Is religion a sign of immaturity?

[Delta4Embassy]

No. But people who're various kinds of mentally ill do often assert 'everyone else is just like me.' I don't have imaginary constructs outside myself to cope with loneliness. If I feel lonely I turn on the tv, or sit on the porch to say hi to real people walking by. I don't sit in my bedroom and talk to myself.

So TV is your "god".

No. I don't worship my tv nor say if you don't watch "The Big Bang Theory" I'll come kill you and you'll go to hell.

 

[rightwinger]

That is an extremely limited point of view.

In a nutshell...that is all there is to religion

God will punish you if you are bad....Hell
God will reward you if you are good....Heaven

So you better be good for goodness sake. You better not pout, you better not cry. You better be good, I'm telling you why

No, it is not. That is simply your unsupported belief. You are, of course, free to believe whatever you like. But just because you believe it does not make you right. It just makes you a believer.

Religion is an unsupported belief

 

[dilloduck]

If you are good.....Santa will get you toys
If you are bad.......Santa will put coal in your stocking

It is a simplistic incentive to be good that children will understand. Same as religion

What is the secular method of encouraging morality ?

Are you kidding me? I see my sister, who is a christian by the way, NEVER bring up god when teaching her kids. Never once heard her say what would jesus do or you'll go to hell. And she is raising two great kids who know not to bully, be nice, polite, don't steal, don't lie.

You think you need to scare a kid with jesus to make him be good?

I can also tell you my nephews, when they do bad, don't worry about what jesus or god is thinking. They worry about if they'll get in trouble.

Now, they do go to church every week, so I do realize even they are being brainwashed too, but that's on a subconscious level.

Wow, typing this it dawned on me. Even though they go to church every week, let me tell you something. From an honest view of their level of christianity, I can tell you that they pretty much forget about jesus for 6 days until it is time to go back to church. And how much of church is the socialization for them vs. the actual god stuff? I would say god is a side thought for most christians that I know anyways.

And I'm greatful because honestly I hate Gismys type christians. They are the worse.

So yes god does contribute to making my nephews better people, but I say completely unnecessary. I don't believe in god and that doesn't mean now I want to murder rape and steal.

So maybe god is good for kids but once they grow up, stop lying to them. Explain like Santa its how we make people good. I don't approve of the method but at least the intention is there. BUT, I also think "they" use religion to control the masses. If "we" can believe in god we can buy pretty much any story right? So in the future if we are scientific atheists, it'll be a lot harder to lie to us like our government does now every day.

That didn't answer the question.

 

[rightwinger]

If you are moral there will be positive consequences
If you are immoral there will be negative consequences
Makes sense to me.

If you are good.....Santa will get you toys
If you are bad.......Santa will put coal in your stocking

It is a simplistic incentive to be good that children will understand. Same as religion

What is the secular method of encouraging morality ?

Golden Rule: Do unto others as you would have others do unto you

You do things because they are the right thing to do.......not because you fear a future punishment

Isn't doing something because it is right better than doing something in hope of some reward or to keep from being punished ?

 

[sealybobo]

What is the secular method of encouraging morality ?

Are you kidding me? I see my sister, who is a christian by the way, NEVER bring up god when teaching her kids. Never once heard her say what would jesus do or you'll go to hell. And she is raising two great kids who know not to bully, be nice, polite, don't steal, don't lie.

You think you need to scare a kid with jesus to make him be good?

I can also tell you my nephews, when they do bad, don't worry about what jesus or god is thinking. They worry about if they'll get in trouble.

Now, they do go to church every week, so I do realize even they are being brainwashed too, but that's on a subconscious level.

Wow, typing this it dawned on me. Even though they go to church every week, let me tell you something. From an honest view of their level of christianity, I can tell you that they pretty much forget about jesus for 6 days until it is time to go back to church. And how much of church is the socialization for them vs. the actual god stuff? I would say god is a side thought for most christians that I know anyways.

And I'm greatful because honestly I hate Gismys type christians. They are the worse.

