Is killing abortion doctors a moral right?

[emilynghiem]

And this is the main horrific drawback of all religions. It provides an airtight justification to kill other people. The people doing the killing actually feel good about it. This is far more dangerous than a criminal that gets his jollies harming or killing other people. Religion allows millions to perpetrate the most heinous acts on millions of others and think they are moral doing it.

I think it is the other way around.
People who are oppressive or abusive
"use religion" to justify their individual, political, or collective acts.
Just like some movements 'abuse race' or call for class war to attack one by another.

Yes, it makes it more dangerous if a religion enables collective action on a larger scale:
But that is true of corporations that commit genocide by the numbers and resources they effect,
or true of government and political groups that amass greater influence collectively.

Any collective group can become more dangerous as a mob, not just religious types.
The problem is when power is abused to override individual consent or dissent and due process.
That is what the Bill of Rights was included to check federal govt against violating individual rights.

If ALL collective entities were held to the same standards as the Bill of Rights, to respect the rights of individuals,
this could apply to all corporations or organized groups, religious or political, govt or NGO, churches, schools, media, parties or nonprofits.

 

[zaangalewa]

Things can go wrong from time to time on no special reasons. That's why everyone needs help. In case of abortion the most helpless group of human beings are the intentionally killed children. They lose everything.

I'm not an American. I'm not interested in the not existing secrets of others. I guess the NSA knows every reason why german women are aborting. The american politicians can publish this data, if they have a problem to publish the illegal data they have abhout the citizens of the USA. In general no one has to justify the own behavior in front of me or any believer in god - although I have to say very clear: the Oath of the Hippocrates is not allowing to do abortions or active euthanasia. If there are exceptions then doctors should have a very very clear indication why to kill a human being. Everyone is also responsible in the eyes of god. As far as I can see is the abortion rate in Germany much to high. A hundredthousand abortions every year are not explainable with the formula "things go wrong from time to time". I'm not surprised about, because of the side effects of the ideologies of the Nazis and Commies. Both idelogies saw in human beings only a useful or not useful part of their dead machines of thoughtless and senseless pseudoexistance.

I don't have any probem to live in a wild west world wide web, where everyone kills everyone on no reason to do so. Nevertheless I would shoot down in such a world everyone who tries to shoot down unarmed people - specially if he tries to shoot down innocent children. The answer I fear is not to have a right to do so - the answer I fear is to have the duty to do so. Do we have the duty to abort aborters?

Before an abortion is done in germany there is mandatory counseling. It is not a spur of the moment decision.

Abortion is forbidden in Germany. If I see it in the right way then to allow abortions would kill our complete system of justice including the Grundgesetz - our constitution. So we made some exceptions. We are great in making exceptions. The deeper reasons behind this exceptions is it to keep the number of all possibe abortions in a balance so we could be able to reach a minimum of the total numbers of abortions. We say: It's forbidden to do an abortion, but we don't punish someone if he aborts and fullfills some conditions. One of this conditions is a "Beratungsgespräch", a consultation. The sense of this is it to help the mother to find the best of all possible solutions for her problems and to avoid spontaneous actions. That's why we have less abortions than the USA. I heard it's only about 1/3 as high as in the USA per 100000 inhabitants. But even this is much to high. The very big problem in this context are the organsiations who are doing this consultations. One of the problems are for example organisations like "pro familia", which is one of the greatest organisation. "Pro familia" is against traditional families and for abortions. On the other side forbids the catholic church for example to do such consultations ... better to say: the catholic church allows not to give someone afterwards a paper where's written on, that she made such a consultation. The most Catholics in the world don't understand our system here and they see in such a writing a death sentence.

Whatever and however our system is - the numbers of abortions are much to high. It's impossible that all this abortions have a real serios background. More and more people seem to think abortion is only a kind of late contraception. If so then I have to say: "Abortion is the way to kill human beings just for sex".

So what do you think is the best way to minimize the number of abortions? And could it help to kill some doctors, who are doing abortions to reach a less number of abortions worldwide?

JibJab.com - Can-Can

>>Abortion in Germany is permitted in the first trimester upon condition of mandatory counseling, and later in pregnancy in cases of medical necessity<<

You don't know your own laws?.

I'm not very interrested what existing laws say about this theme. We will change our laws if necessarry. But it's not possible from all forms of logic to allow abortion without to destroy the human rights. So abortion is not permitted or allowed in Germany. But under some conditions we intentionally ignore this on reasons of pragmatism. This pragmatism is only sensefull as long as we are really able to minimize the total numbers of all abortion - as well "legal" and "illegal" abortions. I don't think this is a fact in Germany. Hopefully we did not open the box of the Pandorra again.

If you personally don't agree with abortions, then you should not get one. You should not presume to speak for everyone else, in germany or elsewhere.

I personally don't agree with the mass-murder called abortion. So you sound hyperarrogant in my ears if you think I have a choice in this question. I would love it very much if abortion would be not problem, but unfortunatelly my logic tells me something else. The question is in my case: If I am not against mass-murder, whoelse in the world should be against mass-murder? Freedom is for me always only freedom in the responsibility of the eyes of the Lord - freedom is for sure not freedom in the eyes of the united slaveholders of this planet. So: In some cases an abortion is able to be a sensefull instrument of medical care. But this is in most cases of abortions not so worldwide. Also not in Germany. The number of abortions is to high. So what do you think can we do to reduce drastically the total numbers of all abortions worldwide?

Dear zaangalewa
I agree there are ways to stop abortion fully

But this is not the very best way - the best way is to use abortions if really necessary and to let it be if it is not necessary. The problem is a problem of our all social competences. It seems materialism (Capitalism as well as Commmunism) destroy social competence. We are not parts of a machine - we are living entities.

but without making it illegal where it affects women more then men.

Solve that problem and people might unite around a solution.
I already suggested enforcing conditions on sex instead of abortion,
since the decision to have sex involves both partners, and doesn't just target the women.

Let me say it this way: I love women more than men - so I think it's the best to do what women say. Women normally love little children. They love a good nice home. They love security ... they hate agressions, violence and murder. Short: They love life - they hate death.

 

[aris2chat]

Why do women who want a child have miscarriages, still birth or other complications?

Things can go wrong from time to time on no special reasons. That's why everyone needs help. In case of abortion the most helpless group of human beings are the intentionally killed children. They lose everything.

It is not for you to know what happens between a woman and her doctor or see her medical records.

