Is religion really so bad?

[Coyote]

To hear some people you'd think so...or you'd think SOME is...but that would be looking at it only one part of it.

I do think religion helps us to think of a higher purpose, to think outside of ourselves and our immediate needs, to think of others. And that is a good thing. I'm not big into "salvation" as a formal concept...and I am firm believer that we create our own heaven and hell through our actions on earth.

I'm listening to music, the true voice of the sacred. Cat Stevens...Yusuf Islam is one. What he says makes sense and echos all the world's great faiths:

Ten Promises To Peace

Ten Promises To Peace


What has happened to the Muslim Community since the Prophet Muhammad’s passing (peace be upon him) is anything but the message of unity, love and peace he delivered. Not entirely their fault because those who prosper by dividing mankind into collective groups, those who draw lines between people and families and then make deals with violent would-be-lords, presidents and dictators, must shoulder much of the blame also.


After entering Islam through the study of the Qur’an, what shocked me was how little people knew or wanted to know about the commonalities shared between Islam and other Faiths. The partial reason for this is the ‘Blame Game’; everybody accusing the ‘others’ for the terrible condition of the world: Afghanistan, Palestine, Bosnia, Iraq, all burning flames of hatred. Whereas the fundamental message of the Prophet, calling for understanding, prayer and charity under God, is totally lost in the gun smoke and fury of the explosive wars that continue to fog many people’s understanding of Islam. Following my conversion, I realised the real battle front was ignorance and mutual antagonism, was left unattended.


After many years, and millions of fatalities the world is still a very dangerous place, and continuously in conflict. So what can we do? Well, I think we can all promise to try and make it better by following the things we all say believe in.


Lessons from the Ten Commandments


Some people perceive believers in a Divine Code of life as unfashionable and unrealistic. But these people have left the safety of God’s palace of peace, and chosen to pitch their tents outside. That’s their choice, and choice is part of the license God has given every human being. However, when laws are broken and if people commit crimes and cross the lines, you can’t blame God for what happens next. Law and Order are primary requisites that God has provided humanity to maintain peace within the palace.


One of the most important objectives of all religion is teaching people how to live together. The lessons I learnt as a school child, the Ten Commandments, are not even referred to or looked at anymore. Yet these were the rules laid down by our Creator, for the benefit and betterment of all mankind. Why are they so easily overlooked?


When we hear that over four fifths of the world’s population believe or have a faith, why are we not profiting from things we already hold as valuable and right. In Islam, the ‘Ten’ are repeated in the Qur’an and other sacred Books in so many verses and chapters. This is a plus! What is missing is commitment.


People have put their nationality and customs above the commitment to abide by a Divine template of universal rights and responsibilities.


Even the Universal Declaration of Human Rights says: All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood. It goes on to describe in detail what those rights are.


So what happens? Why do some of us look down at others, and consider their lives less than equal with our own? When a person kills another from the same race and society, it’s called murder. When someone kills someone from another country it’s war. It’s a complicated subject and cannot be dealt with in this short talk, but we can realize the basis of the problem if we revisit God’s commands.​

Rest of the article at link.

And..for Christianity? What could be better expressed then in Connie Dover's Ubi Caritas.....my heart and soul



WHERE charity and love are, God is there.
Christ's love has gathered us into one.
Let us rejoice and be pleased in Him.
Let us fear, and let us love the living God.
And may we love each other with a sincere heart.

WHERE charity and love are, God is there.
As we are gathered into one body,
Beware, lest we be divided in mind.
Let evil impulses stop, let controversy cease,
And may Christ our God be in our midst.

WHERE charity and love are, God is there.
And may we with the saints also,
See Thy face in glory, O Christ our God:
The joy that is immense and good,
Unto the ages through infinite ages. Amen.

 

[Vastator]

All the positive aspects and attributes ushered forth through ones religious faith can likewise be done without believing in lies and falsehoods. Though to do so, without belief of an eternal reward requires more courage, and conviction...

 

[Coyote]

All the positive aspects and attributes ushered forth through ones religious faith can likewise be done without believing in lies and falsehoods. Though to do so, without belief of an eternal reward requires more courage, and conviction...

