harmonica
Diamond Member
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sorry--should say 1987
Is NATO a Viable Military Organization?
- Thread starter DGS49
- Start date
harmonica
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peace????????!!!!!!!!!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
do you know how many wars/conflicts/etc there have been??????!!!!
DGS49
Diamond Member
- Thread starter
- #23
The essence of NATO is the pledge to defend, "one for all, and all for one." But if Russia does something that is belligerent, they all back off and ask us to take the lead.
We have no dog in their fight. We should support but let Germany lead.
Which they will never do. They are totally reliant on Russian natural gas.
We have no dog in their fight. We should support but let Germany lead.
Which they will never do. They are totally reliant on Russian natural gas.
harmonica
Diamond Member
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..yes, it's more complicated than the armchair generals think ...it's not a board game
That's certainly Russia's stance on NATO....NATO and workers Unions had their time and place several decades ago.
But today both are just anachronisms of a bygone era that no longer exists, and have devolved into bloated bureaucracies who's sole purpose is to keep the money flowing into the pockets of those in charge. ...
Desperado
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Only because of the involvement of the United States. If the US is not in play NATO is nothing
It seems to me that this would be a good time for an American President (a real President) to approach our NATO "allies" and tell them that THEY have a problem here, and we are willing to HELP.
Remember that 2%of GDP that they promised to spend on mutual defense? There is no time like the present.
Of course that would require a President with balls.
NATO is the most powerful military force in history.
Russia is nowhere close
rightwinger
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Only because of the involvement of the United States. If the US is not in play NATO is nothing
It seems to me that this would be a good time for an American President (a real President) to approach our NATO "allies" and tell them that THEY have a problem here, and we are willing to HELP.
Remember that 2%of GDP that they promised to spend on mutual defense? There is no time like the present.
Of course that would require a President with balls.
NATO is the most powerful military force in history.
Russia is nowhere close
France, UK, Germany, Italy have modern militaries with well trained soldiers and pilots.
They have been preparing for decades
rightwinger
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To Putin’s delight, Trump weakened NATO and indicated he may be unwilling to support our NATO allies
Desperado
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Well trained because the US trained themOnly because of the involvement of the United States. If the US is not in play NATO is nothing
It seems to me that this would be a good time for an American President (a real President) to approach our NATO "allies" and tell them that THEY have a problem here, and we are willing to HELP.
Remember that 2%of GDP that they promised to spend on mutual defense? There is no time like the present.
Of course that would require a President with balls.
NATO is the most powerful military force in history.
Russia is nowhere close
France, UK, Germany, Italy have modern militaries with well trained soldiers and pilots.
They have been preparing for decades
rightwinger
Award Winning USMB Paid Messageboard Poster
- Aug 4, 2009
- 299,266
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Well trained because the US trained themOnly because of the involvement of the United States. If the US is not in play NATO is nothing
It seems to me that this would be a good time for an American President (a real President) to approach our NATO "allies" and tell them that THEY have a problem here, and we are willing to HELP.
Remember that 2%of GDP that they promised to spend on mutual defense? There is no time like the present.
Of course that would require a President with balls.
NATO is the most powerful military force in history.
Russia is nowhere close
France, UK, Germany, Italy have modern militaries with well trained soldiers and pilots.
They have been preparing for decades
Of course we didn’t.
But NATO has joint exercises to maintain readiness.
Russia has nothing to compare
Litwin
Diamond Member
all Moscow paid trolls (in all our free world forms) come out of the closet with similar threads
It seems to me that this would be a good time for an American President (a real President) to approach our NATO "allies" and tell them that THEY have a problem here, and we are willing to HELP.
Remember that 2%of GDP that they promised to spend on mutual defense? There is no time like the present.
Of course that would require a President with balls.
AZrailwhale
Diamond Member
Are you kidding? NATO readiness is at an all time low. Germany only has 244 tanks, many of which are inoperable with no spares to fix them, it has 212 fighters, bombers and attack aircraft, again poorly maintained. It has a total of 215,000 military personnel counting every swinging Richard, cooks, clerks doctors, everyone. France has 406 tanks, 269 fighters, bombers and attack aircraft and 300,000 military personnel. The UK has 209 tanks, 134 fighters, bombers and attack aircraft and 280,000 military personnel. Those the Heavy hitters of NATO. NATO has drawn down from being the well equipped and well trained force of the Cold War. The NATO countries can’t defend themselves, let alone the Ukraine. Russia has serious problems, but it’s far stronger than the European NATO members and is right on the Ukraine’s border. NATO has to move troops and vehicles hundreds of miles to get to the Ukraine.Only because of the involvement of the United States. If the US is not in play NATO is nothing
It seems to me that this would be a good time for an American President (a real President) to approach our NATO "allies" and tell them that THEY have a problem here, and we are willing to HELP.
