Zone1 Is Jesus God?

[kjw47]

You have to say Jesus was there and was instrumental in creation, because the Bible clearly states He created everything that was created. That contradicts your assertion that it was God alone who did all the creating. You would be a lot more credible if you were citing a Bible written by scholars who could read the original languages.

Error filled translations and blind guides who do not know what the bible teaches twist it all into oblivion and make hundreds of confused religions called christian religions.

 

[kjw47]

hmmm, I thought to my atheistic self... 'since it matters not to me I think I'll answer YES'! then I saw the above^ and decided if I wanted to be looked upon as one who thinks for him/her/theyself I should answer the way you have decided all self thinkers should answer, by letting you do it for us, so, NO?...so how'd I do on the whole "your question"-"our answer thing"?

^Reads^ like:
A) an old set of 70's stereo instructions.
B) the "HOW TO PLAY" instructions on the front of those old 80'S arcade video games you'd find in a laundromat.
C) a finger wagging document often known as "TERMS OF AGREEMENT"
D) a too cute by half, transparent white liberal rant.

(This is my favorite part)
While "D" is the obvious answer to any thinking persons response I will accept any/or all responses as correct...see how that works?

Sad you live in darkness.

 

[kjw47]

From the New World Translation:

Rev 5:

6 And I saw standing in the midsthttps://www.jw.org/#footnote of the throne and of the four living creatures and in the midst of the elders a lamb that seemed to have been slaughtered, having seven horns and seven eyes, and the eyes mean the seven spirits of Godi that have been sent out into the whole earth. 7 At once he came forward and took it out of the right hand of the One seated on the throne.j 8 When he took the scroll, the four living creatures and the 24 eldersk fell down before the Lamb, and each one had a harp and golden bowls that were full of incense. (The incense means the prayers of the holy ones.)l 9 And they sing a new song,m saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, for you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought people for God out of every tribe and tonguehttps://www.jw.org/#footnotehttps://www.jw.org/#footnote and people and nation, 10 and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.”11 And I saw, and I heard a voice of many angels around the throne and the living creatures and the elders, and the number of them was myriads of myriads* and thousands of thousands, 12 and they were saying with a loud voice: “The Lamb who was slaughtered is worthy to receive the power and riches and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and blessing.”13 And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and underneath the earth and on the sea, and all the things in them, saying: “To the One sitting on the throne and to the Lamb be the blessing and the honor and the glory and the might forever and ever.” 14 The four living creatures were saying: “Amen!” and the elders fell down and worshipped.

You know, for a created being, Yeshua is certainly being set right up there as equal to God, getting worship and praise that goes to God. Now, do you HONESTLY think God is going to tolerate anyone other than Himself being worshipped in such a way IN HIS own heaven? This is your own translation. Now, are you going to claim your own translation is corrupted? Maybe you should ask for another revision to correct this.

From the New World Translation:

Rev 5:

6 And I saw standing in the midsthttps://www.jw.org/#footnote of the throne and of the four living creatures and in the midst of the elders a lamb that seemed to have been slaughtered, having seven horns and seven eyes, and the eyes mean the seven spirits of Godi that have been sent out into the whole earth. 7 At once he came forward and took it out of the right hand of the One seated on the throne.j 8 When he took the scroll, the four living creatures and the 24 eldersk fell down before the Lamb, and each one had a harp and golden bowls that were full of incense. (The incense means the prayers of the holy ones.)l 9 And they sing a new song,m saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, for you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought people for God out of every tribe and tonguehttps://www.jw.org/#footnotehttps://www.jw.org/#footnote and people and nation, 10 and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.”11 And I saw, and I heard a voice of many angels around the throne and the living creatures and the elders, and the number of them was myriads of myriads* and thousands of thousands, 12 and they were saying with a loud voice: “The Lamb who was slaughtered is worthy to receive the power and riches and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and blessing.”13 And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and underneath the earth and on the sea, and all the things in them, saying: “To the One sitting on the throne and to the Lamb be the blessing and the honor and the glory and the might forever and ever.” 14 The four living creatures were saying: “Amen!” and the elders fell down and worshipped.