I'm not an American. I'm not interested in the not existing secrets of others. I guess the NSA knows every reason why german women are aborting. The american politicians can publish this data, if they have a problem to publish the illegal data they have abhout the citizens of the USA. In general no one has to justify the own behavior in front of me or any believer in god - although I have to say very clear: the Oath of the Hippocrates is not allowing to do abortions or active euthanasia. If there are exceptions then doctors should have a very very clear indication why to kill a human being. Everyone is also responsible in the eyes of god. As far as I can see is the abortion rate in Germany much to high. A hundredthousand abortions every year are not explainable with the formula "things go wrong from time to time". I'm not surprised about, because of the side effects of the ideologies of the Nazis and Commies. Both idelogies saw in human beings only a useful or not useful part of their dead machines of thoughtless and senseless pseudoexistance.

None of your business. If she sees and herbalist, how do you know what she is buying? If she orders a kit by mail or buys one accross the counter at the corner CVS, it is none of your Business.
If she is pregnant and wants to drink or use drugs, not you place to tell her what to do with her body. She might get tattoos and piercings, she might go bungie jumping, not your business. She might go to the grocery store and buy foods that induce a miscarriag, none of your business.

Her moral and religious values might permit abortions, that is her right. You don't get to stuff your religion down everyone's throat, your religion is for you alone. If you don't believe in abortion, then you should not have one. You don't get to tell other they cannot have a legal procedure or buy legal medicine across the counter.

None of your business

I don't have any probem to live in a wild west world wide web, where everyone kills everyone on no reason to do so. Nevertheless I would shoot down in such a world everyone who tries to shoot down unarmed people - specially if he tries to shoot down innocent children. The answer I fear is not to have a right to do so - the answer I fear is to have the duty to do so. Do we have the duty to abort aborters?

Before an abortion is done in germany there is mandatory counseling. It is not a spur of the moment decision.

Abortion is forbidden in Germany. If I see it in the right way then to allow abortions would kill our complete system of justice including the Grundgesetz - our constitution. So we made some exceptions. We are great in making exceptions. The deeper reasons behind this exceptions is it to keep the number of all possibe abortions in a balance so we could be able to reach a minimum of the total numbers of abortions. We say: It's forbidden to do an abortion, but we don't punish someone if he aborts and fullfills some conditions. One of this conditions is a "Beratungsgespräch", a consultation. The sense of this is it to help the mother to find the best of all possible solutions for her problems and to avoid spontaneous actions. That's why we have less abortions than the USA. I heard it's only about 1/3 as high as in the USA per 100000 inhabitants. But even this is much to high. The very big problem in this context are the organsiations who are doing this consultations. One of the problems are for example organisations like "pro familia", which is one of the greatest organisation. "Pro familia" is against traditional families and for abortions. On the other side forbids the catholic church for example to do such consultations ... better to say: the catholic church allows not to give someone afterwards a paper where's written on, that she made such a consultation. The most Catholics in the world don't understand our system here and they see in such a writing a death sentence.

Whatever and however our system is - the numbers of abortions are much to high. It's impossible that all this abortions have a real serios background. More and more people seem to think abortion is only a kind of late contraception. If so then I have to say: "Abortion is the way to kill human beings just for sex".

So what do you think is the best way to minimize the number of abortions? And could it help to kill some doctors, who are doing abortions to reach a less number of abortions worldwide?

JibJab.com - Can-Can

>>Abortion in Germany is permitted in the first trimester upon condition of mandatory counseling, and later in pregnancy in cases of medical necessity<<

You don't know your own laws?.

I'm not very interrested what existing laws say about this theme. We will change our laws if necessarry. But it's not possible from all forms of logic to allow abortion without to destroy the human rights. So abortion is not permitted or allowed in Germany. But under some conditions we intentionally ignore this on reasons of pragmatism. This pragmatism is only sensefull as long as we are really able to minimize the total numbers of all abortion - as well "legal" and "illegal" abortions. I don't think this is a fact in Germany. Hopefully we did not open the box of the Pandorra again.

If you personally don't agree with abortions, then you should not get one. You should not presume to speak for everyone else, in germany or elsewhere.

I personally don't agree with the mass-murder called abortion. So you sound hyperarrogant in my ears if you think I have a choice in thsim question,. I would love it very much if absiton would be not problem, but unfortunatelly my logic tells me something else. The question is in my case: If I am not against mass-murder, whoelse in the world should be against mass-murder? Freedom is for me always only freedom in the responsibility in the loving eyes of the Lord. i odme cases an absitons mis able to be a sensefulln intrsumetns of meicinfe. But this is not so worldwide. And also not in Germany. The number of abortions is to high. So what do you think can we do to reduce the total numbers of abortions?

Castration............ total, or at least neuter. Burdizzo is only around twenty or thirty dollars and very quick, just a little crunch.

Teach women about natural forms of birth control and what to do if the is a suspicion of pregnancy.

Abortions are legal in Germany in the first trimester. For a muslim women, it is within her faith and your "morality" should not interfere with her right. Same with someone that does not believe in god or even United Church of Christ, the United Methodist Church, the Episcopalian Church, United Presbyterian Church, the Episcopal Church, the Presbyterian Church, The United Church of Christ, The United Methodist Church, and the Lutheran. Most of the asian faiths have no opinion or permit abortion. For more people in the world than not, it is permitted. You are a minority.

>>Pope Innocent III (1198-1216) stated that a monk who had persuaded his mistress to have an abortion was not guilty of murder as long as the foetus had not yet been animated, which took place 40 days after conception for a boy, 80 for a girl, a definition Roman Canon law maintained until 1869. Pope Gregory XIII (1572-1585) declared that it was not murder to abort an embryo of less than 40 days<<


>>

• Genesis 2:7 declares that man “became a living being” only after God gave him life. Since breathing does not occur until birth, it is argued that the unborn are not human until they are born.

• Job 34:14-15 says that if God “withdrew his spirit and breath, all mankind would perish.” Here again, since life is connected with breath, it is reasoned that there is no human life before breath.
  
  
• Isaiah 57:16 refers to “the breath of man that I [God] have created.” This also seems to make the beginning of breath the point of the creation of a human being.
  
  
• Ecclesiastes 6:3-5 declares that “a stillborn child” comes into the world “without meaning, it departs in darkness, . . . it never saw the sun nor knew anything.” This is taken to indicate that the unborn are no more than the dead, who also know nothing but lie in the darkness of the grave (9:10).
  
  
• Matthew 26:24 records Jesus' statement about Judas that “it would have been better for him if he had not been born.” The implication drawn from this is that human life begins at birth. Otherwise, Jesus would have said it would have been better for him never to have been conceived.<<

Legal, moral, medical, historical, religious................. you have some other argument to be put down?