Yes...I think I agree. One doesn't have to be religious to be good.

But there is something about religion, the mysticism, the search for god and meaning that is important.

 

[Eaglewings]

I actually feel that religion is what causes so many problems with the crazies who tell you that you have to jump through hoops, starts wars and greed

I believe in the spiritual beauty of a higher being and for me that is Jesus.. It is a spiritual connection, and I do feel that each one of us die with a beautiful or ugly energy which is our spirit..

As an addiction counselor the only way to achieve long time sobriety is to give the things that are out of our control to our higher power, I actually picture God's hands taking away my fears and worries, and let it go. .Being honest and loving is basically what the new testament is all about.

We really have 0 power over anything, except for how we respond ..How we chose to forgive, love, and act in our life's.

Good thread.!

.

 

[Coyote]

I think the good and bad in religion is determined by the followers more than the faith. Every major religion has something incredible to say...but people seem to miss the message too often, or selectively ignore parts of it.

 

[Vastator]

I think the good and bad in religion is determined by the followers more than the faith. Every major religion has something incredible to say...but people seem to miss the message too often, or selectively ignore parts of it.

Or they find glaring inconsistencies, and/or outright lies in it; which makes them question, if not outright discard the "good" parts.

 

[Eaglewings]

I think the good and bad in religion is determined by the followers more than the faith. Every major religion has something incredible to say...but people seem to miss the message too often, or selectively ignore parts of it.

My boys went to a simple Lutheran elementary not all religious , my focus was on their inner beings more so than academics at that age..A person can be the smartest, richest person but a complete evil person inside.

Anyway.. It does say in the bible to believe like a child, not make it so complicated. So simple, yet people make it so complicated.

.

 

[Vastator]

I think the good and bad in religion is determined by the followers more than the faith. Every major religion has something incredible to say...but people seem to miss the message too often, or selectively ignore parts of it.

My boys went to a simple Lutheran elementary not all religious , my focus was on their inner beings more so than academics at that age..A person can be the smartest, richest person but a complete evil person inside.

Anyway.. It does say in the bible to believe like a child, not make it so complicated. So simple, yet people make it so complicated.

.

Believe like a child...? Children question everything... "Why" being chief amongst said questions.

 

[Eaglewings]

I think the good and bad in religion is determined by the followers more than the faith. Every major religion has something incredible to say...but people seem to miss the message too often, or selectively ignore parts of it.

My boys went to a simple Lutheran elementary not all religious , my focus was on their inner beings more so than academics at that age..A person can be the smartest, richest person but a complete evil person inside.

Anyway.. It does say in the bible to believe like a child, not make it so complicated. So simple, yet people make it so complicated.

.

Believe like a child...? Children question everything... "Why" being chief amongst said questions.

LOL.. yes you are right..haaaa but when they get into the 1st grade it seems like the toddler Why" stops a bit.


.

 

[MarathonMike]

I think it is mostly about devotion to your beliefs. I am as committed to my beliefs as any religious person but they are not based in any religion but more about what makes sense to me. Much of what was taught to me about Christianity did not make sense to me as a kid and still does not. Islam totally does not make sense to me.

So no, religion is not a bad thing, but humans have a way of taking something that is not inherently bad, and making it bad through their own greed and pride.

 

[sealybobo]

All the positive aspects and attributes ushered forth through ones religious faith can likewise be done without believing in lies and falsehoods. Though to do so, without belief of an eternal reward requires more courage, and conviction...

We could go back to going to the colossium on Sundays to watch prisoners aka gladiators kill each other.

 

[gallantwarrior]

All the positive aspects and attributes ushered forth through ones religious faith can likewise be done without believing in lies and falsehoods. Though to do so, without belief of an eternal reward requires more courage, and conviction...

Yes...I think I agree. One doesn't have to be religious to be good.

But there is something about religion, the mysticism, the search for god and meaning that is important.

For many people, that is true. I would not wish to destroy that faith and extend respect to those who have their faith. But I have no wish to have someone else push their belief on me. I do just fine with my "Golden Rule" philosophy. Live and let live and do no harm...both work for me. Of course, others are not of the same temper and they view my philosophy as harmful to their own belief. I cannot help that.
If someone wishes to submit to various restrictions to their diets, or behaviors, or associations, I have no problem with that. If you come crosswise with someone whose beliefs are crosswise of yours, move on.