You know, for a created being, Yeshua is certainly being set right up there as equal to God, getting worship and praise that goes to God. Now, do you HONESTLY think God is going to tolerate anyone other than Himself being worshipped in such a way IN HIS own heaven? This is your own translation. Now, are you going to claim your own translation is corrupted? Maybe you should ask for another revision to correct this.

The lamb wasn't on the throne-Jehovah God was. He received the worship. Verse 12shows what the lamb gets, worship is not one of those mentioned.

 

[hadit]

Error filled translations and blind guides who do not know what the bible teaches twist it all into oblivion and make hundreds of confused religions called christian religions.

That's why I show you where your own translation screams that Jesus is God. You cannot afford to admit your translation is error filled and a blind guide.

 

[hadit]

The lamb wasn't on the throne-Jehovah God was. He received the worship. Verse 12shows what the lamb gets, worship is not one of those mentioned.

Did you miss the part in bold? I ask because it appears that you did. Both Jesus and the Father receive the same praise. In addition, WHO is doing the worshipping and praising? Why, none other than ALL creatures, EVERY creature in heaven, on earth, under the earth, and on the sea. Do you understand that? Who is held apart from all the creatures, or created beings? None other than Jesus. The created are worshipping the creator. Remember, this is your own translation saying this, so you can't claim it to be in error or a perverted translation.

 

[Frankeneinstein]

Sad you live in darkness.

Now a reasonably thinking person would conclude you are not happy because you are trying to look in through a window...see how that works?

 

[kjw47]

That's why I show you where your own translation screams that Jesus is God. You cannot afford to admit your translation is error filled and a blind guide.

My bible doesn't teach Jesus is God, That would make Jesus a liar if it did-John 17:3--Jesus is clear-The one who sent him=Father is THE ONLY TRUE GOD.
The darkness who twists passages see Jesus as God.

 

[kjw47]

Did you miss the part in bold? I ask because it appears that you did. Both Jesus and the Father receive the same praise. In addition, WHO is doing the worshipping and praising? Why, none other than ALL creatures, EVERY creature in heaven, on earth, under the earth, and on the sea. Do you understand that? Who is held apart from all the creatures, or created beings? None other than Jesus. The created are worshipping the creator. Remember, this is your own translation saying this, so you can't claim it to be in error or a perverted translation.

You are wrong, the one on the throne is getting the worship.

 

[kjw47]

Now a reasonably thinking person would conclude you are not happy because you are trying to look in through a window...see how that works?

What?

 

[hadit]

You are wrong, the one on the throne is getting the worship.

Sorry, now you're just lying in the face of Scripture:

"To the One sitting on the throne and to the Lamb be the blessing and the honor and the glory and the might forever and ever.”

But, go on, tell us how that doesn't mean what it says. Tell us it has an alternate meaning, then try to make something up.

 

[hadit]

My bible doesn't teach Jesus is God, That would make Jesus a liar if it did-John 17:3--Jesus is clear-The one who sent him=Father is THE ONLY TRUE GOD.

And I've shown where Jesus voluntarily lowered Himself and took a secondary role to the Father. I've shown you how my taking a secondary role to my boss at work doesn't diminish me as a human being equal to him, just like the way Jesus and the Father work together. I've shown you how Jesus created everything that was created. Yet you just ignore it all and robotically repeat your catch phrases that you were taught, hoping against hope that they would shut me up.

The darkness who twists passages see Jesus as God.

I've shown you where Scripture makes it very clear that Jesus is God. You choose to ignore your own translation when it counters your beliefs.

I've shown you where Jesus claims He will raise Himself from the dead, in your translation.
I've shown you where Jesus and the Father are both receiving the same praise and worship, in your translation.

You have studiously and deliberately chosen to ignore your own version of the Bible that was carefully rewritten to remove anything that would point to Jesus being God, yet still has it.
You have studiously and deliberately chosen to ignore your own version of the Bible when I've shown you how it points to Jesus as God. Is your belief so ingrained in you that you simply cannot allow yourself to see what even the translation that was given you as the authoritative word of God says? Do you place other writings above the Bible when it comes to this? I believe that you do, and stop looking to Scripture, because it counters what you want to believe.

