CDZ Is Slavery America's Original Sin?

[jwoodie]

If slavery had existed for 150 years before the creation of the United States, how can it be described as our original sin? The answer is that it can't be blamed on our country unless you miraculously reset the date of its creation to 1619, when the first African slaves were sold to British colonialists in Jamestown. The principal reason for buying African slaves was their natural resistance to malaria., which was killing off the European workers in the Southern Colonies. Once purchased, they became an indispensable asset to labor intensive agriculture in those colonies.

Slavery was never popular in the Northern Colonies, and abolitionist movements began to spring up in the mid 1700s. However, resentment of the British government's authoritarian policies was also building and finally erupted into the War for Independence from Great Britain. After winning that war, the Colonies realized that their independence could not be protected unless a common government was formed. A proposed Constitution was hotly debated among the former colonies, and was ratified only after allowing the southern States to retain slavery in return for accepting joint responsibility for the war debts that had been accrued.

This compromise enabled the creation of the United States, but did not end the ever-growing abolitionist movement which culminated in the Civil War. Hundreds of thousands of Americans died in that conflagration, and it is an insult to those who died for that cause to now be accused of supporting the institution they fought against. If there is any original sin to be assigned, it was the widespread rape of African women by their slave masters. But this is not and should not be an indictment of the entire United States of America.

https://historicjamestowne.org/history/the-first-africans/

 

[irosie91]

I don't do MIRACULOUS ---I date slavery back----at the very least----7000 years

 

[ReinyDays]

No one likes talking about the genocide of the native inhabitants that Europeans found in America ...

 

[martybegan]

No one likes talking about the genocide of the native inhabitants that Europeans found in America ...

Exploitation, not genocide, and Europeans were exploiting each other for centuries before they landed in the Americas.

Considering the technological gap if the Europeans truly tried to wipe out the natives there wouldn't be a single Hispanic person with native blood left around.

 

[Circe]

No one likes talking about the genocide of the native inhabitants that Europeans found in America ...

Huh! Good point. I was going to say yes, you could consider slavery America's Original Sin, but there is the wipe-out of the Indians. (Cleveland and otherwise.) But I guess not: because that's the same deal as COVID ---- it wasn't about people. As much as 90% of American Indians, South first and North next, died of diseases never seen here before: tuberculosis, smallpox, measles (worse than you think), many others. The only disease believed to have come from the Americas to Europe was syphillis. But WE did not kill those Indians with those diseases (except one time, maybe, those infected blankets...); it was the little germies that did that, just like with COVID. The mayors and governors constantly blame, blame, us the people, but it's not us, it's the virus doing it.

So no, back to slavery as the Original Sin. Because that was done by people, and it didn't work out, did it? Brought all these blacks here and they reproduced and now look at the situation. They're better off and we're much worse off.

 

[progressive hunter]

No one likes talking about the genocide of the native inhabitants that Europeans found in America ...

nobody likes talking about how the american indians were killing off each other long before whiteman came here,,

 

[Donald H]

Quite ridiculous to suggest that it was! But it can serve as an introduction to the facts of the situation as it exists in America today.

The US Constitution failed to address the slavery issue with enough firmness and determination to put an end to the issue, due to compromises necessary to forming the union.

That lack of determination has caused the problem to fester until it has become the monstrous problem it is today. Other countries dealt with the slavery issue with enough firmness to at least reduce the problem to manageable levels. The US did not and now the problem is too big to handle.

Original sin? No one country is guilty of that any more than another.

 

[Circe]

If slavery had existed for 150 years before the creation of the United States, how can it be described as our original sin? The answer is that it can't be blamed on our country unless you miraculously reset the date of its creation to 1619, when the first African slaves were sold to British colonialists in Jamestown. The principal reason for buying African slaves was their natural resistance to malaria., which was killing off the European workers in the Southern Colonies. Once purchased, they became an indispensable asset to labor intensive agriculture in those colonies.

They wanted cheap labor. Whites died in droves of malaria from Virginia south, and don't even think about the Caribbean islands. Employers would have preferred white labor --- blacks made awful slaves -- but they were at least somewhat malaria-resistant. It was hardly just the United States: slave labor was greater in South America (and look at it now) and in the islands, which eventually were mostly taken over by blacks. We gave these prime living spots to blacks ----- this was a bad move so serious that I'd say they substantially benefitted compared to the sorry state of Africa right now in 2020. Most of our troubles have come from trying to get cheap labor from foreign poor people, and not just blacks. Hispanics and Chinese, and many, many of them. And they have all brought in disease --- malaria from slaves on the Spanish ships in the 1500s, leprosy from Mexico, the big San Francisco bubonic plague epidemic brought in by Chinese in the early 1900s (and it's still in the Southwest deserts) and now the COVID from China.

