CDZ Is Medical Care a Human/Social Right?

[LibertyKid]

Make it available to every man and woman that wants to take it. That's not the same thing as free.

Understood. But at the cost, very few could afford it. So is life and the quality of that life somewhat potentially dependent on one's financial ability?

 

[LibertyKid]

I too am a Conservative with Libertarian leanings.

I have a different view point.

My view point is simple; I'll pay my bills and you pay yours.

I should not be responsible to pay your health care bills. That is your responsibility.

Health care is just like any other commodity. If you want it then go out and make money to pay for it.

Sure. Agreed to an extent.
Most bills that people incur are self-generated. I finance a car, I have a monthly payment. I have a credit card, I use that card, I'll have a bill. I mortgage a home, I'm going to have a monthly payment. I don't choose cancer. I didn't choose to get hit buy the drunk driver. I didn't choose MS, or Parknson's. A bit of a difference, right?

Perhaps part of the system could separate certain medical liabilities. Have unprotected sex, contract herpes, the clap. That's your responsibility. Are you a smoker? But then that also begs the question as to who gets to decide what and who is liable.

 

[petro]

My point is are we making healthcare to political and too divisive. There has to be a middle ground solution. The wealthiest country in this world, with the greatest resources, there should be a way instead of politicizing healthcare.

I want to discuss how can we make it work instead of shooting it down with the same old scare tactics and memes. Of course healthcare is not "Free", but we don't we as a country have the means to make it work?

With the debt load we carry and rising literally by the second.
America hasn't been a rich country for years.


Can only pretend rich to be on credit for so long until the house of credit cards crumbles.

 

[LibertyKid]

With the debt load we carry and rising literally by the second.
America hasn't been a rich country for years.


Can only pretend rich to be on credit for so long until the house of credit cards crumbles.

Not talking personal wealth here.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Understood. But at the cost, very few could afford it. So is life and the quality of that life somewhat potentially dependent on one's financial ability?

There is nothing potential about it.

 

[LibertyKid]

There is nothing potential about it.

So nothing that could ever be developed that could improve one's health and even cure them from terrible diseases could ever be seen as a human right?

 

[Oddball]

First a little background on myself. Raised conservative, but feel that Libertarian really is how I identify currently. With that said, yes, I'm for the free market, capitalism, small government, personal freedoms, liberty, as little taxes as possible, etc. But I also realize that there will always be a need for social programs, so that's where I tend to disagree with the Libertarian viewpoint.

The Declaration of Independence provides us with Life, Liberty and Pursuit of happiness as unalienable rights.
If Life is a right within our society, shouldn't those technologies and medicines that provide and extend life be offered with no cost? Are we as a society looking at medical care, from all political sides, through the wrong lens. If we agree that life is a right, those medicines and technologies that can enhance, cure and extend, should be a right provided to the citizens rather than being a commodity to exchange.

As much money as we spend and give away, I really feel that this country can create a healthcare system, private/public/hybrid, that could be free to all.

Do you have the unalienable right to force your neighbor, at gunpoint if necessary, to provide and pay for a service or product for you?

There's you answer,

 

[EvilCat Breath]

So nothing that could ever be developed that could improve one's health and even cure them from terrible diseases could ever be seen as a human right?
[/QUOTED]

It shouldn't. You simply do not have a human right to the labor or property of others. Including cures for terrible diseases.

 

[LibertyKid]

Do you have the unalienable right to force your neighbor, at gunpoint if necessary, to provide and pay for a service or product for you?

There's you answer,

Of course not. But, through mutual social understanding, couldn't we as a society change our perspective on medical care and understand that we can all help each other through our taxes. It really isn't much different than employer's group rated insurance policy.

As I said in my OP, I'm in the middle on a lot of social issues. I don't like big government, I don't like over taxation. But I also understand that there is a need for some taxation. When we look at the wealth of our country isn't there a better way to provide medical care than our current system.

To take a very hard line that medical treatment is a product and service to be provided at a huge profit and the best of the treatment to those who can only afford it has moral implications IMO. And maybe my thoughts are wishful unicorn unattainable thinking. I do think that we the people, if we could set aside biases, political and personal, had access to actual budgets, revenues, costs, across the board, a better solution could be attained.

 

[Oddball]

Of course not. But, through mutual social understanding, couldn't we as a society change our perspective on medical care and understand that we can all help each other through our taxes. It really isn't much different than employer's group rated insurance policy.