 

[emilynghiem]

Before an abortion is done in germany there is mandatory counseling. It is not a spur of the moment decision.

Abortion is forbidden in Germany. If I see it in the right way then to allow abortions would kill our complete system of justice including the Grundgesetz - our constitution. So we made some exceptions. We are great in making exceptions. The deeper reasons behind this exceptions is it to keep the number of all possibe abortions in a balance so we could be able to reach a minimum of the total numbers of abortions. We say: It's forbidden to do an abortion, but we don't punish someone if he aborts and fullfills some conditions. One of this conditions is a "Beratungsgespräch", a consultation. The sense of this is it to help the mother to find the best of all possible solutions for her problems and to avoid spontaneous actions. That's why we have less abortions than the USA. I heard it's only about 1/3 as high as in the USA per 100000 inhabitants. But even this is much to high. The very big problem in this context are the organsiations who are doing this consultations. One of the problems are for example organisations like "pro familia", which is one of the greatest organisation. "Pro familia" is against traditional families and for abortions. On the other side forbids the catholic church for example to do such consultations ... better to say: the catholic church allows not to give someone afterwards a paper where's written on, that she made such a consultation. The most Catholics in the world don't understand our system here and they see in such a writing a death sentence.

Whatever and however our system is - the numbers of abortions are much to high. It's impossible that all this abortions have a real serios background. More and more people seem to think abortion is only a kind of late contraception. If so then I have to say: "Abortion is the way to kill human beings just for sex".

So what do you think is the best way to minimize the number of abortions? And could it help to kill some doctors, who are doing abortions to reach a less number of abortions worldwide?

JibJab.com - Can-Can

>>Abortion in Germany is permitted in the first trimester upon condition of mandatory counseling, and later in pregnancy in cases of medical necessity<<

You don't know your own laws?.

I'm not very interrested what existing laws say about this theme. We will change our laws if necessarry. But it's not possible from all forms of logic to allow abortion without to destroy the human rights. So abortion is not permitted or allowed in Germany. But under some conditions we intentionally ignore this on reasons of pragmatism. This pragmatism is only sensefull as long as we are really able to minimize the total numbers of all abortion - as well "legal" and "illegal" abortions. I don't think this is a fact in Germany. Hopefully we did not open the box of the Pandorra again.

If you personally don't agree with abortions, then you should not get one. You should not presume to speak for everyone else, in germany or elsewhere.

I personally don't agree with the mass-murder called abortion. So you sound hyperarrogant in my ears if you think I have a choice in this question. I would love it very much if abortion would be not problem, but unfortunatelly my logic tells me something else. The question is in my case: If I am not against mass-murder, whoelse in the world should be against mass-murder? Freedom is for me always only freedom in the responsibility of the eyes of the Lord - freedom is for sure not freedom in the eyes of the united slaveholders of this planet. So: In some cases an abortion is able to be a sensefull instrument of medical care. But this is in most cases of abortions not so worldwide. Also not in Germany. The number of abortions is to high. So what do you think can we do to reduce drastically the total numbers of all abortions worldwide?

Dear zaangalewa
I agree there are ways to stop abortion fully

But this is not the very best way - the best way is to use abortions if really necessary and to let it be if it is not necessary. The problem is a problem of our all social competences. It seems materialism (Capitalism as well as Commmunism) destroy social competence. We are not parts of a machine - we are living entities.

but without making it illegal where it affects women more then men.

Solve that problem and people might unite around a solution.
I already suggested enforcing conditions on sex instead of abortion,
since the decision to have sex involves both partners, and doesn't just target the women.

Let me say it this way: I love women more than men - so I think it's the best to do what women say. Women normally love little children. They love a good nice home. They love security ... they hate agressions, violence and murder. Short: They love life - they hate death.

Dear zaangalewa I agree with you to take this more open approach.
What I am referring to, is in America there are people, citizens with rights to representation in govt
who do not believe in abortions going on legalized by govt. So the way to include those beliefs
is to work to eradicate them by more effective prevention:
* prevention of relationship abuse and sexual abuse
* diagnosis and treatment of any level of mental health, criminal or abusive issue
such as those that lead to rape, drugs and trafficking, sexual abuse etc
that can cause unwanted pregnancy unwanted children and coercion into sex and abortion
* organized financial social medical and educational support so women have better options than abortion
other people stress
* more effective birth control
* abstinence and health education
* spiritual and social education etc.

There are many angles to reduce the social causes,
one of the major factors missing is not teaching men equal responsibility.

 

[zaangalewa]

Things can go wrong from time to time on no special reasons. That's why everyone needs help. In case of abortion the most helpless group of human beings are the intentionally killed children. They lose everything.

I'm not an American. I'm not interested in the not existing secrets of others. I guess the NSA knows every reason why german women are aborting. The american politicians can publish this data, if they have a problem to publish the illegal data they have abhout the citizens of the USA. In general no one has to justify the own behavior in front of me or any believer in god - although I have to say very clear: the Oath of the Hippocrates is not allowing to do abortions or active euthanasia. If there are exceptions then doctors should have a very very clear indication why to kill a human being. Everyone is also responsible in the eyes of god. As far as I can see is the abortion rate in Germany much to high. A hundredthousand abortions every year are not explainable with the formula "things go wrong from time to time". I'm not surprised about, because of the side effects of the ideologies of the Nazis and Commies. Both idelogies saw in human beings only a useful or not useful part of their dead machines of thoughtless and senseless pseudoexistance.

I don't have any probem to live in a wild west world wide web, where everyone kills everyone on no reason to do so. Nevertheless I would shoot down in such a world everyone who tries to shoot down unarmed people - specially if he tries to shoot down innocent children. The answer I fear is not to have a right to do so - the answer I fear is to have the duty to do so. Do we have the duty to abort aborters?

Before an abortion is done in germany there is mandatory counseling. It is not a spur of the moment decision.

Abortion is forbidden in Germany. If I see it in the right way then to allow abortions would kill our complete system of justice including the Grundgesetz - our constitution. So we made some exceptions. We are great in making exceptions. The deeper reasons behind this exceptions is it to keep the number of all possibe abortions in a balance so we could be able to reach a minimum of the total numbers of abortions. We say: It's forbidden to do an abortion, but we don't punish someone if he aborts and fullfills some conditions. One of this conditions is a "Beratungsgespräch", a consultation. The sense of this is it to help the mother to find the best of all possible solutions for her problems and to avoid spontaneous actions. That's why we have less abortions than the USA. I heard it's only about 1/3 as high as in the USA per 100000 inhabitants. But even this is much to high. The very big problem in this context are the organsiations who are doing this consultations. One of the problems are for example organisations like "pro familia", which is one of the greatest organisation. "Pro familia" is against traditional families and for abortions. On the other side forbids the catholic church for example to do such consultations ... better to say: the catholic church allows not to give someone afterwards a paper where's written on, that she made such a consultation. The most Catholics in the world don't understand our system here and they see in such a writing a death sentence.