Maybe our Original Sin was the craving for cheap labor. Still is, and still is causing trouble. Look at all the Muslims and Indians and Pakis we bring in for cheap labor in the tech companies, and a lot end up terrorists.

 

[evenflow1969]

I don't do MIRACULOUS ---I date slavery back----at the very least----7000 years

Yep humans have been dark for a very long time. I would like to think we have been improving but I am not sure we are.

 

[martybegan]

Quite ridiculous to suggest that it was! But it can serve as an introduction to the facts of the situation as it exists in America today.

The US Constitution failed to address the slavery issue with enough firmness and determination to put an end to the issue, due to compromises necessary to forming the union.

That lack of determination has caused the problem to fester until it has become the monstrous problem it is today. Other countries dealt with the slavery issue with enough firmness to at least reduce the problem to manageable levels. The US did not and now the problem is too big to handle.

Original sin? No one country is guilty of that any more than another.

Slavery as an issue was settled by the Civil War. The issues we face now are from the failed transition at the end of slavery as well as the failed re-integration of the rebel States back into the country. The death of Lincoln removed the one force that could have tempered the Radical Republicans while at the same time been harsh enough on the southerners to force them to change their plan to subjugate the freed slaves via proxy enslavement. JWB's bullet did far more damage to the US in the decades that followed then all the other bullets shot in the Civil War combined.

 

[ReinyDays]

Exploitation, not genocide, and Europeans were exploiting each other for centuries before they landed in the Americas.
Considering the technological gap if the Europeans truly tried to wipe out the natives there wouldn't be a single Hispanic person with native blood left around.

Killing the people is one way to commit genocide ... but not the only way ... Conquistadors burned everything they found in Meso-America, enslaving the people and forcing them to convert to Catholicism ... genocide is also destroying the culture, the history, the identity of a people ...

I'm fine if you what to call this exploitation, but do you think this is America's original sin? ...

 

[Donald H]

The lesson: If you take a car and treat it in a manner that turns it into a wreck that's hardly capable of running and it's engine won't start reliably because of abuse, then you OWN the problems.

If you take a black person and ................................. etc. then you will OWN the problems.

You can run the car over a cliff and go buy a new one!

You can't run a human being over a cliff!

And that's the lesson!

So now that everybody should be capable of understanding the lesson, what is the solution to the problem?

 

[Mac-7]

So now that everybody should be capable of understanding the lesson, what is the solution to the problem?

Liberals should stop dividing the races

 

[Donald H]

Quite ridiculous to suggest that it was! But it can serve as an introduction to the facts of the situation as it exists in America today.

The US Constitution failed to address the slavery issue with enough firmness and determination to put an end to the issue, due to compromises necessary to forming the union.

That lack of determination has caused the problem to fester until it has become the monstrous problem it is today. Other countries dealt with the slavery issue with enough firmness to at least reduce the problem to manageable levels. The US did not and now the problem is too big to handle.

Original sin? No one country is guilty of that any more than another.

Slavery as an issue was settled by the Civil War. The issues we face now are from the failed transition at the end of slavery as well as the failed re-integration of the rebel States back into the country. The death of Lincoln removed the one force that could have tempered the Radical Republicans while at the same time been harsh enough on the southerners to force them to change their plan to subjugate the freed slaves via proxy enslavement. JWB's bullet did far more damage to the US in the decades that followed then all the other bullets shot in the Civil War combined.

It's a good thing that it's being discussed Marty. So just read my 'lesson' post because it says pretty much the same as how you put it, but in an easier to understand way.

 

[Donald H]

So now that everybody should be capable of understanding the lesson, what is the solution to the problem?

Liberals should stop dividing the races

Somewhat true, as it would be somewhat true if you said conservatives should do likewise. The solution is not in blaming your political opponents. You didn't even understand the simple 'lesson'!

 

[martybegan]

Exploitation, not genocide, and Europeans were exploiting each other for centuries before they landed in the Americas.
Considering the technological gap if the Europeans truly tried to wipe out the natives there wouldn't be a single Hispanic person with native blood left around.

Killing the people is one way to commit genocide ... but not the only way ... Conquistadors burned everything they found in Meso-America, enslaving the people and forcing them to convert to Catholicism ... genocide is also destroying the culture, the history, the identity of a people ...

I'm fine if you what to call this exploitation, but do you think this is America's original sin? ...

I disagree. Genocide is Genocide, it is the conscious decision to remove a given people off the face of the earth because of who they are.

The conquistadors were after gold, land and slaves, they weren't out to eliminate the natives, why waste a resource?