 

[gallantwarrior]

I actually feel that religion is what causes so many problems with the crazies who tell you that you have to jump through hoops, starts wars and greed

I believe in the spiritual beauty of a higher being and for me that is Jesus.. It is a spiritual connection, and I do feel that each one of us die with a beautiful or ugly energy which is our spirit..

As an addiction counselor the only way to achieve long time sobriety is to give the things that are out of our control to our higher power, I actually picture God's hands taking away my fears and worries, and let it go. .Being honest and loving is basically what the new testament is all about.

We really have 0 power over anything, except for how we respond ..How we chose to forgive, love, and act in our life's.

Good thread.!

.

Yes, one very unfortunate aspect of religion is the belief that only those who follow one particular view are "right" and acceptable to god. That comes directly from the desire of those who lead such groups to seize power and control. Sad to say, such power hungry controllers find no lack of sycophants willing and able to submit to such control and direction.

 

[Vandalshandle]

I have a friend, whose Christian religion is very quiet. He never preaches to the heathens unless they want to hear. He lives a life that is as Christ like as he can, and he always has a message of hope and comfort if you are in need of such. One would never know, unless one knew him like I do, that he and his wife are totally dedicated to Christ. He does his praying alone. I respect him enormously, in spite of the fact that we share no beliefs at all.

I just wish that there were more Christians like him. Frankly, I don't know any.

 

[Coyote]

I have a friend, whose Christian religion is very quiet. He never preaches to the heathens unless they want to hear. He lives a life that is as Christ like as he can, and he always has a message of hope and comfort if you are in need of such. One would never know, unless one knew him like I do, that he and his wife are totally dedicated to Christ. He does his praying alone. I respect him enormously, in spite of the fact that we share no beliefs at all.

I just wish that there were more Christians like him. Frankly, I don't know any.

My coworker/supervisor is like that - I respect her a lot, and love her - she's a true Christian.

 

[Chuz Life]

I am not religious myself but I think it's generally a good thing for society overall. Sometimes, I play religious tunes on my guitar as a way to stay connected to my grandfather and my father but in most cases, I don't even know the words, I just remember the tunes.

I'm weird, I guess.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Church membership in America is falling. I think that this started along with television, and televangelism, which I think that all thinking people recognize as nothing but a Sunday substitute for World Wide Wrestling that is broadcast on Saturdays. In the meantime, the Catholic Church has become so out of date, and out of touch with all but the superstitious and tradition steeped individuals. The less I say about the LDS and weird splitter sects, the better. Mainstream protestant churches can't seem to figure out how to get converts, unless they resort to rassal dassel.

I suspect that religion in America is dying. I say that without any moral judgment on the matter.

 

[gallantwarrior]

Church membership in America is falling. I think that this started along with television, and televangelism, which I think that all thinking people recognize as nothing but a Sunday substitute for World Wide Wrestling that is broadcast on Saturdays. In the meantime, the Catholic Church has become so out of date, and out of touch with all but the superstitious and tradition steeped individuals. The less I say about the LDS and weird splitter sects, the better. Mainstream protestant churches can't seem to figure out how to get converts, unless they resort to rassal dassel.

I suspect that religion in America is dying. I say that without any moral judgment on the matter.

That might have some relationship with the way the communist-inclined, socialist leftists/"progressives" in this country have crafted their narrative that demonizes christianity.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Church membership in America is falling. I think that this started along with television, and televangelism, which I think that all thinking people recognize as nothing but a Sunday substitute for World Wide Wrestling that is broadcast on Saturdays. In the meantime, the Catholic Church has become so out of date, and out of touch with all but the superstitious and tradition steeped individuals. The less I say about the LDS and weird splitter sects, the better. Mainstream protestant churches can't seem to figure out how to get converts, unless they resort to rassal dassel.

I suspect that religion in America is dying. I say that without any moral judgment on the matter.

That might have some relationship with the way the communist-inclined, socialist leftists/"progressives" in this country have crafted their narrative that demonizes christianity.