Whatever and however our system is - the numbers of abortions are much to high. It's impossible that all this abortions have a real serios background. More and more people seem to think abortion is only a kind of late contraception. If so then I have to say: "Abortion is the way to kill human beings just for sex".

So what do you think is the best way to minimize the number of abortions? And could it help to kill some doctors, who are doing abortions to reach a less number of abortions worldwide?

JibJab.com - Can-Can

>>Abortion in Germany is permitted in the first trimester upon condition of mandatory counseling, and later in pregnancy in cases of medical necessity<<

You don't know your own laws?.

I'm not very interrested what existing laws say about this theme. We will change our laws if necessarry. But it's not possible from all forms of logic to allow abortion without to destroy the human rights. So abortion is not permitted or allowed in Germany. But under some conditions we intentionally ignore this on reasons of pragmatism. This pragmatism is only sensefull as long as we are really able to minimize the total numbers of all abortion - as well "legal" and "illegal" abortions. I don't think this is a fact in Germany. Hopefully we did not open the box of the Pandorra again.

If you personally don't agree with abortions, then you should not get one. You should not presume to speak for everyone else, in germany or elsewhere.

I personally don't agree with the mass-murder called abortion. So you sound hyperarrogant in my ears if you think I have a choice in thsim question,. I would love it very much if absiton would be not problem, but unfortunatelly my logic tells me something else. The question is in my case: If I am not against mass-murder, whoelse in the world should be against mass-murder? Freedom is for me always only freedom in the responsibility in the loving eyes of the Lord. i odme cases an absitons mis able to be a sensefulln intrsumetns of meicinfe. But this is not so worldwide. And also not in Germany. The number of abortions is to high. So what do you think can we do to reduce the total numbers of abortions?

Castration............ total, or at least neuter. Burdizzo is only around twenty or thirty dollars and very quick, just a little crunch.

Teach women about natural forms of birth control and what to do if the is a suspicion of pregnancy.

Abortions are legal in Germany in the first trimester.

No! No one is allowed to do an abortion in Germany except under well defined conditions. But I don't discuss with you now about german laws and why we made exceptions from the rule not to allow abortions.

For a muslim women, it is within her faith and your "morality" should not interfere with her right.

I'm not a Muslim. So I don't know wether this is true or not.

Same with someone that does not believe in god or even United Church of Christ, the United Methodist Church, the Episcopalian Church, United Presbyterian Church, the Episcopal Church, the Presbyterian Church, The United Church of Christ, The United Methodist Church, and the Lutheran. Most of the asian faiths have no opinion or permit abortion. For more people in the world than not, it is permitted. You are a minority.

A catholic unicorn is never in any form of minority - even if it is the last unicorn. And no serios christian church "allows" abortions.

>>Pope Innocent III (1198-1216) stated that a monk who had persuaded his mistress to have an abortion was not guilty of murder as long as the foetus had not yet been animated, which took place 40 days after conception for a boy, 80 for a girl, a definition Roman Canon law maintained until 1869. Pope Gregory XIII (1572-1585) declared that it was not murder to abort an embryo of less than 40 days<<


>>

Not bad laws in their time of history. But today we know more: A human being is a human being in the 39th day of existance as well as it is a human being in the 40th day or any other day of existance. If you can give me a very concrete scientific fact what makes a human being dependenmt on the age of the human being not to a human being than I have to change something in my opinion. But I don't have to change something, because two of our Popes regulated the system of law 400 and 800 years ago. You can see by the way that never anyone thought baptismals service makes someone to a human being - although this had a great logic, because the expressions "to be a child of god" (spiritually) and "to be a human being" (biologically) are nearly the same.

• Genesis 2:7 declares that man “became a living being” only after God gave him life. Since breathing does not occur until birth, it is argued that the unborn are not human until they are born.

What's maybe a misinterpretation because the breath of god is a spiritual breath. Our lifes seem always to be created with and in his spirit. Whatever. Not important for me in this context now. I'm a Christian - you are an Atheist. I don't see what's the sense that you try to give me religious lessons in tolerating abortions.

• Job 34:14-15 says that if God “withdrew his spirit and breath, all mankind would perish.” Here again, since life is connected with breath, it is reasoned that there is no human life before breath.
  
  
• Isaiah 57:16 refers to “the breath of man that I [God] have created.” This also seems to make the beginning of breath the point of the creation of a human being.
  
  
• Ecclesiastes 6:3-5 declares that “a stillborn child” comes into the world “without meaning, it departs in darkness, . . . it never saw the sun nor knew anything.” This is taken to indicate that the unborn are no more than the dead, who also know nothing but lie in the darkness of the grave (9:10).
  
  
• Matthew 26:24 records Jesus' statement about Judas that “it would have been better for him if he had not been born.” The implication drawn from this is that human life begins at birth. Otherwise, Jesus would have said it would have been better for him never to have been conceived.<<

Legal, moral, medical, historical, religious................. you have some other argument to be put down?

Very easy. No one has any right to kill an innocent human being. By the way: Buddhism (=great asian religion) doesn't allow abortions for example and as far as I know also a Muslim has not the right to kill an innocent human being. And I heard even atheists are not allowed to kill innocent human beings, or are they?

 

[Faun]

A doctor is performing a late term abortion and killing a baby which is an objectively human life, then would an individual have a moral right to kill them in defense of human life? (Just as some may argue that abolitionists had a right to kill slave owners in defense of the lives of slaves?)

(The state is of course a social construct and has no inherent rights but what the people give it, so while it might be illegal to kill an abortion doctor, if it's done in defense of an innocent life, I don't see why someone wouldn't have a right to do it).

Better question: "Is killing a right of doctors?" My answer: "Not at all!" A doctor is not a hangman but a healer. And it's also not a human right to give executioners the order to kill innocent human beings.

Doctors hasten death all the time with drugs. **** man, are you really that ignorant?

I don't accept your racistic Nazi-style and specially I don't discuss with "****"-words about abortion. This interaction of a woman and a man to create a baby is the most beautiful god given action human beings are able to do. And a doctor, a healer, never should kill anyone because in this case no one is able to trust in doctors any longer.

And it's none of your ******* business what a woman chooses to do with her body.

 

[Chuz Life]

You have a serious reading & comprehension problem. Don't you.