So yes god does contribute to making my nephews better people, but I say completely unnecessary. I don't believe in god and that doesn't mean now I want to murder rape and steal.

So maybe god is good for kids but once they grow up, stop lying to them. Explain like Santa its how we make people good. I don't approve of the method but at least the intention is there. BUT, I also think "they" use religion to control the masses. If "we" can believe in god we can buy pretty much any story right? So in the future if we are scientific atheists, it'll be a lot harder to lie to us like our government does now every day.

That didn't answer the question.

One example:

Golden Rule - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This concept can be explained from the perspective of psychology, philosophy, sociology and religion.

 

[dilloduck]

Are you kidding me? I see my sister, who is a christian by the way, NEVER bring up god when teaching her kids. Never once heard her say what would jesus do or you'll go to hell. And she is raising two great kids who know not to bully, be nice, polite, don't steal, don't lie.

You think you need to scare a kid with jesus to make him be good?

I can also tell you my nephews, when they do bad, don't worry about what jesus or god is thinking. They worry about if they'll get in trouble.

Now, they do go to church every week, so I do realize even they are being brainwashed too, but that's on a subconscious level.

Wow, typing this it dawned on me. Even though they go to church every week, let me tell you something. From an honest view of their level of christianity, I can tell you that they pretty much forget about jesus for 6 days until it is time to go back to church. And how much of church is the socialization for them vs. the actual god stuff? I would say god is a side thought for most christians that I know anyways.

And I'm greatful because honestly I hate Gismys type christians. They are the worse.

So yes god does contribute to making my nephews better people, but I say completely unnecessary. I don't believe in god and that doesn't mean now I want to murder rape and steal.

So maybe god is good for kids but once they grow up, stop lying to them. Explain like Santa its how we make people good. I don't approve of the method but at least the intention is there. BUT, I also think "they" use religion to control the masses. If "we" can believe in god we can buy pretty much any story right? So in the future if we are scientific atheists, it'll be a lot harder to lie to us like our government does now every day.

That didn't answer the question.

One example:

Golden Rule - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This concept can be explained from the perspective of psychology, philosophy, sociology and religion.

In a secular society what happens to the person who doesn't follow the golden rule ?

 

[rightwinger]

That didn't answer the question.

One example:

Golden Rule - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This concept can be explained from the perspective of psychology, philosophy, sociology and religion.

In a secular society what happens to the person who doesn't follow the golden rule ?

For the most part, you are looked at as not a very nice person, someone I would not want as a friend, someone not to be trusted
In the extreme....they go to jail

 

[dilloduck]

One example:

Golden Rule - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This concept can be explained from the perspective of psychology, philosophy, sociology and religion.

In a secular society what happens to the person who doesn't follow the golden rule ?

For the most part, you are looked at as not a very nice person, someone I would not want as a friend, someone not to be trusted
In the extreme....they go to jail

right--punishment

 

[Dante]

Is religion a sign of immaturity?

As a species, yes. Even more immature is you quoting and thinking too heavily about things entertainers like Bill say on stage or on screen or in print.

 

[Dante]

Thinking of Bill Maher's repeated use of 'imaginary friend' referring to God I wonder if that's not entirely inaccurate. If a person is lonely and unloved God and religion probably fills the void rather nicely. If they did have someone to love and be loved by they're be investing that emotional energy with them, not something abstract and intangible like a unproven deity.

"My imaginary friend says..."

"My imaginary friend is gonna beat you up."

"My imaginary friend and I have fun every day."

...Things children often say of their imaginary friends. Curiously, not unlike what people say about their deities. So are people who as adults continue to cling to such imaginary figures in some way clinically retarded?

Uh no----you are clinically retarded if you believe that. Everyone has something out side of themselves they use for companionship.

Everyone has something out side of themselves they use for companionship?

and one observation: many people have something outside of themselves, something that exists in the physical world, that they use for companionship

 

[dilloduck]

Thinking of Bill Maher's repeated use of 'imaginary friend' referring to God I wonder if that's not entirely inaccurate. If a person is lonely and unloved God and religion probably fills the void rather nicely. If they did have someone to love and be loved by they're be investing that emotional energy with them, not something abstract and intangible like a unproven deity.

