Is Life Inevitable?

[jwoodie]

As we discuss the probability of life on other planets, there seems to be a presupposition that life will automatically appear under the right environmental conditions. While scientists have created certain chemical compositions which are considered "building blocks" to life, the actual creation of life in a test tube seems as wistful an enterprise as alchemy.

Not to replace scientific theory with religious dogma, but I wonder if this presupposition is well founded. Is it possible that life on Earth is an anomaly that has not been repeated in the universe? Is it really true that (cellular) life will automatically appear wherever liquid water and carbon-based molecules are present?

Isn't it possible that we might be alone?

 

[dblack]

As we discuss the probability of life on other planets, there seems to be a presupposition that life will automatically appear under the right environmental conditions. While scientists have created certain chemical compositions which are considered "building blocks" to life, the actual creation of life in a test tube seems as wistful an enterprise as alchemy.

Not to replace scientific theory with religious dogma, but I wonder if this presupposition is well founded. Is it possible that life on Earth is an anomaly that has not been repeated in the universe? Is it really true that (cellular) life will automatically appear wherever liquid water and carbon-based molecules are present?

Isn't it possible that we might be alone?

I don't think the presumption is that it's inevitable, or that life will appear wherever the building-blocks are present. It's more that there appear to be so many planets out there with the right conditions, that it's bound to have happened somewhere.

 

[progressive hunter]

As we discuss the probability of life on other planets, there seems to be a presupposition that life will automatically appear under the right environmental conditions. While scientists have created certain chemical compositions which are considered "building blocks" to life, the actual creation of life in a test tube seems as wistful an enterprise as alchemy.

Not to replace scientific theory with religious dogma, but I wonder if this presupposition is well founded. Is it possible that life on Earth is an anomaly that has not been repeated in the universe? Is it really true that (cellular) life will automatically appear wherever liquid water and carbon-based molecules are present?

Isn't it possible that we might be alone?

at present anything that evolution claims is religious dogma since no proof has ever been seen let alone reproduced,,,

and also at this point there is no proof we are not alone in the universe,,

it would also be arrogant of me to claim we are alone,,,

 

[toobfreak]

Isn't it possible that we might be alone?

Not a chance. You don't seem to realize just how big and old the universe really is!

Now go hit yourself on the thumb with a hammer, and in a world full of hammers and thumbs ask yourself that maybe you are the only person to ever do this!

Then realize that the universe has about a million to the millionth power times more chances for life to occur than we have hammers, thumbs, grains of sand, cracks in rocks and droplets of water and organic compounds combined!

 

[jwoodie]

Just because life developed on Earth is no justification for believing it also happened elsewhere. Simply multiplying some presumed probability by "a million to the millionth power" is nothing more than statistical sophistry. (What if the probability of (cellular) life developing on its own is less than one in a million to the millionth power?)

To take your argument to its logical extension, your exact body double exists on an exact duplicate of Earth wearing the same clothes and looking at the same computer screen as you are doing right now. Are you also certain that person exists?

Unless/until we discover life elsewhere in the universe, its existence remains pure conjecture.

 

[ReinyDays]

"Almost inevitable" ... if the universe is infinite in size, then we could say life elsewhere is certain ... but we generally believe the universe is finite, so we can't assign certainty ... in sciency mumbo-jumbo "as the size of the universe approaches infinity, the odds of life elsewhere approaches certainty" ... in regular speak: we're "hedging our bets" ...

Roll a die 13.7 billion times, there's exists a remote possibility that we'll never see a four come up ...

Keep in mind the basic building blocks for life are common in the universe ... hydrogen, carbon and oxygen ... so it appears that the only constraint on life is having water in it's liquid state on the planet surface ... everything else needed is available in abundance ... life will almost certainly spring up ... almost ...

 

[progressive hunter]

"Almost inevitable" ... if the universe is infinite in size, then we could say life elsewhere is certain ... but we generally believe the universe is finite, so we can't assign certainty ... in sciency mumbo-jumbo "as the size of the universe approaches infinity, the odds of life elsewhere approaches certainty" ... in regular speak: we're "hedging our bets" ...

Roll a die 13.7 billion times, there's exists a remote possibility that we'll never see a four come up ...

Keep in mind the basic building blocks for life are common in the universe ... hydrogen, carbon and oxygen ... so it appears that the only constraint on life is having water in it's liquid state on the planet surface ... everything else needed is available in abundance ... life will almost certainly spring up ... almost ...

there is no proof those building blocks exist anywhere but here,,,

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Just because life developed on Earth is no justification for believing it also happened elsewhere.

It certainly is justification for believing it almost certainly has happened elsewhere in the universe. There is a subtle difference there. Do you agree with the statement?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

so it appears that the only constraint on life is having water in it's liquid state on the planet surface

"On life"

*As we know it

 

[ReinyDays]

there is no proof those building blocks exist anywhere but here,,,

Emission spectra? ... you can look at the math yourself, let us know where the mistake is if you would ...

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

there is no proof those building blocks exist anywhere but here,,,

Emission spectra? ... you can look at the math yourself, let us know where the mistake is if you would ...

Don't let the troll derail the thread. Obviously his statement is false. The troll knows it is false.