As I said in my OP, I'm in the middle on a lot of social issues. I don't like big government, I don't like over taxation. But I also understand that there is a need for some taxation. When we look at the wealth of our country isn't there a better way to provide medical care than our current system.

To take a very hard line that medical treatment is a product and service to be provided at a huge profit and the best of the treatment to those who can only afford it has moral implications IMO. And maybe my thoughts are wishful unicorn unattainable thinking. I do think that we the people, if we could set aside biases, political and personal, had access to actual budgets, revenues, costs, across the board, a better solution could be attained.

It really isn't much different than employer's group rated insurance policy.

Which employer's group rated insurance policy operates under threat of force and confiscation of your earnings without your consent?

 

[Bezukhov]

If the gubbermint can take my money and give it to someone else to make them healthy, should the gubbermint take one of my kidneys and give it to someone else to make them healthy?

 

[Flash]

Sure. Agreed to an extent.
Most bills that people incur are self-generated. I finance a car, I have a monthly payment. I have a credit card, I use that card, I'll have a bill. I mortgage a home, I'm going to have a monthly payment. I don't choose cancer. I didn't choose to get hit buy the drunk driver. I didn't choose MS, or Parknson's. A bit of a difference, right?

Perhaps part of the system could separate certain medical liabilities. Have unprotected sex, contract herpes, the clap. That's your responsibility. Are you a smoker? But then that also begs the question as to who gets to decide what and who is liable.

So you think somebody else should have to work to provide your health care?

What about your personal responsibility?

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

Absolutely understood. All professional medical providers still get paid and paid well for their professional and educational experience. Of course the healthcare is not "Free" as someone has to pay for it. But this country is wealthy, we have the financial means to do great things. If we honestly looked at the money that comes in and then goes out to other countries who provide nothing for us. When we look at inflated costs, isn't there a better way to provide medical needs to everyone.

Yeah, stop the illegal aliens who shouldnt be here from getting free medical just because they walk into an emergency room. It used to be doctors would trade their services for someone who traded a chicken for, but Ted Kennedy put forth a bill that no person can be denied medical when they cant pay for it. So guess who picks up the bill, people who actually pay for it.

DC General went bankrupt because the non payees exceeded the income of the payers, and that is how you lose Hospitals. Stop the illegals and deny them all services in the US, they will go home....

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

If the gubbermint can take my money and give it to someone else to make them healthy, should the gubbermint take one of my kidneys and give it to someone else to make them healthy?

 

[petro]

Not talking personal wealth here.

I believe the metaphor escaped you.

Seriously, how many of those Fed notes you think they can print before it all collapses?

 

[sartre play]

In a word… YES.

Life is not fair. Never has been and never should be. Deal with it folks.

NO life is not fair, could we not at least attempt a little balance?

 

[Staidhup]

Absolutely nothing is free! Consider the cost, what will the government extract for providing this something for free? Try this one on for size, the government prints money (modern monetary theory) hands it out to the people for no other reason then it’s “free”, yet the purchasing power of that Monopoly money diminishes along with the recipients standard of living, so are handouts free?

 

[citygator]

Try Suing your local police because they failed to protect your person or property.

Try suing them because they didn’t arrest someone.

 

[Anathema]

NO life is not fair, could we not at least attempt a little balance?

Why would we do that? Life is not intended to be fair. If it were fair, much of the point of life (living properly without reward) would be lost.

 

[skews13]

First a little background on myself. Raised conservative, but feel that Libertarian really is how I identify currently. With that said, yes, I'm for the free market, capitalism, small government, personal freedoms, liberty, as little taxes as possible, etc. But I also realize that there will always be a need for social programs, so that's where I tend to disagree with the Libertarian viewpoint.

The Declaration of Independence provides us with Life, Liberty and Pursuit of happiness as unalienable rights.
If Life is a right within our society, shouldn't those technologies and medicines that provide and extend life be offered with no cost? Are we as a society looking at medical care, from all political sides, through the wrong lens. If we agree that life is a right, those medicines and technologies that can enhance, cure and extend, should be a right provided to the citizens rather than being a commodity to exchange.

As much money as we spend and give away, I really feel that this country can create a healthcare system, private/public/hybrid, that could be free to all.

Yes. It is. That’s what the concepts of life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness entails.

And not only that, but…

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America

to deny an American citizen healthcare based upon the ability to pay, goes against the very notions of domestic tranquility, general welfare, and more importantly, the very concept of forming a more perfect union.