Is religion just an evolutionary tool?

[Ravi]

Explaining Religion is an ambitious attempt to do this. The experiments it will sponsor are designed to look at the mental mechanisms needed to represent an omniscient deity, whether (and how) belief in such a “surveillance-camera” God might improve reproductive success to an individual's Darwinian advantage, and whether religion enhances a person's reputation—for instance, do people think that those who believe in God are more trustworthy than those who do not? The researchers will also seek to establish whether different religions foster different levels of co-operation, for what reasons, and whether such co-operation brings collective benefits, both to the religious community and to those outside it.

Where angels no longer fear to tread

 

[Shogun]

it's a tool alright...

so are it's practitioners.

 

[Truthmatters]

My theory is that it was a stress reliever for ancient man.

It was a way to explain all the things they could not explain and that in momments of strife something to look to feel less alone and a sense that even if you die there is more left.

In feeling that death was not the end people could perform in very stressfull conditions without falling appart. When people feel all is lost they are more likely to sit down an give up. Those who persevered even when all felt lost just might make it to the next spring. Stress is a proven human killer. Reducing the stress by believing that some greater being had control and loved you helped people survive.

Those brains wired to do this better were likely to have a small edge thus passing on their tendency to persevere to produce more offspring. I really think its kinda hardwired into many peoples brains.Then there are the ones Im decended from who did it without this hardwiring.

 

[Shogun]

my theory is that it has been a defense mechanism used to explain natural occurrences that the current social schema wasn't able to explain. From lightening to death religion constantly assimilates scientific comprehension and blames the remainder on the supernatural. We still do this. Modern dogma junkies are no better in their faith than dogma junkies of any earlier tradition. While greek mythology did liven up their theatre offerings it sure as hell didn't illuminate their comprehension of the physical world around them. And why would it? If a dogma junky is content thinking that seasons are caused by kidnapped gods then why rock the boat? such would be blasphemy. We see the exact same thing with faithheads today.

 

[Diuretic]

But it's interesting that humans appear to be the only animals who worship supernatural beings. I've never heard of other animals doing so. We seem to have the capability. The questions are why and how? I saw in the article that the hypotheses have changed on brain function, there is no God centre, it seems to me a function of those parts of the brain that deal with higher order thinking. And the evolutionary hypothesis is really interesting. That's a very good article by the way.

 

[Truthmatters]

Got a link to the article Di?

 

[Shogun]

humans are also the only specie to kill because of beliefs. I think that it's a byproduct of our evolutionary reflexive reaction to percieved threats filtered through our ability to think abstractly in reason and deduction. Who is to say that bees don't worship their queen? They do have a recently discovered method of communication in their movement, eh?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bee_learning_and_communication


And, im not sure i'd rule out a godspot in the brain. Charasmatic christians really are no different in their fanatic behaviour than anyone else responding to perceived celebrity. It's why TBN and the rest of the jim baker types don't concede themselves to work gods plan in anonymity rather than a rationalized luxury.

 

[Diuretic]

Got a link to the article Di?

Sorry TM I meant the one Ravir posted in the opening post. Very interesting.

 

[Diuretic]

humans are also the only specie to kill because of beliefs. I think that it's a byproduct of our evolutionary reflexive reaction to percieved threats filtered through our ability to think abstractly in reason and deduction. Who is to say that bees don't worship their queen? They do have a recently discovered method of communication in their movement, eh?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bee_learning_and_communication


And, im not sure i'd rule out a godspot in the brain. Charasmatic christians really are no different in their fanatic behaviour than anyone else responding to perceived celebrity. It's why TBN and the rest of the jim baker types don't concede themselves to work gods plan in anonymity rather than a rationalized luxury.

Good point about why we kill due to ideology, hadn't even thought of that point. Jeez we're dangerous buggers!

I don't know about bees worshipping anything but those communication patterns bear further examination, I think I remember hearing this on a science radio show here a few months ago.