I guess so. Please explain the difference between taking a vegetative stoke victim off a feeding tube is any different from not feeding a fertilized egg?

Let's see. . .

Do you mean other than the fact that a vegetative stroke victim who has NO prognosis for a normal life continuance at all is only being kept alive artificially while the fertilized egg typically has a much better prognosis and a NON artificial life support system?

Do you really think a doctor (any doctor) would remove life support from a stroke victim that has anywhere close to the same prognosis for further life, growth and development that a child even in the zygote stage of their life has?

or what?

Modern medical care give the embryo a better chance, but the woman's body treats it like an invasion. Miscarriages in the first trimester are common.

Unplugging someone at the end of life or unplugging en embryo from the umbilical connection to the women is a legal right. In some case there is even medical assisted suicide that is legal. Five state even allow euthanasia.

If someone wants to get pregnant or even raise a child with that person's DNA. Why should women who are not ready to raise a child be forced to keep it? When food is scares or there is some danger, some animals can actually put their pregnancy on hold till a better year. Women can put their eggs in storage to be used at a later time. Why is it necessary for a woman be required to carry her pregnancy to term? There are a few million children that need homes, adopt all of them by loving people before the need for more unwanted chidren. 30% of children have only one parent.

Consider the conditions and the ability of the women to care for a child and what type of life it will have. In times of war, natural disaster or catastrophic injury or illness either of the woman or someone she cares for. A child at that time endangers the woman, the person she cares for the child itself.

What ever the reason, it is the woman that needs to decide and her medical records are not open to your examination or judgement.

Some people by culture or religion have no opinion about abortion. Your morality should not trump theirs or you making you beliefs above someone elses. Your religion or morals are yours alone. You should not proselytize or force you ideas on others.

You don't get to decide if a person wants to end their life with dignity or if a woman wants to terminate a pregnancy.

you only get to decide for your own body or if someone give you legal proxy to make decisions for them if they are unable to

Most responsible pet owners get their pet spayed or neutered. Why should people not decide if and when they are ready for become parent.

With the spread of STDs, all men should wear condoms, not leave birth control up to the women. Girls and young women should learn how to use nature to birth control, abortions and prenatal. They should be taught some moves to protect themselves as well.

Sex is health for body and mind. Just because you have your view based on your religion does not mean other share you ides or moral opinions.

You object to abortion, don't get one. Don't tell others what to do.

Chuz Life does not care about babies. He only cares about the fetus. He once told me that it's simply not his problem because there are (cough, cough) laws to protect the children. He's just fine with children going through up to 42 foster homes, with mental problems, who will never have a chance at a normal life, as long as he can save the fetus. He has no problem forcing a woman to give birth against her will, even if she ends up physically abusing or killing the child because he only thinks about the fetus.

Fetus cannot lie if the mother dies. It is not a living being till it can live on it's own.

Why should a female have to put her life on hold because a pregnancy? It should be her right to choose if and when to become a mother, to be ready to raise and love a child, otherwise it is just a carcass that is a burden on society. No child that is not loved can truly thrive. Even if a child is wanted during pregnancy, a woman can reject it at birth. Mother hormones just are not there and she can be repulsed by the infant. Some women just are not meant to be a mother.
A child should be brought into the world with love, not because a woman is forced to carry and give birth. She is not a brood mare or slave.
A child can be a wonderful thing, but a mother that rejects her child can result in tragic results.
Better to have fewer children that will be cherished than children that are not wanted. There are enough millions of children in the world that need love. We don't need to produce more children fighters, drug addicts and criminals. We can't produce enough food or jobs as it is.
We don't need human factories, we need care and devotion to raise the best children to carry us into the next several generation. Now we have too many that can't make change, sign their name, speak in public or write a proper letter.

It is not more children we need but better raised and educated children that can compete in the world. Quality of exceptional children not quantity. We don't live in the time of the black death where 50% of the population died off.

A child in the womb most certainly is alive. How would it be capable of growth and development if it were not alive?

This fact is the basis for our fetal homicide laws.

The rest of the garbage that you are trying to bring into this has nothing to do with the rights of the child.

A persons rights should begin when their life does and not just when pro abort hacks like you can not stomach the denial of their rights anymore.

 

[Faun]

I guess so. Please explain the difference between taking a vegetative stoke victim off a feeding tube is any different from not feeding a fertilized egg?

Let's see. . .

Do you mean other than the fact that a vegetative stroke victim who has NO prognosis for a normal life continuance at all is only being kept alive artificially while the fertilized egg typically has a much better prognosis and a NON artificial life support system?

Do you really think a doctor (any doctor) would remove life support from a stroke victim that has anywhere close to the same prognosis for further life, growth and development that a child even in the zygote stage of their life has?

or what?

Modern medical care give the embryo a better chance, but the woman's body treats it like an invasion. Miscarriages in the first trimester are common.

Unplugging someone at the end of life or unplugging en embryo from the umbilical connection to the women is a legal right. In some case there is even medical assisted suicide that is legal. Five state even allow euthanasia.

If someone wants to get pregnant or even raise a child with that person's DNA. Why should women who are not ready to raise a child be forced to keep it? When food is scares or there is some danger, some animals can actually put their pregnancy on hold till a better year. Women can put their eggs in storage to be used at a later time. Why is it necessary for a woman be required to carry her pregnancy to term? There are a few million children that need homes, adopt all of them by loving people before the need for more unwanted chidren. 30% of children have only one parent.

Consider the conditions and the ability of the women to care for a child and what type of life it will have. In times of war, natural disaster or catastrophic injury or illness either of the woman or someone she cares for. A child at that time endangers the woman, the person she cares for the child itself.

What ever the reason, it is the woman that needs to decide and her medical records are not open to your examination or judgement.

Some people by culture or religion have no opinion about abortion. Your morality should not trump theirs or you making you beliefs above someone elses. Your religion or morals are yours alone. You should not proselytize or force you ideas on others.

You don't get to decide if a person wants to end their life with dignity or if a woman wants to terminate a pregnancy.

you only get to decide for your own body or if someone give you legal proxy to make decisions for them if they are unable to

Most responsible pet owners get their pet spayed or neutered. Why should people not decide if and when they are ready for become parent.

With the spread of STDs, all men should wear condoms, not leave birth control up to the women. Girls and young women should learn how to use nature to birth control, abortions and prenatal. They should be taught some moves to protect themselves as well.

Sex is health for body and mind. Just because you have your view based on your religion does not mean other share you ides or moral opinions.

You object to abortion, don't get one. Don't tell others what to do.