"My imaginary friend says..."

"My imaginary friend is gonna beat you up."

"My imaginary friend and I have fun every day."

...Things children often say of their imaginary friends. Curiously, not unlike what people say about their deities. So are people who as adults continue to cling to such imaginary figures in some way clinically retarded?

Uh no----you are clinically retarded if you believe that. Everyone has something out side of themselves they use for companionship.

Everyone has something out side of themselves they use for companionship?

and one observation: many people have something outside of themselves, something that exists in the physical world, that they use for companionship

very true--and many meditate, pray, do yoga or use other techniques.

 

[Dante]

Uh no----you are clinically retarded if you believe that. Everyone has something out side of themselves they use for companionship.

Everyone has something out side of themselves they use for companionship?

and one observation: many people have something outside of themselves, something that exists in the physical world, that they use for companionship

very true--and many meditate, pray, do yoga or use other techniques.

praying is companionship?

you truly must be the original lonely human. Oh wait! You probably think praying to an imaginary 'person' makes it all real?


never mind

 

[sealybobo]

That didn't answer the question.

One example:

Golden Rule - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This concept can be explained from the perspective of psychology, philosophy, sociology and religion.

In a secular society what happens to the person who doesn't follow the golden rule ?

Goes to jail, pays a fine, goes on probation or is executed depending on the circumstances. Why?

 

[sealybobo]

Everyone has something out side of themselves they use for companionship?

and one observation: many people have something outside of themselves, something that exists in the physical world, that they use for companionship

very true--and many meditate, pray, do yoga or use other techniques.

praying is companionship?

you truly must be the original lonely human. Oh wait! You probably think praying to an imaginary 'person' makes it all real?


never mind

If I was a 10 year old buy dying of cancer I would ask god why. I would hope there would be more than just this. This is who religion is for. I told my dog she would be ok when the vet was injecting her with death. It was a lie worth telling. If I'm on my death bed, I don't think I will ask god why. For 43 plus years I was blessed. If there is some higher power that put us here cool. Otherwise I was just lucky. Luckier than a religious woman in afganistan anyways.

But I don't believe in heaven and hell. I'd like to think I live on happily ever after and bad people burn, but that's just human thinking.

If there is a god, its like he shit us out his butt and we are a parasite in the shit he took. Does god care about the parasite or maggot? Only that it doesn't somehow come back to go in his mouth. That's why we can't see him. He's running from us. What do you do when you shit in a pool? You leave!

 

[PratchettFan]

In a nutshell...that is all there is to religion

God will punish you if you are bad....Hell
God will reward you if you are good....Heaven

So you better be good for goodness sake. You better not pout, you better not cry. You better be good, I'm telling you why

No, it is not. That is simply your unsupported belief. You are, of course, free to believe whatever you like. But just because you believe it does not make you right. It just makes you a believer.

Religion is an unsupported belief

True. That does not make your position any less an unsupported belief. In point of fact, a very little research on your part would show that your belief is not just unsupported, it is demonstrably false.

 

[PratchettFan]

Is religion a sign of immaturity?

As a species, yes. Even more immature is you quoting and thinking too heavily about things entertainers like Bill say on stage or on screen or in print.

Really? What other species are you comparing us to come to that conclusion?

 

[rightwinger]

No, it is not. That is simply your unsupported belief. You are, of course, free to believe whatever you like. But just because you believe it does not make you right. It just makes you a believer.

Religion is an unsupported belief

True. That does not make your position any less an unsupported belief. In point of fact, a very little research on your part would show that your belief is not just unsupported, it is demonstrably false.

