Is Shapiro Death Penalty Announcement a "Game Changer" ?

[JoeB131]

Which is why we need to execute, when there is clear proof of guilt.

We can't execute everyone... you need to litigate it for years to determine 'clear proof", which is why we've had 190 people exonerated from Death row out of some 8000 sent there.
If you start executing more people, then you will have more mistakes not less.

 

[Frankeneinstein]

And how is the death penalty going to prevent that?

because they'll be dead

It seems to me that if you know you are going to be executed, you are going to take down as many people as you can before you go. Maybe even some of the guards.

That only proves the execution did not come fast enough.

 

[Frankeneinstein]

Charles Manson, Richard Speck, William Heirens never committed another murder. They died in their prison cells.

Manson never actually committed any murder.

 

[protectionist]

And how is the death penalty going to prevent that? It seems to me that if you know you are going to be executed, you are going to take down as many people as you can before you go. Maybe even some of the guards.

If you are putting hundreds of thousands of people on death row, then you are going to need a lot more guards to control them, otherwise, why not take out a guard or two.

Well, the statistical record doesn't show that. In fact, there never has been an instance like what you describe. But if what you said were true, that would be the best argument for getting rid of these trashbags ASAP.

 

[protectionist]

Locking him up for life is an equal deterrent. And if you get it wrong, you can undo it.



Unlikely they'll do it outside of prison if you lock them up for life.

Charles Manson, Richard Speck, William Heirens never committed another murder. They died in their prison cells.

NO, it is NOT an "equal deterrent." Dead people don't kill again. Some imprisoned ones do. Duh!

And the death penalty should only be for those whose guilt is beyond question.

So 3 guys (Manson, Speck, Heirens) never committed another murder. OK.
That's good. Wanna see a list of 72 who did ?

"Unlikely they'll do it outside of prison if you lock them up for life. ???
Donald Dillbeck -- Florida. Killed policeman in 1979. Escaped from prison in 1990, kidnapped and killed female motorist after escape. Condemned 1991.
---------------------------------------
Edward Kennedy -- Florida. Killed motel clerk. Sentenced to Life. Escaped 1981. Killed policeman and male civilian after prison break. Executed 1992.
----------------------------------------------
Dawud Mu'Min -- Virginia. Killed cab driver in holdup. Sentenced 1973. Escaped 1988. Raped/killed woman 1988. Condemned 1989. Executed 1997.
---------------------------------------
Viva Nash -- Utah/Arizona. Two terms of life for murder in Utah, 1978. Escaped in 1982. Murdered again. Condemned in Arizona, 1983.
---------------------------------------
Randy Greenawalt -- Escaped from Prison in 1978, while serving a life sentence for a 1974 murder. He then murdered a family of 4 people, shotgunning them to death, including a toddler.
---------------------------------------
Norman Parker -- Florida/D.C. Life term in Florida for murder, 1966. Escaped 1978. Life on another count of murder in 1979.
---------------------------------------
Winford Stokes -- Missouri. Ruled insane on two counts of murder 1969. Escaped from asylum, 1978. Murdered again. Executed for this murder, 1990.
--------------------------------------------
Randolph Dial -- Oklahoma. Life for murder 1986. Escaped from prison with deputy warden's wife as kidnap victim. 1989. Still at large. Warden's wife never found
-----------------------------------------------------

 

[Mac-7]

I haven't read the latest data but I do recall resding that the presence of a death penalty was not a deterrent to those who commit capital murder. I've changed on this issue over time, we shouldn't play God even though there are henious stuations where anger clouds ones objectivity and the death penalty seems fitting.

I havent changed

The death penalty may not deter everyone, but it will remove dangerous criminals from society

 

[protectionist]

I havent changed

The death penalty may not deter everyone, but it will remove dangerous criminals from society

It ALWAYS deters those who receive it.

 

[AZrailwhale]

So what?

