. We are pursuing this lawsuit so that Wilson County residents can decide for themselves whether or not they want to practice a particular religious faith,” said ACLU of Tennessee Executive Director Hedy Weinberg.

School administrators repeatedly disregarded the family’s requests and continued to promote and sponsor activities like “Prayer at the Flag Pole” and “Praying Parents,” whose members enter classrooms and tell students that they have prayed for them. Rather than taking the family’s requests seriously, the school administrators encouraged the family to withdraw their child from the school.

In the lawsuit, the ACLU of Tennessee argues that the pattern and practice of promoting and endorsing religious activities by the Wilson County public school system is unconstitutional. In addition to “Praying Parents” and “Prayer at the Flag Pole,” the Wilson County school system promotes a range of religious activities, including a National Day of Prayer event and teacher-led classroom prayers, according to the lawsuit.

“Families have the right to decide for themselves whether to pray, when to pray, how to pray, and where to pray. It is the role of the family not the public school to make those very personal decisions,” added Weinberg. “By promoting their own personal beliefs, Lakeview officials are broadcasting a divisive message to the religiously pluralistic community of Wilson County.”

The ACLU filed today’s lawsuit, John Doe and Jane Doe v. Wilson County School System, in the United States District Court for the Middle District of Tennessee. The family wishes to remain anonymous because they fear for their child’s safety. The ACLU said the fact that the family does not want to be identified for fear of reprisals further demonstrates the divisions created in a community when the government takes sides on religious issues.
The public has the right to religious free expression in public places. Tell me where in the Constitution it says they don't. The child was not being forced to engage in any religious activities if he didn't want to. He could have gotten excused from the activity. He probably could have gone into another room and said prayers to the ACLU if he wanted. This is just another example of tyranny of the minority with the ACLU leading the way against Christian expression.
:zip:
 
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mattskramer

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The public has the right to religious free expression in public places. Tell me where in the Constitution it says they don't. The child was not being forced to engage in any religious activities if he didn't want to. He could have gotten excused from the activity. He probably could have gone into another room and said prayers to the ACLU if he wanted. This is just another example of tyranny of the minority with the ACLU leading the way against Christian expression.
:zip:
You are free to speak. Talk on the sidewalk; talk with neighbors, and even at your local store.

See http://www.aclu.org/freespeech/protest/27266prs20061027.html
where the ACLU of Louisiana Files Lawsuit to Protect Free Speech Rights of Christian Protestor.

You are free to speak to those who care to listen but you should not be allowed to use taxpayer money to broadcast your faith to the exclusion of other religions. It is simply not fair for public school officials to recognize Christianity above (and to exclude) other religions before a practically captive audience. If it does not violate the establishment clause, it comes close to doing so. To say to a non-Christian that he need not participate is still unfair. “I am your teacher and I am going to lead us in Christian prayer but since you are not a Christian, you can leave the room.” No. To be fair, it should leave Christ out or have recognition “equal time” for other faiths including atheism.
 

dilloduck

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You are free to speak. Talk on the sidewalk; talk with neighbors, and even at your local store.

See http://www.aclu.org/freespeech/protest/27266prs20061027.html
where the ACLU of Louisiana Files Lawsuit to Protect Free Speech Rights of Christian Protestor.

You are free to speak to those who care to listen but you should not be allowed to use taxpayer money to broadcast your faith to the exclusion of other religions. It is simply not fair for public school officials to recognize Christianity above (and to exclude) other religions before a practically captive audience. If it does not violate the establishment clause, it comes close to doing so. To say to a non-Christian that he need not participate is still unfair. “I am your teacher and I am going to lead us in Christian prayer but since you are not a Christian, you can leave the room.” No. To be fair, it should leave Christ out or have recognition “equal time” for other faiths including atheism.
That's absurd--if you never talk about God, you are always promoting atheism. Get over it--If religions ever start charging for all the work they do to take care of Americas' truly needy, you will regret it.
 

Gunny

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You are free to speak. Talk on the sidewalk; talk with neighbors, and even at your local store.

See http://www.aclu.org/freespeech/protest/27266prs20061027.html
where the ACLU of Louisiana Files Lawsuit to Protect Free Speech Rights of Christian Protestor.

You are free to speak to those who care to listen but you should not be allowed to use taxpayer money to broadcast your faith to the exclusion of other religions. It is simply not fair for public school officials to recognize Christianity above (and to exclude) other religions before a practically captive audience. If it does not violate the establishment clause, it comes close to doing so. To say to a non-Christian that he need not participate is still unfair. “I am your teacher and I am going to lead us in Christian prayer but since you are not a Christian, you can leave the room.” No. To be fair, it should leave Christ out or have recognition “equal time” for other faiths including atheism.
We were free to speak at our neighbors, the store and/or on the sidewalk before the ACLU existed.

When the overwhelming majority of American citizens are Christians, it is unfair to stifle their collective belief becuase of a relative handful of whiney-ass shits like you who believe the majority should suffer the tyranny of the minority.

But it is nice to see that you admit atheism is simply another faith/belief.
 

Abbey Normal

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Is the ACLU Anti-Christian? I think this little 'compare & contrast' segment sums it up rather well:

May 2000 - Arizona Governor Jane Hull issues a proclamation celebrating the birth of Buddha. An ACLU spokesperson said, "Although we may think proclamations are inappropriate, they may not violate the Constitution."

In 1998, when Governor Hull issued a proclamation declaring a "Bible Week," the ACLU sued, claiming a violation of the so-called "separation of church and state."
http://www.reclaimamerica.org/Pages/ACLU/decades.html
 

trobinett

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mattskramer posts:

You are free to speak. Talk on the sidewalk; talk with neighbors, and even at your local store.
Of course we are, as long as it has NOTHING to do about CHRISTAINITY.

Sorry bud, your agenda is showing.:eusa_hand:
 

CTRLALTDEL

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"You are free to speak. Talk on the sidewalk; talk with neighbors, and even at your local store.
Of course we are, as long as it has NOTHING to do about CHRISTAINITY."



And who's stopping you from talking about Christianity on the SIDEWALK, WITH NEIGHBORS AND EVEN AT YOUR LOCAL STORE????
 

trobinett

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"You are free to speak. Talk on the sidewalk; talk with neighbors, and even at your local store.
Of course we are, as long as it has NOTHING to do about CHRISTAINITY."



And who's stopping you from talking about Christianity on the SIDEWALK, WITH NEIGHBORS AND EVEN AT YOUR LOCAL STORE????
A little late to the game CTRLALTDEL, I'd suggest doing a little homework BEFORE jumping in.

However, to answer your somewhat rhetorical question.

NO ONE, but their trying, and so far, without much success.

I suppose your next silly question would be, who is they?:eusa_wall:
 
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mattskramer

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mattskramer posts:



Of course we are, as long as it has NOTHING to do about CHRISTAINITY.

Sorry bud, your agenda is showing.:eusa_hand:
Uh, hello? Look at the case in the link that I posted:

http://www.aclu.org/freespeech/prote...s20061027.html

American Civil Liberties Union of Louisiana filed a lawsuit on behalf of a lone protestor who was denied his free expression rights by the city of Natchitoches. Edwin Crayton, a devout Christian, sought to stand in front of Wal-Mart in Natchitoches with a sign protesting the corporation’s alleged position on gay marriage.
 
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mattskramer

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That's absurd--if you never talk about God, you are always promoting atheism. Get over it--If religions ever start charging for all the work they do to take care of Americas' truly needy, you will regret it.
You are not promoting anything but silence by not speaking. The work that Christians do has nothing to do with the topic.
 

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