I am not sure that I understand your point, but I do believe that the the humanistic population tend to think of religion as one giant dog and pony show, without seeing the deeper personal relationship with god, that is the true core of Christianity.

I am proud of myself. I, too, am a humanist atheist, Yet, I understand the difference between a personal commitment to god, and the the Christian Right. But, I admit that I can not reconcile how anyone can be both a true committed Christian, and a RW activist christian at the same time..

 

[yiostheoy]

To hear some people you'd think so...or you'd think SOME is...but that would be looking at it only one part of it.

I do think religion helps us to think of a higher purpose, to think outside of ourselves and our immediate needs, to think of others. And that is a good thing. I'm not big into "salvation" as a formal concept...and I am firm believer that we create our own heaven and hell through our actions on earth.

I'm listening to music, the true voice of the sacred. Cat Stevens...Yusuf Islam is one. What he says makes sense and echos all the world's great faiths:

Ten Promises To Peace

Ten Promises To Peace


What has happened to the Muslim Community since the Prophet Muhammad’s passing (peace be upon him) is anything but the message of unity, love and peace he delivered. Not entirely their fault because those who prosper by dividing mankind into collective groups, those who draw lines between people and families and then make deals with violent would-be-lords, presidents and dictators, must shoulder much of the blame also.


After entering Islam through the study of the Qur’an, what shocked me was how little people knew or wanted to know about the commonalities shared between Islam and other Faiths. The partial reason for this is the ‘Blame Game’; everybody accusing the ‘others’ for the terrible condition of the world: Afghanistan, Palestine, Bosnia, Iraq, all burning flames of hatred. Whereas the fundamental message of the Prophet, calling for understanding, prayer and charity under God, is totally lost in the gun smoke and fury of the explosive wars that continue to fog many people’s understanding of Islam. Following my conversion, I realised the real battle front was ignorance and mutual antagonism, was left unattended.


After many years, and millions of fatalities the world is still a very dangerous place, and continuously in conflict. So what can we do? Well, I think we can all promise to try and make it better by following the things we all say believe in.


Lessons from the Ten Commandments


Some people perceive believers in a Divine Code of life as unfashionable and unrealistic. But these people have left the safety of God’s palace of peace, and chosen to pitch their tents outside. That’s their choice, and choice is part of the license God has given every human being. However, when laws are broken and if people commit crimes and cross the lines, you can’t blame God for what happens next. Law and Order are primary requisites that God has provided humanity to maintain peace within the palace.


One of the most important objectives of all religion is teaching people how to live together. The lessons I learnt as a school child, the Ten Commandments, are not even referred to or looked at anymore. Yet these were the rules laid down by our Creator, for the benefit and betterment of all mankind. Why are they so easily overlooked?


When we hear that over four fifths of the world’s population believe or have a faith, why are we not profiting from things we already hold as valuable and right. In Islam, the ‘Ten’ are repeated in the Qur’an and other sacred Books in so many verses and chapters. This is a plus! What is missing is commitment.


People have put their nationality and customs above the commitment to abide by a Divine template of universal rights and responsibilities.


Even the Universal Declaration of Human Rights says: All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood. It goes on to describe in detail what those rights are.


So what happens? Why do some of us look down at others, and consider their lives less than equal with our own? When a person kills another from the same race and society, it’s called murder. When someone kills someone from another country it’s war. It’s a complicated subject and cannot be dealt with in this short talk, but we can realize the basis of the problem if we revisit God’s commands.​

Rest of the article at link.

And..for Christianity? What could be better expressed then in Connie Dover's Ubi Caritas.....my heart and soul



WHERE charity and love are, God is there.
Christ's love has gathered us into one.
Let us rejoice and be pleased in Him.
Let us fear, and let us love the living God.
And may we love each other with a sincere heart.

WHERE charity and love are, God is there.
As we are gathered into one body,
Beware, lest we be divided in mind.
Let evil impulses stop, let controversy cease,
And may Christ our God be in our midst.

WHERE charity and love are, God is there.
And may we with the saints also,
See Thy face in glory, O Christ our God:
The joy that is immense and good,
Unto the ages through infinite ages. Amen.

Opiate of the masses.

Marx was my hero.