That just tells me we have too many people in prison for non-murder we lock up with the murderers. So let's lock up the murderers and handle the petty criminals differently.

Instead we lock up petty criminals with murderers and wonder why they come out so much worse, if they come out at all.

Petty criminals don’t go to prison. By the time a criminal manages to get sentenced to prison, he or she has gone through a whole bunch of probations and plea bargains getting major crimes pled down to misdemeanors. The people in prison are at best career criminals, at worst serial felons who having been getting away with a life of crime for years or even decades.

 

[shockedcanadian]

Petty criminals don’t go to prison. By the time a criminal manages to get sentenced to prison, he or she has gone through a whole bunch of probations and plea bargains getting major crimes pled down to misdemeanors. The people in prison are at best career criminals, at worst serial felons who having been getting away with a life of crime for years or even decades.

Thwts just not true. In some cases of.course, but is very general. People all the time make errors based on emotion or, made.bad decisions. Be it Alec Baldwin and his gun shooting or a.person drinking too much and killing someone on the rosd or.otherwise. Your suggestion doesn't take into account so many variables. This is why the justice systems in N.A fail while Europes drives rehabiliation and is more effective at actually reducing crime. They wont allow certain prison industries to.destroy their nations or alow petty criminals to.be unabke.to.wrk etc. What a failed, vicious approach.

 

[Red Front]

Charles Stimson, JD, Acting Chief of Staff and Senior Legal Fellow of the Heritage Foundation, in a Dec. 20, 2019 article, “The Death Penalty Is Appropriate,” available at heritage.org, stated:

“That said, the death penalty serves three legitimate penological objectives: general deterrence, specific deterrence, and retribution.
The first, general deterrence, is the message that gets sent to people who are thinking about committing heinous crimes that they shouldn’t do it or else they might end up being sentenced to death.
The second, specific deterrence, is specific to the defendant. It simply means that the person who is subjected to the death penalty won’t be alive to kill other people.
The third penological goal, retribution, is an expression of society’s right to make a moral judgment by imposing a punishment on a wrongdoer befitting the crime he has committed. Twenty-nine states, and the people’s representatives in Congress have spoken loudly; the death penalty should be available for the worst of the worst.”
Dec. 20, 2019

Armstrong Williams, Owner and Manager of Howard Stirk Holdings I & II Broadcast Television Stations, in a May, 25, 2021 article, “The Death Penalty Remains the Strongest Deterrent to Violent Crime,” available at thehill.com, stated:

“There must be some form to hold murderers accountable and, historically, the death penalty has been the most effective way of doing so. It could very well be that a firing squad is the most humane way, especially compared to lethal injection, where there have been cases of prisoners experiencing excruciating pain for sometimes over an hour. These examples are certainly worthy of our consideration and discussion. But one thing is clear: We still need the death penalty, if for no other reason, as a deterrent for other potential criminals.”
May, 25, 2021

David Muhlhausen, PhD, Research Fellow in Empirical Policy Analysis at the Heritage Foundation, stated the following in his Oct. 4, 2014 article “Capital Punishment Works: It Deters Crime,” available at dailysignal.com:

“Some crimes are so heinous and inherently wrong that they demand strict penalties – up to and including life sentences or even death. Most Americans recognize this principle as just…
Studies of the death penalty have reached various conclusions about its effectiveness in deterring crime. But… the majority of studies that track effects over many years and across states or counties find a deterrent effect.
Indeed, other recent investigations, using a variety of samples and statistical methods, consistently demonstrate a strong link between executions and reduced murder rates… In short, capital punishment does, in fact, save lives.”
Oct. 4, 2014

​

Michael Summers, PhD, MBA, Professor of Management Science at Pepperdine University, wrote in his Nov. 2, 2007 article “Capital Punishment Works” in the Wall Street Journal:​