 

[ReinyDays]

so it appears that the only constraint on life is having water in it's liquid state on the planet surface

"On life"
*As we know it

I think amino acids is the most economical ... perhaps there's another basic species that behaves the same ... but we're safe looking for this in the cosmos ...

Until we know why vital proteins spin one way here on Earth ... we can't say they can't spin the other way elsewhere ... and if we're visited by aliens, we should all collectively pray to God their proteins do in fact spin the other way ...

Water is a solvent, and the third most common substance in the universe ... if you remember your first year chemistry class, many many reactions occur in solution better than without ... consider pouring powdered boric acid on a pile of baking soda ... the reaction proceeds very slowly, whereas dissolve these reagents in water and mix, the reaction occurs quite robustly ... the water makes a huge difference ... it's possible for another solvent to be utilized on another planet ... but again we're safe searching for water-based life out there ...

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

so it appears that the only constraint on life is having water in it's liquid state on the planet surface

"On life"
*As we know it

I think amino acids is the most economical ... perhaps there's another basic species that behaves the same ... but we're safe looking for this in the cosmos ...

Until we know why vital proteins spin one way here on Earth ... we can't say they can't spin the other way elsewhere ... and if we're visited by aliens, we should all collectively pray to God their proteins do in fact spin the other way ...

Water is a solvent, and the third most common substance in the universe ... if you remember your first year chemistry class, many many reactions occur in solution better than without ... consider pouring powdered boric acid on a pile of baking soda ... the reaction proceeds very slowly, whereas dissolve these reagents in water and mix, the reaction occurs quite robustly ... the water makes a huge difference ... it's possible for another solvent to be utilized on another planet ... but again we're safe searching for water-based life out there ...

We are correct to look for life "as we know it". We don't have unlimited time and resources. And would we even recognize " life as we don't know it", if we saw it?

I understand the principles you mention. When chemicals are in solution (or suspension, important to note), much of the work of breaking chemical bonds is already done, and the chemicals are more likely to interact.

 

[ReinyDays]

We are correct to look for life "as we know it". We don't have unlimited time and resources. And would we even recognize " life as we don't know it", if we saw it?

I grew up with only the nine planets in the entire megaverse ... now we're finding exoplanets just about everywhere, and apparently we've been able to image a few ... the technology that allows this is still rapidly advancing and soon enough we'll be able to take spectra of these exoplanets ...

Our nitrogen/oxygen atmosphere ... and the spectrum it produces ... seems to be strictly a result of photosynthesis ...

Someday ... someday soon we'll find this ... out there ... are we ready? ...

 

[progressive hunter]

there is no proof those building blocks exist anywhere but here,,,

Emission spectra? ... you can look at the math yourself, let us know where the mistake is if you would ...

emissions of what???

they have to guess at that and then make assumptions,,

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

emissions of what???

Look it up, dumbass. When everyone else seems to know something, and you don't, your first thought as a functioning, rational adult should be to wonder why you are even commenting on something you know fuck all about, then go look it up yourself.

 

[progressive hunter]

emissions of what???

Look it up, dumbass. When everyone else seems to know something, and you don't, your first thought as a functioning, rational adult should be to wonder why you are even commenting on something you know fuck all about, then go look it up yourself.

look up what??? last I heard the farthest we've gone is the moon,,,after that its all guess work based on assumptions,,

 

[toobfreak]

Just because life developed on Earth is no justification for believing it also happened elsewhere

there is no proof those building blocks exist anywhere but here,,,

I'll try to say this just one more time for you guys. I'm an astronomer, I've studied astronomy, cosmology and astrophysics for about 50 years. I was going to go into it professionally but in high school, realized that the field would require me to relocate to another city far away, work in a university, endlessly applying for research grants to finance work writing papers and I didn't want to do that, so I got practical and went into electrical engineering instead.

But I still do astronomy, study it seriously, even teach it elsewhere, so let me say this as kindly as I can:

1. The justification for believing life MUST exist elsewhere and be rather common (even if intelligent, advanced civilizations aren't) is based on both physical and mathematical models and proof, some of it based on study of life here, that the odds of it not occurring elsewhere are so fantastically ridiculous as to be beyond laughable. It is extremely likely, we'll find traces of it under the sands of dead Mars, and active, primitive life living in the ocean of Europa and probably one or two other places ---- just within our own solar system and possibly discovered in the next 20 years or so. So to any Bible-Thumping Earth-centric thinkers out there who are offended by the idea that man is not unique in all creation, sorry, but that is a bet you are going to lose. In fact, I think the odds very good we have been visited by intelligent aliens.
2. There IS proof of those building blocks being rather common and we have found them all over. You don't need to go there and pick them up and hold them in your hand, they have been detected spectroscopically, and by robotic probes we have sent out which take samples and analyze. The proteins and amino acids needed for life as we know it are a common thing.

 

[jwoodie]

Just because life developed on Earth is no justification for believing it also happened elsewhere.

It certainly is justification for believing it almost certainly has happened elsewhere in the universe. There is a subtle difference there. Do you agree with the statement?

Not at all. Do you believe that your exact body double exists elsewhere in the universe? If not, why not?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Not at all.

Then you're wrong.

"Exact body double"

You will have to try that fallacy out on someone else. I am immune to this reiteration of Hoyles fallacy.