 

[Frankeneinstein]

What?

my bad, just re-read it and that is one poorly constructed sentence...sorry.

 

[kjw47]

Sorry, now you're just lying in the face of Scripture:

"To the One sitting on the throne and to the Lamb be the blessing and the honor and the glory and the might forever and ever.”

But, go on, tell us how that doesn't mean what it says. Tell us it has an alternate meaning, then try to make something up.

It says nothing about worship to the lamb in that passage.

 

[kjw47]

And I've shown where Jesus voluntarily lowered Himself and took a secondary role to the Father. I've shown you how my taking a secondary role to my boss at work doesn't diminish me as a human being equal to him, just like the way Jesus and the Father work together. I've shown you how Jesus created everything that was created. Yet you just ignore it all and robotically repeat your catch phrases that you were taught, hoping against hope that they would shut me up.

I've shown you where Scripture makes it very clear that Jesus is God. You choose to ignore your own translation when it counters your beliefs.

I've shown you where Jesus claims He will raise Himself from the dead, in your translation.
I've shown you where Jesus and the Father are both receiving the same praise and worship, in your translation.

You have studiously and deliberately chosen to ignore your own version of the Bible that was carefully rewritten to remove anything that would point to Jesus being God, yet still has it.
You have studiously and deliberately chosen to ignore your own version of the Bible when I've shown you how it points to Jesus as God. Is your belief so ingrained in you that you simply cannot allow yourself to see what even the translation that was given you as the authoritative word of God says? Do you place other writings above the Bible when it comes to this? I believe that you do, and stop looking to Scripture, because it counters what you want to believe.

And i assured you. your translations are altered and filled with errors to fit false council teachings. No trinity god was served prior to the council of Constantinople=381 ce when Catholicism added the holy spirit for the first time to a godhead. Its recorded history FACT.

 

[hadit]

It says nothing about worship to the lamb in that passage.

Again, blatant lies. Anyone who can read English can see that the One on the throne AND the Lamb are getting the same honor, something I do not believe God would accept. I do have to say, though, that at least you didn't go with your original claim that it just means something it doesn't say.

 

[kjw47]

Again, blatant lies. Anyone who can read English can see that the One on the throne AND the Lamb are getting the same honor, something I do not believe God would accept. I do have to say, though, that at least you didn't go with your original claim that it just means something it doesn't say.

Honor isn't worship. Even a judge gets honor. Its the same exact Greek word used as worship for God=Proskenue( spelled wrong) It has 5 different meaning from Greek to English-1) worship to God-2) obeisance to a king-3) honor to a judge, plus 2 others. Error translations has worship to Gods appointed king when obeisance is the correct usage for him.

 

[hadit]

And i assured you. your translations are altered and filled with errors to fit false council teachings. No trinity god was served prior to the council of Constantinople=381 ce when Catholicism added the holy spirit for the first time to a godhead. Its recorded history FACT.

I used your translation. I showed you Jesus is God using your translation of the Bible. Did you forget that?

 

[hadit]

Honor isn't worship. Even a judge gets honor. Its the same exact Greek word used as worship for God=Proskenue( spelled wrong) It has 5 different meaning from Greek to English-1) worship to God-2) obeisance to a king-3) honor to a judge, plus 2 others. Error translations has worship to Gods appointed king when obeisance is the correct usage for him.

When Scripture shows us the Father AND the Son getting the same honor and glory, it's worship. Where else in Scripture do we see ANYONE getting the SAME glory and honor as the Father AT THE SAME TIME? Where?

 

[kjw47]

I used your translation. I showed you Jesus is God using your translation of the Bible. Did you forget that?

No you didn't. You twisted the words. If Jesus were God he would be a liar--He is 100% clear-John 17:3-The one who sent him( Father) is THE ONLY TRUE GOD.

 

[kjw47]

When Scripture shows us the Father AND the Son getting the same honor and glory, it's worship. Where else in Scripture do we see ANYONE getting the SAME glory and honor as the Father AT THE SAME TIME? Where?

You adding to the bible worship when its not in that passage is a serious mistake. Honor and glory is not worship.