“[O]ur recent research shows that each execution carried out is correlated with about 74 fewer murders the following year… The study examined the relationship between the number of executions and the number of murders in the U.S. for the 26-year period from 1979 to 2004, using data from publicly available FBI sources… There seems to be an obvious negative correlation in that when executions increase, murders decrease, and when executions decrease, murders increase…
In the early 1980s, the return of the death penalty was associated with a drop in the number of murders. In the mid-to-late 1980s, when the number of executions stabilized at about 20 per year, the number of murders increased. Throughout the 1990s, our society increased the number of executions, and the number of murders plummeted. Since 2001, there has been a decline in executions and an increase in murders.
It is possible that this correlated relationship could be mere coincidence, so we did a regression analysis on the 26-year relationship. The association was significant at the .00005 level, which meant the odds against the pattern being simply a random happening are about 18,000 to one. Further analysis revealed that each execution seems to be associated with 71 fewer murders in the year the execution took place…
We know that, for whatever reason, there is a simple but dramatic relationship between the number of executions carried out and a corresponding reduction in the number of murders.”
Nov. 2, 2007

​

Paul H. Rubin, PhD, Professor of Economics at Emory University, wrote in his Feb. 1, 2006 testimony “Statistical Evidence on Capital Punishment and the Deterrence of Homicide” before the US Senate Judiciary Committee on the Constitution, Civil Rights, and Property Rights, available at judiciary.senate.gov:​

“Recent research on the relationship between capital punishment and homicide has created a consensus among most economists who have studied the issue that capital punishment deters murder. Early studies from the 1970s and 1980s reached conflicting results. However, recent studies have exploited better data and more sophisticated statistical techniques. The modern refereed studies have consistently shown that capital punishment has a strong deterrent effect, with each execution deterring between 3 and 18 murders…
The literature is easy to summarize: almost all modern studies and all the refereed studies find a significant deterrent effect of capital punishment. Only one study questions these results. To an economist, this is not surprising: we expect criminals and potential criminals to respond to sanctions, and execution is the most severe sanction available.”
Feb. 1, 2006

​

Hashem Dezhbakhsh, PhD, Professor of Economics at Emory University, and Joanna Shepherd, PhD, Associate Professor of Law at Emory University, wrote in their July 2003 study “The Deterrent Effect of Capital Punishment: Evidence from a ‘Judicial Experiment'” in Economic Inquiry:​

“[There is] strong evidence for the deterrent effect of capital punishment… Each execution results, on average, in eighteen fewer murders with a margin of error of plus or minus ten. Tests show that results are not driven by tougher sentencing laws and are robust to many alternative specifications…
The results are boldly clear: executions deter murders and murder rates increase substantially during moratoriums. The results are consistent across before-and-after comparisons and regressions regardless of the data’s aggregation level, the time period, or the specific variable used to measure executions… [E]xecutions provide a large benefit to society by deterring murders.”
July 2003

​

H. Naci Mocan, PhD, Professor and Chair of Economics at Louisiana State University, wrote in his 2003 study “Getting Off Death Row: Commuted Sentences and the Deterrent Effect of Capital Punishment” in the Journal of Law and Economics:​

“Controlling for a variety of state characteristics, we investigate the impact of the execution, commutation, and removal rates, homicide arrest rate, sentencing rate, imprisonment rate, and prison death rate on the rate of homicide. The models are estimated in a number of different forms, controlling for state fixed effects, common time trends, and state-specific time trends. We find a significant relationship among the execution, removal, and commutation rates and the rate of homicide. Each additional execution decreases homicides by about five, and each additional commutation increases homicides by the same amount, while one additional removal from death row generates one additional homicide.”
2003

​

Cass R. Sunstein, PhD, Professor of Law at the University of Chicago, wrote in his Mar. 2005 paper “Is Capital Punishment Morally Required? The Relevance of Life-Life Tradeoffs” on papers.ssrn.com:​