Remember that 2%of GDP that they promised to spend on mutual defense? There is no time like the present.
Of course that would require a President with balls.
NATO is the most powerful military force in history.
Russia is nowhere close
France, UK, Germany, Italy have modern militaries with well trained soldiers and pilots.
They have been preparing for decades
rightwinger
Award Winning USMB Paid Messageboard Poster
- Aug 4, 2009
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Are you kidding? NATO readiness is at an all time low. Germany only has 244 tanks, many of which are inoperable with no spares to fix them, it has 212 fighters, bombers and attack aircraft, again poorly maintained. It has a total of 215,000 military personnel counting every swinging Richard, cooks, clerks doctors, everyone. France has 406 tanks, 269 fighters, bombers and attack aircraft and 300,000 military personnel. The UK has 209 tanks, 134 fighters, bombers and attack aircraft and 280,000 military personnel. Those the Heavy hitters of NATO. NATO has drawn down from being the well equipped and well trained force of the Cold War. The NATO countries can’t defend themselves, let alone the Ukraine. Russia has serious problems, but it’s far stronger than the European NATO members and is right on the Ukraine’s border. NATO has to move troops and vehicles hundreds of miles to get to the Ukraine.Only because of the involvement of the United States. If the US is not in play NATO is nothing
It seems to me that this would be a good time for an American President (a real President) to approach our NATO "allies" and tell them that THEY have a problem here, and we are willing to HELP.
Remember that 2%of GDP that they promised to spend on mutual defense? There is no time like the present.
Of course that would require a President with balls.
NATO is the most powerful military force in history.
Russia is nowhere close
France, UK, Germany, Italy have modern militaries with well trained soldiers and pilots.
They have been preparing for decades
And Russia?
No, Russia is not stronger than the European NATO members.
Their military is a shell
NoBueno
VIP Member
The US supplies something like 80% of NATO's heavy airlift capability.
AZrailwhale
Diamond Member
I agree Russia isn't a lot better, but it's a lot closer and quantity has a quality al of it's own as Comrade Stalin once remarked. Russia has a lot of obsolete military equipment designed to be operated by dumb draftees.Are you kidding? NATO readiness is at an all time low. Germany only has 244 tanks, many of which are inoperable with no spares to fix them, it has 212 fighters, bombers and attack aircraft, again poorly maintained. It has a total of 215,000 military personnel counting every swinging Richard, cooks, clerks doctors, everyone. France has 406 tanks, 269 fighters, bombers and attack aircraft and 300,000 military personnel. The UK has 209 tanks, 134 fighters, bombers and attack aircraft and 280,000 military personnel. Those the Heavy hitters of NATO. NATO has drawn down from being the well equipped and well trained force of the Cold War. The NATO countries can’t defend themselves, let alone the Ukraine. Russia has serious problems, but it’s far stronger than the European NATO members and is right on the Ukraine’s border. NATO has to move troops and vehicles hundreds of miles to get to the Ukraine.Only because of the involvement of the United States. If the US is not in play NATO is nothing
It seems to me that this would be a good time for an American President (a real President) to approach our NATO "allies" and tell them that THEY have a problem here, and we are willing to HELP.
Remember that 2%of GDP that they promised to spend on mutual defense? There is no time like the present.
Of course that would require a President with balls.
NATO is the most powerful military force in history.
Russia is nowhere close
France, UK, Germany, Italy have modern militaries with well trained soldiers and pilots.
They have been preparing for decades
And Russia?
No, Russia is not stronger than the European NATO members.