I am not a big fan of the generalization of something as an "original sin". Especially since everyone else at the time it was implemented was doing it, and we weren't even a country at the time it was implemented.

We were later to the party than some people eliminating it, earlier than others, the reason we had to fight over it was unique to our federal nature, and the differing economic development paths of our to main regions at the time, North and South. (at that point the West was pretty much the North).

 

[martybegan]

Quite ridiculous to suggest that it was! But it can serve as an introduction to the facts of the situation as it exists in America today.

The US Constitution failed to address the slavery issue with enough firmness and determination to put an end to the issue, due to compromises necessary to forming the union.

That lack of determination has caused the problem to fester until it has become the monstrous problem it is today. Other countries dealt with the slavery issue with enough firmness to at least reduce the problem to manageable levels. The US did not and now the problem is too big to handle.

Original sin? No one country is guilty of that any more than another.

Slavery as an issue was settled by the Civil War. The issues we face now are from the failed transition at the end of slavery as well as the failed re-integration of the rebel States back into the country. The death of Lincoln removed the one force that could have tempered the Radical Republicans while at the same time been harsh enough on the southerners to force them to change their plan to subjugate the freed slaves via proxy enslavement. JWB's bullet did far more damage to the US in the decades that followed then all the other bullets shot in the Civil War combined.

It's a good thing that it's being discussed Marty. So just read my 'lesson' post because it says pretty much the same as how you put it, but in an easier to understand way.

What is the problem?

Why is our history a problem that has to be solved in some way?

 

[miketx]

If slavery had existed for 150 years before the creation of the United States, how can it be described as our original sin? The answer is that it can't be blamed on our country unless you miraculously reset the date of its creation to 1619, when the first African slaves were sold to British colonialists in Jamestown. The principal reason for buying African slaves was their natural resistance to malaria., which was killing off the European workers in the Southern Colonies. Once purchased, they became an indispensable asset to labor intensive agriculture in those colonies.

Slavery was never popular in the Northern Colonies, and abolitionist movements began to spring up in the mid 1700s. However, resentment of the British government's authoritarian policies was also building and finally erupted into the War for Independence from Great Britain. After winning that war, the Colonies realized that their independence could not be protected unless a common government was formed. A proposed Constitution was hotly debated among the former colonies, and was ratified only after allowing the southern States to retain slavery in return for accepting joint responsibility for the war debts that had been accrued.

This compromise enabled the creation of the United States, but did not end the ever-growing abolitionist movement which culminated in the Civil War. Hundreds of thousands of Americans died in that conflagration, and it is an insult to those who died for that cause to now be accused of supporting the institution they fought against. If there is any original sin to be assigned, it was the widespread rape of African women by their slave masters. But this is not and should not be an indictment of the entire United States of America.

https://historicjamestowne.org/history/the-first-africans/

I'd say creating democrats was.

 

[Mac-7]

So now that everybody should be capable of understanding the lesson, what is the solution to the problem?

Liberals should stop dividing the races

Somewhat true, as it would be somewhat true if you said conservatives should do likewise. The solution is not in blaming your political opponents. You didn't even understand the simple 'lesson'!

Conservatives are not dividing the races

dont blame the victims of a black president with a chip on his shoulder and the Black Lies Matter crowd

 

[Donald H]

Quite ridiculous to suggest that it was! But it can serve as an introduction to the facts of the situation as it exists in America today.

The US Constitution failed to address the slavery issue with enough firmness and determination to put an end to the issue, due to compromises necessary to forming the union.

That lack of determination has caused the problem to fester until it has become the monstrous problem it is today. Other countries dealt with the slavery issue with enough firmness to at least reduce the problem to manageable levels. The US did not and now the problem is too big to handle.

Original sin? No one country is guilty of that any more than another.

Slavery as an issue was settled by the Civil War. The issues we face now are from the failed transition at the end of slavery as well as the failed re-integration of the rebel States back into the country. The death of Lincoln removed the one force that could have tempered the Radical Republicans while at the same time been harsh enough on the southerners to force them to change their plan to subjugate the freed slaves via proxy enslavement. JWB's bullet did far more damage to the US in the decades that followed then all the other bullets shot in the Civil War combined.

It's a good thing that it's being discussed Marty. So just read my 'lesson' post because it says pretty much the same as how you put it, but in an easier to understand way.

What is the problem?

Why is our history a problem that has to be solved in some way?

Your history isn't the problem Marty. You didn't understand the lesson so I'll elaborate a bit more so you'll be sure to get it.

America's white people wrecked the black population but England didn't and they have cars that are in great condition after the roughly equal amount of time they (the cars) have been owned.

You get this Marty. No America should be missing the point.