“[C]apital punishment may be morally required not for retributive reasons, but in order to prevent the taking of innocent lives…
The foundation for our argument is a large and growing body of evidence that capital punishment may well have a deterrent effect, possibly a quite powerful one. A leading study [The Deterrent Effect of Capital Punishment: Evidence from a ‘Judicial Experiment,’ Hashem Dezhbakhsh and Joanna Shepherd, July 2003] suggests that each execution prevents some eighteen murders, on average… If the current evidence is even roughly correct, then a refusal to impose capital punishment will effectively condemn numerous innocent people to death…
Contrary to widely-held beliefs, based on partial information or older studies, a wave of recent evidence suggests the possibility that capital punishment saves lives…
Capital punishment may well have strong deterrent effects; there is evidence that few categories of murders are inherently un-deterrable, even so-called crimes of passion; some studies find extremely large deterrent effects; error and arbitrariness undoubtedly occur, but the evidence of deterrence suggests that prospective murderers are receiving a clear signal.”
Mar. 2005

​

George W. Bush, MBA, 43rd President of the United States, in an Oct. 17, 2000 debate with Al Gore at Washington University, said in response to the question “Do both of you believe that the death penalty actually deters crime?”:​

“I do, that’s the only reason to be for it. I don’t think you should support the death penalty to seek revenge. I don’t think that’s right. I think the reason to support the death penalty is because it saves other people’s lives.”
Oct. 17, 2000

​

George E. Pataki, JD, 53rd Governor of New York State, in an Aug. 30, 1996 press release titled “Statement on Anniversary of Death Penalty by Governor Pataki,” stated:​

“New Yorkers live in safer communities today because we are finally creating a climate that protects our citizens and causes criminals to fear arrest, prosecution and punishment. …This has occurred in part because of the strong signal that the death penalty sent to violent criminals and murderers: we won’t excuse criminals, we will punish them…
I sponsored the death penalty laws because of my firm conviction that it would act as a significant deterrent and provide a true measure of justice to murder victims and their loved ones… I have every confidence that it will continue to deter murders, will continue to enhance public safety and will be enforced fairly and justly.”
Aug. 30, 1996

​

Ernest Van Den Haag, PhD, late Professor of Jurisprudence at Fordham University, in an Oct. 17, 1983 New York Times Op-Ed article titled “For the Death Penalty,” wrote the following:​

“Common sense, lately bolstered by statistics, tells us that the death penalty will deter murder, if anything can. People fear nothing more than death. Therefore, nothing will deter a criminal more than the fear of death. Death is final. But where there is life there is hope…
Wherefore, life in prison is less feared. Murderers clearly prefer it to execution — otherwise, they would not try to be sentenced to life in prison instead of death. (Only an infinitesimal percentage of murderers are suicidal.) Therefore, a life sentence must be less deterrent than a death sentence. And we must execute murderers as long as it is merely possible that their execution protects citizens from future murder.”
Oct. 17, 1983

​

Lewis Franklin Powell, Jr., LLM, late Justice of the US Supreme Court, in a June 29, 1972 Furman v. Georgia dissenting opinion, stated:​

“On the basis of the literature and studies currently available, I find myself in agreement with the conclusions drawn by the Royal Commission [Report on Capital Punishment, 1949-1953] following its exhaustive study of this issue:
‘The general conclusion which we reach, after careful review of all the evidence we have been able to obtain as to the deterrent effect of capital punishment, may be stated as follows. Prima facie, the penalty of death is likely to have a stronger effect as a deterrent to normal human beings than any other form of punishment, and there is some evidence (though no convincing statistical evidence) that this is in fact so.'”
June 29, 1972

 

[Mac-7]

Thwts just not true. In some cases of.course, but is very general. People all the time make errors based on emotion or, made.bad decisions. Be it Alec Baldwin and his gun shooting or a.person drinking too much and killing someone on the rosd or.otherwise. Your suggestion doesn't take into account so many variables. This is why the justice systems in N.A fail while Europes drives rehabiliation and is more effective at actually reducing crime. They wont allow certain prison industries to.destroy their nations or alow petty criminals to.be unabke.to.wrk etc. What a failed, vicious approach.