Chuz Life does not care about babies. He only cares about the fetus. He once told me that it's simply not his problem because there are (cough, cough) laws to protect the children. He's just fine with children going through up to 42 foster homes, with mental problems, who will never have a chance at a normal life, as long as he can save the fetus. He has no problem forcing a woman to give birth against her will, even if she ends up physically abusing or killing the child because he only thinks about the fetus.

Fetus cannot lie if the mother dies. It is not a living being till it can live on it's own.

Why should a female have to put her life on hold because a pregnancy? It should be her right to choose if and when to become a mother, to be ready to raise and love a child, otherwise it is just a carcass that is a burden on society. No child that is not loved can truly thrive. Even if a child is wanted during pregnancy, a woman can reject it at birth. Mother hormones just are not there and she can be repulsed by the infant. Some women just are not meant to be a mother.
A child should be brought into the world with love, not because a woman is forced to carry and give birth. She is not a brood mare or slave.
A child can be a wonderful thing, but a mother that rejects her child can result in tragic results.
Better to have fewer children that will be cherished than children that are not wanted. There are enough millions of children in the world that need love. We don't need to produce more children fighters, drug addicts and criminals. We can't produce enough food or jobs as it is.
We don't need human factories, we need care and devotion to raise the best children to carry us into the next several generation. Now we have too many that can't make change, sign their name, speak in public or write a proper letter.

It is not more children we need but better raised and educated children that can compete in the world. Quality of exceptional children not quantity. We don't live in the time of the black death where 50% of the population died off.

A child in the womb most certainly is alive. How would it be capable of growth and development if it were not alive?

This fact is the basis for our fetal homicide laws.

The rest of the garbage that you are trying to bring into this has nothing to do with the rights of the child.

A persons rights should begin when their life does and not just when pro abort hacks like you can not stomach the denial of their rights anymore.

And for women in America, their rights supercede the rights of the unborn child inside them. You don't get to decide what they do with their body.

 

[zaangalewa]

A doctor is performing a late term abortion and killing a baby which is an objectively human life, then would an individual have a moral right to kill them in defense of human life? (Just as some may argue that abolitionists had a right to kill slave owners in defense of the lives of slaves?)

(The state is of course a social construct and has no inherent rights but what the people give it, so while it might be illegal to kill an abortion doctor, if it's done in defense of an innocent life, I don't see why someone wouldn't have a right to do it).

Better question: "Is killing a right of doctors?" My answer: "Not at all!" A doctor is not a hangman but a healer. And it's also not a human right to give executioners the order to kill innocent human beings.

Doctors hasten death all the time with drugs. **** man, are you really that ignorant?

I don't accept your racistic Nazi-style and specially I don't discuss with "****"-words about abortion. This interaction of a woman and a man to create a baby is the most beautiful god given action human beings are able to do. And a doctor, a healer, never should kill anyone because in this case no one is able to trust in doctors any longer.

And it's none of your ******* business what a woman chooses to do with her body.

If a woman with her child takes a canister of kerosine and a lighter and starts to take a bath in the kerosine - then you never in your life saw such an ice cold flash runner like me - in one hand the lady, in the other hand the lighter and in the third hand the baby ... hopefully! Except maybe she's an US-American. Then I will call you to discuss with her about her wonderful body. I will see wether it helps her really to do so.

 

[Faun]

A doctor is performing a late term abortion and killing a baby which is an objectively human life, then would an individual have a moral right to kill them in defense of human life? (Just as some may argue that abolitionists had a right to kill slave owners in defense of the lives of slaves?)

(The state is of course a social construct and has no inherent rights but what the people give it, so while it might be illegal to kill an abortion doctor, if it's done in defense of an innocent life, I don't see why someone wouldn't have a right to do it).

Better question: "Is killing a right of doctors?" My answer: "Not at all!" A doctor is not a hangman but a healer. And it's also not a human right to give executioners the order to kill innocent human beings.

Doctors hasten death all the time with drugs. **** man, are you really that ignorant?

I don't accept your racistic Nazi-style and specially I don't discuss with "****"-words about abortion. This interaction of a woman and a man to create a baby is the most beautiful god given action human beings are able to do. And a doctor, a healer, never should kill anyone because in this case no one is able to trust in doctors any longer.

And it's none of your ******* business what a woman chooses to do with her body.

If a woman with her child takes a canister of kerosine and a lighter and starts to take a bath in the kerosine - then you never in your life saw such an ice cold flash runner like me - in one hand the lady, in the other hand the lighter and in the third hand the baby ... hopefully! Except maybe she's an US-American. Then I will call you to discuss with her about her wonderful body. I will see wether it helps her really to do so.

You be sure to let me know when that actually happens outside of your imagination, k?

 

[Mudda]

A doctor is performing a late term abortion and killing a baby which is an objectively human life, then would an individual have a moral right to kill them in defense of human life? (Just as some may argue that abolitionists had a right to kill slave owners in defense of the lives of slaves?)

(The state is of course a social construct and has no inherent rights but what the people give it, so while it might be illegal to kill an abortion doctor, if it's done in defense of an innocent life, I don't see why someone wouldn't have a right to do it).

Better question: "Is killing a right of doctors?" My answer: "Not at all!" A doctor is not a hangman but a healer. And it's also not a human right to give executioners the order to kill innocent human beings.

Doctors hasten death all the time with drugs. **** man, are you really that ignorant?

I don't accept your racistic Nazi-style and specially I don't discuss with "****"-words about abortion. This interaction of a woman and a man to create a baby is the most beautiful god given action human beings are able to do. And a doctor, a healer, never should kill anyone because in this case no one is able to trust in doctors any longer.

And it's none of your ******* business what a woman chooses to do with her body.

If a woman with her child takes a canister of kerosine and a lighter and starts to take a bath in the kerosine - then you never in your life saw such an ice cold flash runner like me - in one hand the lady, in the other hand the lighter and in the third hand the baby ... hopefully! Except maybe she's an US-American. Then I will call you to discuss with her about her wonderful body. I will see wether it helps her really to do so.

Why don't you just say that you want to put them in a big oven? Too much of a ***** to say so?

 

[Faun]

Better question: "Is killing a right of doctors?" My answer: "Not at all!" A doctor is not a hangman but a healer. And it's also not a human right to give executioners the order to kill innocent human beings.

Doctors hasten death all the time with drugs. **** man, are you really that ignorant?

I don't accept your racistic Nazi-style and specially I don't discuss with "****"-words about abortion. This interaction of a woman and a man to create a baby is the most beautiful god given action human beings are able to do. And a doctor, a healer, never should kill anyone because in this case no one is able to trust in doctors any longer.

And it's none of your ******* business what a woman chooses to do with her body.