The godspot thing, I was sort of reflecting on the way that brain function theory changes. The localised versus the generalised idea of function and then the return to localised. It's confusing! I mean I know about Broca's Area being concerned with speech but apparently other areas of the cortex are also involved in speech. Let's call it a multi-functioning organ.

 

[Truthmatters]

Sorry TM I meant the one Ravir posted in the opening post. Very interesting.

Oh my bad I read your response to fast.

 

[Diuretic]

Oh my bad I read your response to fast.

Understandable - I wrote it fast

 

[Shogun]

yea.. Im not going to pretend that I have the brain mapped out.. but, id bet my money, given the similar behaviour patterns, that fanaticism in religion can be understood by watching pre-pubescent teens rush the stage at a hannah montana concert.

the bees do bear consideration. As do ants, whales, dolphins, and cats and dogs. I mentioned bees because we are still discovering things about their ability to communicate, cannot deny their socialist nature, and really have no idea how their brain functions work in regards to their individual place in the larger society.


cats and dogs? whose to say that your cat or dog doesn't literally worship you as a god?

 

[Ravi]

But it's interesting that humans appear to be the only animals who worship supernatural beings. I've never heard of other animals doing so. We seem to have the capability. The questions are why and how?

I liked that the article didn't address the question of if a god exists but rather why we believed one does. Your comment reminded me of last week's Radio Lab on deception, and self-deception, which at the conclusion stated that people that deceive themselves tend to be happier and more successful. I wonder if there is a link here.

 

[Diuretic]

yea.. Im not going to pretend that I have the brain mapped out.. but, id bet my money, given the similar behaviour patterns, that fanaticism in religion can be understood by watching pre-pubescent teens rush the stage at a hannah montana concert.

the bees do bear consideration. As do ants, whales, dolphins, and cats and dogs. I mentioned bees because we are still discovering things about their ability to communicate, cannot deny their socialist nature, and really have no idea how their brain functions work in regards to their individual place in the larger society.


cats and dogs? whose to say that your cat or dog doesn't literally worship you as a god?

I think the dog looks up to me but the cat, you know that old saying, "dogs have masters, cats have staff"? That's my cat. If she could speak I have no doubt she'd bang on about how cats were worshipped in ancient Egypt, why don't I feed her more often, how come I yell at her when I see her stalking a bird.....

 

[Diuretic]

I liked that the article didn't address the question of if a god exists but rather why we believed one does. Your comment reminded me of last week's Radio Lab on deception, and self-deception, which at the conclusion stated that people that deceive themselves tend to be happier and more successful. I wonder if there is a link here.

Good points. During the occasional reverie I think that self-deception is our way of getting on with life. If self-deception gives ease of mind then as long as it doesn't make us socially dysfunctional it can't be a bad thing.

But the religious impulse in humans is capable of being abused and that gives us our current problems with Islamic militants and gave us the Crusades and the Spanish Inquisition and all the rest of it. It seems we're quite capable of exploiting it in our dealings with one another.

 

[Shogun]

oh I hear ya, man. Ive known some real cool cats but they never have been quite as eager to please as my dog.



I have a red eared slider water turtle in a 15 gal. aquarium who might think all kinds of supernatural things are happening when I get home from work every day, turn on his heat lamp, add water to the filter, and hand feeds him a large orange cichlid stick.

 

[Truthmatters]

Its good to be the God.

 

[Diuretic]

That's different! Never seen one of those. The little bloke probably prays to the Cichlid Stick God of Light...

 

[Shogun]

That's different! Never seen one of those. The little bloke probably prays to the Cichlid Stick God of Light...

Considering his conditioned response to my frnt door opening upon my arrival I wouldnt doubt it. He quickly prays in the northwest corner of his universe for another day of mana from heaven!


true story: When these little buggers were named they were given the name Slider because they would slide off of the log or rock they were basking in before the naturalist could get very close. If I were around back then and my job was to observe em they would probably be called "Red-eared quick little bastards that piss me off"

 

[Diuretic]

Fred Skinner would be proud of your work, perhaps you've invented Skinner Aquariums? On conditioned responses, getting back to the cat, after some reflection I realise it's me who's been trained by her