You do it your way on Canada and allow us to make our own choices in America

 

[JoeB131]

Well, the statistical record doesn't show that. In fact, there never has been an instance like what you describe. But if what you said were true, that would be the best argument for getting rid of these trashbags ASAP.

Not sure what statistical record you are talking about. Death Row inmates are kept under much tighter security. Which only works because there are so very few of them, only about 2000. If we had to do that to every last one of the 25,000 murders we have every year, the cost would be astronomical.

The reality is, the cost of one execution (including increased security and years of litigation) costs more than it would cost to incarcerte 10 prisoners for life.

NO, it is NOT an "equal deterrent." Dead people don't kill again. Some imprisoned ones do. Duh!

And the death penalty should only be for those whose guilt is beyond question.

So 3 guys (Manson, Speck, Heirens) never committed another murder. OK.
That's good. Wanna see a list of 72 who did ?

Nope. Don't really care. As a matter of pure practicality, we don't have the resources to execute everyone convicted of murder. And you have to give some of them at least the hope of parole simply to keep them well behaved. So you have 72 who committed murders again, how many got paroled and didn't commit another murder?

 

[shockedcanadian]

You do it your way on Canada and allow us to make our own choices in America

This way is universal. You think that any country has a unique human nature and/or that emotional/bad decisions may not actually reflect a persons true nature? Plenty of people have their first charge as first degree murder, they could have been Saints before that first and only crime. By the way, your approach is similar to ours, our Security Industrial Complex has bankrupted us economicaly and morally.

 

[Mac-7]

This way is universal. You think that any country has a unique human nature and/or that emotional/bad decisions may not actually reflect a persons true nature? Plenty of people have their first charge as first degree murder, they could have been Saints before that first and only crime. By the way, your approach is similar to ours, our Security Industrial Complex has bankrupted us economicaly and morally.

Again, if you want to express your opinion about subjects that are out of your jurisdiction as a Canadian be my guest

But dont try to tell Americans how to run their own country

You presume too much

 

[GMCGeneral]

I bet bleeding hearts like JoeB would've loved to see Ted Bundy out on the streets rather than strapped into Old Sparky.

 

[JoeB131]

I bet bleeding hearts like JoeB would've loved to see Ted Bundy out on the streets rather than strapped into Old Sparky.

No, I'd like to see him spend the rest of his life in prison until he dies an old man, like Speck and Manson did.

What I don't want to see is some poor black person get executed for a crime he didn't commit because our racist, corrupt justice system makes mistakes.

 

[Polishprince]

No, I'd like to see him spend the rest of his life in prison until he dies an old man, like Speck and Manson did.

What I don't want to see is some poor black person get executed for a crime he didn't commit because our racist, corrupt justice system makes mistakes.

The transexual murderer Richard Speck, died long before he made it to old age.

Proof that sex hormones aren't really as harmless as Grooming libs like to say.

 

[GMCGeneral]

No, I'd like to see him spend the rest of his life in prison until he dies an old man, like Speck and Manson did.

What I don't want to see is some poor black person get executed for a crime he didn't commit because our racist, corrupt justice system makes mistakes.

So rather than the poor black dude take responsibility for the crime he committed, you blame Ole ****** again.

 

[JoeB131]

So rather than the poor black dude take responsibility for the crime he committed, you blame Ole ****** again.

Are you dense? We put people on death row for crimes they didn't commit. Sometimes we catch it, a few times we haven't.

You don't have the brains God gave dogs, do you?

 

[JoeB131]

The transexual murderer Richard Speck, died long before he made it to old age.

Proof that sex hormones aren't really as harmless as Grooming libs like to say.

First, there's no evidence he was trans or getting hormones. He was just fat and had the man-boobs.