If a woman with her child takes a canister of kerosine and a lighter and starts to take a bath in the kerosine - then you never in your life saw such an ice cold flash runner like me - in one hand the lady, in the other hand the lighter and in the third hand the baby ... hopefully! Except maybe she's an US-American. Then I will call you to discuss with her about her wonderful body. I will see wether it helps her really to do so.

Why don't you just say that you want to put them in a big oven? Too much of a ***** to say so?

Ouch

 

[Nosmo King]

"Is killing abortion doctors a moral right?"

No, of course not – the notion is moronic idiocy; it isn’t any kind of ‘right.’

People have no right to use violence to defend innocent life?

Just how "Pro-Life" are you?

 

[Chuz Life]

The OP uses the same logic Isis uses to behead people. They believe they're right and all that matter is they believe it.

Does anyone have the right to kill in an act of self defense or in defense of another?

If your answer to that is yes. . . Then why would that not include a situation where someone is acting in defense of a prenatal child? I'm pretty sure (at least in some states) it's even justified to shoot someone who is trying to harm your livestock or property. . . So, why not a child in the womb?

 

[Mudda]

The OP uses the same logic Isis uses to behead people. They believe they're right and all that matter is they believe it.

Does anyone have the right to kill in an act of self defense or in defense of another?

If your answer to that is yes. . . Then why would that not include a situation where someone is acting in defense of a prenatal child? I'm pretty sure (at least in some states) it's even justified to shoot someone who is trying to harm your livestock or property. . . So, why not a child in the womb?

So you'd kill the mother to save the unborn child? What a ******* GREAT IDEA!!!

 

[Carla_Danger]

A doctor is performing a late term abortion and killing a baby which is an objectively human life, then would an individual have a moral right to kill them in defense of human life? (Just as some may argue that abolitionists had a right to kill slave owners in defense of the lives of slaves?)

(The state is of course a social construct and has no inherent rights but what the people give it, so while it might be illegal to kill an abortion doctor, if it's done in defense of an innocent life, I don't see why someone wouldn't have a right to do it).

Better question: "Is killing a right of doctors?" My answer: "Not at all!" A doctor is not a hangman but a healer. And it's also not a human right to give executioners the order to kill innocent human beings.

Doctors hasten death all the time with drugs. **** man, are you really that ignorant?

I don't accept your racistic Nazi-style and specially I don't discuss with "****"-words about abortion. This interaction of a woman and a man to create a baby is the most beautiful god given action human beings are able to do. And a doctor, a healer, never should kill anyone because in this case no one is able to trust in doctors any longer.

And it's none of your ******* business what a woman chooses to do with her body.

If a woman with her child takes a canister of kerosine and a lighter and starts to take a bath in the kerosine - then you never in your life saw such an ice cold flash runner like me - in one hand the lady, in the other hand the lighter and in the third hand the baby ... hopefully! Except maybe she's an US-American. Then I will call you to discuss with her about her wonderful body. I will see wether it helps her really to do so.

This is talk of a crazy person.

 

[Carla_Danger]

The OP uses the same logic Isis uses to behead people. They believe they're right and all that matter is they believe it.

Does anyone have the right to kill in an act of self defense or in defense of another?

If your answer to that is yes. . . Then why would that not include a situation where someone is acting in defense of a prenatal child? I'm pretty sure (at least in some states) it's even justified to shoot someone who is trying to harm your livestock or property. . . So, why not a child in the womb?

So you'd kill the mother to save the unborn child? What a ******* GREAT IDEA!!!

And then Chuz will let wolves raise it, because that's how much he cares about the fetus.

 

[Chuz Life]

The OP uses the same logic Isis uses to behead people. They believe they're right and all that matter is they believe it.

Does anyone have the right to kill in an act of self defense or in defense of another?

If your answer to that is yes. . . Then why would that not include a situation where someone is acting in defense of a prenatal child? I'm pretty sure (at least in some states) it's even justified to shoot someone who is trying to harm your livestock or property. . . So, why not a child in the womb?

So you'd kill the mother to save the unborn child? What a ******* GREAT IDEA!!!

It's a wonder that leftardz don't get embarrassed by their predictable over reactions and distortions.

Where did anyone say anything about killing the mother, moron?

Obviously killing the mother while she is in the middle of killing her prenatal child would do little if anything to save the child.

Logic is far from your strongest suit isn't it.

 

[zaangalewa]

Better question: "Is killing a right of doctors?" My answer: "Not at all!" A doctor is not a hangman but a healer. And it's also not a human right to give executioners the order to kill innocent human beings.

Doctors hasten death all the time with drugs. **** man, are you really that ignorant?

I don't accept your racistic Nazi-style and specially I don't discuss with "****"-words about abortion. This interaction of a woman and a man to create a baby is the most beautiful god given action human beings are able to do. And a doctor, a healer, never should kill anyone because in this case no one is able to trust in doctors any longer.

And it's none of your ******* business what a woman chooses to do with her body.

If a woman with her child takes a canister of kerosine and a lighter and starts to take a bath in the kerosine - then you never in your life saw such an ice cold flash runner like me - in one hand the lady, in the other hand the lighter and in the third hand the baby ... hopefully! Except maybe she's an US-American. Then I will call you to discuss with her about her wonderful body. I will see wether it helps her really to do so.

Why don't you just say that you want to put them in a big oven? Too much of a ***** to say so?

No comment, Nazi.

 

[aris2chat]

Before an abortion is done in germany there is mandatory counseling. It is not a spur of the moment decision.

Abortion is forbidden in Germany. If I see it in the right way then to allow abortions would kill our complete system of justice including the Grundgesetz - our constitution. So we made some exceptions. We are great in making exceptions. The deeper reasons behind this exceptions is it to keep the number of all possibe abortions in a balance so we could be able to reach a minimum of the total numbers of abortions. We say: It's forbidden to do an abortion, but we don't punish someone if he aborts and fullfills some conditions. One of this conditions is a "Beratungsgespräch", a consultation. The sense of this is it to help the mother to find the best of all possible solutions for her problems and to avoid spontaneous actions. That's why we have less abortions than the USA. I heard it's only about 1/3 as high as in the USA per 100000 inhabitants. But even this is much to high. The very big problem in this context are the organsiations who are doing this consultations. One of the problems are for example organisations like "pro familia", which is one of the greatest organisation. "Pro familia" is against traditional families and for abortions. On the other side forbids the catholic church for example to do such consultations ... better to say: the catholic church allows not to give someone afterwards a paper where's written on, that she made such a consultation. The most Catholics in the world don't understand our system here and they see in such a writing a death sentence.