Their military is a shell
Silver Cat
Gold Member
According the Russian Military doctrine, "Regional wars" are nuclear wars. They have thousands of tactical nukes to fight Europeans and enough of strategical nukes for "in-war detterence" of the USA. Do you believe, that Biden is going to start all-out war (and to kill tens of millions of American citizens) to protect Ukraine, or even the whole Europe? He don't care about Europe, China is his only passion.Are you kidding? NATO readiness is at an all time low. Germany only has 244 tanks, many of which are inoperable with no spares to fix them, it has 212 fighters, bombers and attack aircraft, again poorly maintained. It has a total of 215,000 military personnel counting every swinging Richard, cooks, clerks doctors, everyone. France has 406 tanks, 269 fighters, bombers and attack aircraft and 300,000 military personnel. The UK has 209 tanks, 134 fighters, bombers and attack aircraft and 280,000 military personnel. Those the Heavy hitters of NATO. NATO has drawn down from being the well equipped and well trained force of the Cold War. The NATO countries can’t defend themselves, let alone the Ukraine. Russia has serious problems, but it’s far stronger than the European NATO members and is right on the Ukraine’s border. NATO has to move troops and vehicles hundreds of miles to get to the Ukraine.Only because of the involvement of the United States. If the US is not in play NATO is nothing
It seems to me that this would be a good time for an American President (a real President) to approach our NATO "allies" and tell them that THEY have a problem here, and we are willing to HELP.
Remember that 2%of GDP that they promised to spend on mutual defense? There is no time like the present.
Of course that would require a President with balls.
NATO is the most powerful military force in history.
Russia is nowhere close
France, UK, Germany, Italy have modern militaries with well trained soldiers and pilots.
They have been preparing for decades
And Russia?
No, Russia is not stronger than the European NATO members.
Their military is a shell
rightwinger
Award Winning USMB Paid Messageboard Poster
- Aug 4, 2009
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Russia faces mutually assured destruction, just like they always have. Is Putin willing to take the risk just to annex Ukraine?According the Russian Military doctrine, "Regional wars" are nuclear wars. They have thousands of tactical nukes to fight Europeans and enough of strategical nukes for "in-war detterence" of the USA. Do you believe, that Biden is going to start all-out war (and to kill tens of millions of American citizens) to protect Ukraine, or even the whole Europe? He don't care about Europe, China is his only passion.Are you kidding? NATO readiness is at an all time low. Germany only has 244 tanks, many of which are inoperable with no spares to fix them, it has 212 fighters, bombers and attack aircraft, again poorly maintained. It has a total of 215,000 military personnel counting every swinging Richard, cooks, clerks doctors, everyone. France has 406 tanks, 269 fighters, bombers and attack aircraft and 300,000 military personnel. The UK has 209 tanks, 134 fighters, bombers and attack aircraft and 280,000 military personnel. Those the Heavy hitters of NATO. NATO has drawn down from being the well equipped and well trained force of the Cold War. The NATO countries can’t defend themselves, let alone the Ukraine. Russia has serious problems, but it’s far stronger than the European NATO members and is right on the Ukraine’s border. NATO has to move troops and vehicles hundreds of miles to get to the Ukraine.Only because of the involvement of the United States. If the US is not in play NATO is nothing
It seems to me that this would be a good time for an American President (a real President) to approach our NATO "allies" and tell them that THEY have a problem here, and we are willing to HELP.
Remember that 2%of GDP that they promised to spend on mutual defense? There is no time like the present.
Of course that would require a President with balls.
NATO is the most powerful military force in history.
Russia is nowhere close
France, UK, Germany, Italy have modern militaries with well trained soldiers and pilots.
They have been preparing for decades
And Russia?
No, Russia is not stronger than the European NATO members.