Not when you look at what religion is and where it came from

The Old Testament is decidedly simplistic and immature. Simple concepts to appeal to simple people. Fire, brimstone, wrath of God. Reward the good, punish the bad...same thing you tell children

The New Testament provides more complex concepts. Sacrifice for the good of all, love not fear, caring for your fellow man. It looks at man as part of a societal structure. Written thousands of years later it appeals to people who are more educated and understand more than good and evil

 

[PratchettFan]

Religion is an unsupported belief

True. That does not make your position any less an unsupported belief. In point of fact, a very little research on your part would show that your belief is not just unsupported, it is demonstrably false.

Not when you look at what religion is and where it came from

The Old Testament is decidedly simplistic and immature. Simple concepts to appeal to simple people. Fire, brimstone, wrath of God. Reward the good, punish the bad...same thing you tell children

The New Testament provides more complex concepts. Sacrifice for the good of all, love not fear, caring for your fellow man. It looks at man as part of a societal structure. Written thousands of years later it appeals to people who are more educated and understand more than good and evil

It is times like these where I wonder if I am talking to an atheist or just a Christian who is ticked off at God. Believe it or not, Christianity is not the only religion in the world. Your particular view of God - though extremely specific for someone who says they do not believe in God - is not the only view. You begin with the premise that Christianity is, in fact, the only true religion. You are wrong. I do not accept your dogma.

 

[emilynghiem]

Hi [MENTION=46449]Delta4Embassy[/MENTION] Thanks for asking straightforward honest questions.

If you are going to say religions show immaturity for dependence on something,
please be fair and also say that about politics and govt, where this creates dependence on parties and people in office to do things for us.

The difference is that before people can be politically/legally independent
and able to govern on their own, they need to be spiritually mature and not dependent on cults or cliques to fight for power. So the spiritual independence comes first
before political independence. Without spiritual maturity, both religion and politics can be equally abused to divide in opposing groups and depend on bullying the other to dominate.

As for what you asked on the other thread about what MAKES a religion make people unhappy,
it's not the worship of a God but whether people are "universally inclusive" and treat people equally with forgiveness,
or they get "mutually exclusive" divisive and reject people they judge with retribution and unforgiveness.

So that factor of dividing and judging, projecting unforgiven issues onto others to kill relationships
is what makes people miserable. Whether it's religion or politics used as the weapon to fight this way.

It isn't God itself, but HOW we believe about God, if we are inclusive or not, if we divide judge reject and blame others.
Even Atheists can do that without any religion at all, and this makes people unhappy with each other!

Thinking of Bill Maher's repeated use of 'imaginary friend' referring to God I wonder if that's not entirely inaccurate. If a person is lonely and unloved God and religion probably fills the void rather nicely. If they did have someone to love and be loved by they're be investing that emotional energy with them, not something abstract and intangible like a unproven deity.

"My imaginary friend says..."

"My imaginary friend is gonna beat you up."

"My imaginary friend and I have fun every day."

...Things children often say of their imaginary friends. Curiously, not unlike what people say about their deities. So are people who as adults continue to cling to such imaginary figures in some way clinically retarded?

In school, part of a psych course was a counselling session. And I remember challenging the shrink on why aren't people who profess religious beliefs considered mentally ill? They talk to beings that aren't present, have aural and/or visual hallucinations, are delusional in their grasp of reality, etc. but they're NOT mentally ill. Whereas often people who say Jesus speaks to them are called schitzophrenic. Yet when Presidents say that same thing no one dusts off the Articles of Impeachment.

Have religious beliefs become true with time and popularity? A recognized lie, yet because of how many and how long we allow such assertions to be lies instead of mental illnesses.

 

[Dante]

[MENTION=37752]PratchettFan[/MENTION]

Is religion a sign of immaturity?

As a species, yes. Even more immature is you quoting and thinking too heavily about things entertainers like Bill say on stage or on screen or in print.

Really? What other species are you comparing us to come to that conclusion?

Comparing? Recognizing the immaturity of our species need not demand having another species to compare ourselves too.

Witness, mankind was very immature hundreds/thousands of years ago when they imagined thunder and lightning and earthquakes were the results of angry gods.

See?

Now you need to develop a critical thinking skill set. Start out with: reading and comprehension 101