Whatever and however our system is - the numbers of abortions are much to high. It's impossible that all this abortions have a real serios background. More and more people seem to think abortion is only a kind of late contraception. If so then I have to say: "Abortion is the way to kill human beings just for sex".

So what do you think is the best way to minimize the number of abortions? And could it help to kill some doctors, who are doing abortions to reach a less number of abortions worldwide?

JibJab.com - Can-Can

>>Abortion in Germany is permitted in the first trimester upon condition of mandatory counseling, and later in pregnancy in cases of medical necessity<<

You don't know your own laws?.

I'm not very interrested what existing laws say about this theme. We will change our laws if necessarry. But it's not possible from all forms of logic to allow abortion without to destroy the human rights. So abortion is not permitted or allowed in Germany. But under some conditions we intentionally ignore this on reasons of pragmatism. This pragmatism is only sensefull as long as we are really able to minimize the total numbers of all abortion - as well "legal" and "illegal" abortions. I don't think this is a fact in Germany. Hopefully we did not open the box of the Pandorra again.

If you personally don't agree with abortions, then you should not get one. You should not presume to speak for everyone else, in germany or elsewhere.

I personally don't agree with the mass-murder called abortion. So you sound hyperarrogant in my ears if you think I have a choice in thsim question,. I would love it very much if absiton would be not problem, but unfortunatelly my logic tells me something else. The question is in my case: If I am not against mass-murder, whoelse in the world should be against mass-murder? Freedom is for me always only freedom in the responsibility in the loving eyes of the Lord. i odme cases an absitons mis able to be a sensefulln intrsumetns of meicinfe. But this is not so worldwide. And also not in Germany. The number of abortions is to high. So what do you think can we do to reduce the total numbers of abortions?

Castration............ total, or at least neuter. Burdizzo is only around twenty or thirty dollars and very quick, just a little crunch.

Teach women about natural forms of birth control and what to do if the is a suspicion of pregnancy.

Abortions are legal in Germany in the first trimester.

No! No one is allowed to do an abortion in Germany except under well defined conditions. But I don't discuss with you now about german laws and why we made exceptions from the rule not to allow abortions.

For a muslim women, it is within her faith and your "morality" should not interfere with her right.

I'm not a Muslim. So I don't know wether this is true or not.

Same with someone that does not believe in god or even United Church of Christ, the United Methodist Church, the Episcopalian Church, United Presbyterian Church, the Episcopal Church, the Presbyterian Church, The United Church of Christ, The United Methodist Church, and the Lutheran. Most of the asian faiths have no opinion or permit abortion. For more people in the world than not, it is permitted. You are a minority.

A catholic unicorn is never in any form of minority - even if it is the last unicorn. And no serios christian church "allows" abortions.

>>Pope Innocent III (1198-1216) stated that a monk who had persuaded his mistress to have an abortion was not guilty of murder as long as the foetus had not yet been animated, which took place 40 days after conception for a boy, 80 for a girl, a definition Roman Canon law maintained until 1869. Pope Gregory XIII (1572-1585) declared that it was not murder to abort an embryo of less than 40 days<<


>>

Not bad laws in their time of history. But today we know more: A human being is a human being in the 39th day of existance as well as it is a human being in the 40th day or any other day of existance. If you can give me a very concrete scientific fact what makes a human being dependenmt on the age of the human being not to a human being than I have to change something in my opinion. But I don't have to change something, because two of our Popes regulated the system of law 400 and 800 years ago. You can see by the way that never anyone thought baptismals service makes someone to a human being - although this had a great logic, because the expressions "to be a child of god" (spiritually) and "to be a human being" (biologically) are nearly the same.

• Genesis 2:7 declares that man “became a living being” only after God gave him life. Since breathing does not occur until birth, it is argued that the unborn are not human until they are born.

What's maybe a misinterpretation because the breath of god is a spiritual breath. Our lifes seem always to be created with and in his spirit. Whatever. Not important for me in this context now. I'm a Christian - you are an Atheist. I don't see what's the sense that you try to give me religious lessons in tolerating abortions.

• Job 34:14-15 says that if God “withdrew his spirit and breath, all mankind would perish.” Here again, since life is connected with breath, it is reasoned that there is no human life before breath.
  
  
• Isaiah 57:16 refers to “the breath of man that I [God] have created.” This also seems to make the beginning of breath the point of the creation of a human being.
  
  
• Ecclesiastes 6:3-5 declares that “a stillborn child” comes into the world “without meaning, it departs in darkness, . . . it never saw the sun nor knew anything.” This is taken to indicate that the unborn are no more than the dead, who also know nothing but lie in the darkness of the grave (9:10).
  
  
• Matthew 26:24 records Jesus' statement about Judas that “it would have been better for him if he had not been born.” The implication drawn from this is that human life begins at birth. Otherwise, Jesus would have said it would have been better for him never to have been conceived.<<

Legal, moral, medical, historical, religious................. you have some other argument to be put down?

Very easy. No one has any right to kill an innocent human being. By the way: Buddhism (=great asian religion) doesn't allow abortions for example and as far as I know also a Muslim has not the right to kill an innocent human being. And I heard even atheists are not allowed to kill innocent human beings, or are they?

>>
1) a pregnant woman requests the abortion and can demonstrate to the doctor that she has undergone consultation at least three days prior to the abortion;

2) the abortion is performed by a medical doctor; and

3) the abortion takes place within the first trimester.

The penal code further states that an abortion is not considered unlawful if the doctor determines that a pregnancy endangers the woman’s life or severely compromises her physical or mental health and no other solution can be found. If the pregnancy is the result of rape, an abortion is lawful. In both cases, the abortion is to be performed within the first trimester.

In addition, abortions that are performed prior to the twenty-third week of pregnancy are lawful if the woman is found to be under particular distress at the time of the procedure and has undergone consultation. Individuals performing an abortion without the determination by a doctor that the life and health of a pregnant woman are compromised will be prosecuted under paragraph 218b.

The consultation prior to an abortion is to be performed by a state-recognized social service agency that advises women on pregnancies (Schwangerschaftskonfliktstelle). The agency issues a certificate for the doctor who is to perform the abortion and it serves to exempt the doctor and woman from being prosecuted under paragraph 218. The doctor who performs the abortion is not eligible to advise his/her patient.<<

Islam permits a woman to get an abortion in the first 140 days. If there is a health issue for the mother or the fetus has a defect an abortion can be done even later.

Buddhism considers all life a sacred but an abortion is the choice of the woman's, she has to decide what is right for her, 'to find her own way'.


It is not for others to decide, it is up to the woman, her rights and her needs. It is her life.