Their military is a shell
Since joining NATO, the US has always committed to join in the defense of Europe. That has not changed
Silver Cat
Gold Member
"Mutually assured destruction" is a myth, you know. Good combination of EW, sudden counterforce attack, ABD and erzatz-ABD, evacuation of cities, civil defense and post-attack blackmail can decrease losses to pretty acceptable. They are going to lose two, may be three million of citizens, but they will get twenty or thirty millions of new citizens in Ukraine. What is even more important, they definitely won't stop in Ukraine. Possible loses are great, but the potential prize is literally enormous... May be, even the world domination.Russia faces mutually assured destruction, just like they always have. Is Putin willing to take the risk just to annex Ukraine?According the Russian Military doctrine, "Regional wars" are nuclear wars. They have thousands of tactical nukes to fight Europeans and enough of strategical nukes for "in-war detterence" of the USA. Do you believe, that Biden is going to start all-out war (and to kill tens of millions of American citizens) to protect Ukraine, or even the whole Europe? He don't care about Europe, China is his only passion.Are you kidding? NATO readiness is at an all time low. Germany only has 244 tanks, many of which are inoperable with no spares to fix them, it has 212 fighters, bombers and attack aircraft, again poorly maintained. It has a total of 215,000 military personnel counting every swinging Richard, cooks, clerks doctors, everyone. France has 406 tanks, 269 fighters, bombers and attack aircraft and 300,000 military personnel. The UK has 209 tanks, 134 fighters, bombers and attack aircraft and 280,000 military personnel. Those the Heavy hitters of NATO. NATO has drawn down from being the well equipped and well trained force of the Cold War. The NATO countries can’t defend themselves, let alone the Ukraine. Russia has serious problems, but it’s far stronger than the European NATO members and is right on the Ukraine’s border. NATO has to move troops and vehicles hundreds of miles to get to the Ukraine.Only because of the involvement of the United States. If the US is not in play NATO is nothing
It seems to me that this would be a good time for an American President (a real President) to approach our NATO "allies" and tell them that THEY have a problem here, and we are willing to HELP.
Remember that 2%of GDP that they promised to spend on mutual defense? There is no time like the present.
Of course that would require a President with balls.
NATO is the most powerful military force in history.
Russia is nowhere close
France, UK, Germany, Italy have modern militaries with well trained soldiers and pilots.
They have been preparing for decades
And Russia?
No, Russia is not stronger than the European NATO members.
Their military is a shell
Really? If Americans are ready to die to protect Europeans, why don't they sell them COVID-vaccines? "F#$k the EU" as Victoria Nuland said.
Last edited:
rightwinger
Award Winning USMB Paid Messageboard Poster
- Aug 4, 2009
- 299,266
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"Mutually assured destruction" is a myth, you know. Good combination of EW, sudden counterforce attack, ABD and erzatz-ABD, evacuation of cities, civil defense and post-attack blackmail can decrease losses to pretty acceptable. They are going to lose two, may be three million of citizens, but they will get twenty or thirty millions of new citizens in Ukraine. What is even more important, they definitely won't stop in Ukraine. Possible loses are great, but the potential prize is literally enormous... May be, even the world domination.Russia faces mutually assured destruction, just like they always have. Is Putin willing to take the risk just to annex Ukraine?According the Russian Military doctrine, "Regional wars" are nuclear wars. They have thousands of tactical nukes to fight Europeans and enough of strategical nukes for "in-war detterence" of the USA. Do you believe, that Biden is going to start all-out war (and to kill tens of millions of American citizens) to protect Ukraine, or even the whole Europe? He don't care about Europe, China is his only passion.Are you kidding? NATO readiness is at an all time low. Germany only has 244 tanks, many of which are inoperable with no spares to fix them, it has 212 fighters, bombers and attack aircraft, again poorly maintained. It has a total of 215,000 military personnel counting every swinging Richard, cooks, clerks doctors, everyone. France has 406 tanks, 269 fighters, bombers and attack aircraft and 300,000 military personnel. The UK has 209 tanks, 134 fighters, bombers and attack aircraft and 280,000 military personnel. Those the Heavy hitters of NATO. NATO has drawn down from being the well equipped and well trained force of the Cold War. The NATO countries can’t defend themselves, let alone the Ukraine. Russia has serious problems, but it’s far stronger than the European NATO members and is right on the Ukraine’s border. NATO has to move troops and vehicles hundreds of miles to get to the Ukraine.Only because of the involvement of the United States. If the US is not in play NATO is nothing
It seems to me that this would be a good time for an American President (a real President) to approach our NATO "allies" and tell them that THEY have a problem here, and we are willing to HELP.
Remember that 2%of GDP that they promised to spend on mutual defense? There is no time like the present.
Of course that would require a President with balls.
NATO is the most powerful military force in history.
Russia is nowhere close
France, UK, Germany, Italy have modern militaries with well trained soldiers and pilots.
They have been preparing for decades
And Russia?
No, Russia is not stronger than the European NATO members.
Their military is a shell
Really? If Americans are ready to die to protect Europeans, why don't they sell them COVID-vaccines? "F#$k the EU" as Victoria Nuland said.
We don’t even have to do that. A cyber attack will have the same result. Bring down the power grid, the internet, water systems.....
Then deny you know anything about it.
Then there are biological attacks. We saw what can happen there
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