Is It Wrong to Think Homosexuality is a Sin?

[ChrisL]

How could any "god" allow such a thing to happen? I don't care what his reasons are. To allow a child to suffer horribly at the hands of the people he/she is supposed to love and trust??? That is THE most horrible crime and sin that there is, to murder your BORN child. Much worse than getting an abortion, IMO.

 

[skye]

It's a Sin to tell a lie...


what funnyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

 

[ChrisL]

Imagine the horror of being a little baby or a child and having your parent beat you to death. OMG. If there are devils, those people are devils.

 

[ding]

Ummm... I didn't see me making that argument. I'm a real shit. No saint at all. You are equating the advantage my faith provides me as somehow me thinking I am better than you. Not the case. Nothing special about me.

There are moral laws just like there are physical laws. With physical laws the consequence of violating it is immediate, not so for moral laws. Often time you get away with it. But make no mistake failed behaviors naturally lead to failure just as surely as successful behaviors lead to success. It is just a matter of time and in this way consciousness evolves just like every other stage of evolution before it. It actually follows a set pattern which is similar to the technology cycle.

I can have morals without having a religious belief. In fact, I actually do have very strong moral values. The entire concept of god or gods is just too ridiculous and outrageous for me to ever believe without some serious solid proof. It is as simple as that. I have no "faith" in a god. There is nothing more to it.

Do you believe it is moral to end a human life?

That depends upon the circumstances. Is the person suffering from a terminal disease and is in constant pain and does the person want to die? Is it a serial killer who is so far gone, there is no hope for any kind of meaningful rehabilitation and re-entrance into society because he or she is too dangerous?

A baby in the womb.

I don't think it is moral to have an abortion. I would not have one. However, that is not my decision to make for another woman. I am not her. I am not in her shoes. Some people are probably mentally/emotionally incapable of being parents. There are cases of HORRIBLE abuse where children are actually murdered by their own parents. Would those children have been better off never existing at all? I don't know.

But is it immoral?

 

[ding]

Imagine the horror of being a little baby or a child and having your parent beat you to death. OMG. If there are devils, those people are devils.

Yep, life is tough. Are you saying you'd never want the chance because of a thought crime?

 

[ChrisL]

I can have morals without having a religious belief. In fact, I actually do have very strong moral values. The entire concept of god or gods is just too ridiculous and outrageous for me to ever believe without some serious solid proof. It is as simple as that. I have no "faith" in a god. There is nothing more to it.

Do you believe it is moral to end a human life?

That depends upon the circumstances. Is the person suffering from a terminal disease and is in constant pain and does the person want to die? Is it a serial killer who is so far gone, there is no hope for any kind of meaningful rehabilitation and re-entrance into society because he or she is too dangerous?

A baby in the womb.

I don't think it is moral to have an abortion. I would not have one. However, that is not my decision to make for another woman. I am not her. I am not in her shoes. Some people are probably mentally/emotionally incapable of being parents. There are cases of HORRIBLE abuse where children are actually murdered by their own parents. Would those children have been better off never existing at all? I don't know.

But is it immoral?

To me it is, yes. Anyways, why are you questioning MY moral beliefs? What difference does it make to you?

 

[ding]

How could any "god" allow such a thing to happen? I don't care what his reasons are. To allow a child to suffer horribly at the hands of the people he/she is supposed to love and trust??? That is THE most horrible crime and sin that there is, to murder your BORN child. Much worse than getting an abortion, IMO.

And therein lies your problem. You can't imagine a god unless everything is perfect.

 

[ChrisL]

How could any "god" allow such a thing to happen? I don't care what his reasons are. To allow a child to suffer horribly at the hands of the people he/she is supposed to love and trust??? That is THE most horrible crime and sin that there is, to murder your BORN child. Much worse than getting an abortion, IMO.

And therein lies your problem. You can't imagine a god unless everything is perfect.

There is no such thing as "perfect."

 

[skye]

the only sin is to tell a lie my possums....that's the only sin on earth LOL

 

[ding]

Do you believe it is moral to end a human life?

That depends upon the circumstances. Is the person suffering from a terminal disease and is in constant pain and does the person want to die? Is it a serial killer who is so far gone, there is no hope for any kind of meaningful rehabilitation and re-entrance into society because he or she is too dangerous?

A baby in the womb.

I don't think it is moral to have an abortion. I would not have one. However, that is not my decision to make for another woman. I am not her. I am not in her shoes. Some people are probably mentally/emotionally incapable of being parents. There are cases of HORRIBLE abuse where children are actually murdered by their own parents. Would those children have been better off never existing at all? I don't know.

But is it immoral?

To me it is, yes. Anyways, why are you questioning MY moral beliefs? What difference does it make to you?

Just proving that since you don't believe in a higher power you're more willing to accept morally relativistic values. Which is exactly what my siggie that you found so offensive says.

 

[ding]

How could any "god" allow such a thing to happen? I don't care what his reasons are. To allow a child to suffer horribly at the hands of the people he/she is supposed to love and trust??? That is THE most horrible crime and sin that there is, to murder your BORN child. Much worse than getting an abortion, IMO.

And therein lies your problem. You can't imagine a god unless everything is perfect.

There is no such thing as "perfect."

Which is why you will never accept that God exists.

 

[ChrisL]

How could any "god" allow such a thing to happen? I don't care what his reasons are. To allow a child to suffer horribly at the hands of the people he/she is supposed to love and trust??? That is THE most horrible crime and sin that there is, to murder your BORN child. Much worse than getting an abortion, IMO.

And therein lies your problem. You can't imagine a god unless everything is perfect.

There is no such thing as "perfect."

Which is why you will never accept that God exists.

Whatever. Yawn. Do you have something to add to thread topic? Any response to my prior post about the sin of homosexuality versus the sin of infidelity?

 

[westwall]

I said "make your case for your god," and you said "God or gods?" Which one would think means that you believe in more than one god.

No. It's because your kind is disingenuous and switching back and forth between the three all the while trying to bring in specific theological precepts for the express purpose of muddying the water.

I've already started establishing that what was created can be used as evidence.

We exist in a universe where there has never been an uncaused event. Which means that everything happened for a reason. Otherwise known as cause and effect. Everything has unfolded per the laws of nature. Laws which existed before space and time. Laws which controlled the creation of space and time. We live in a universe where the laws of nature are such that beings that know and create were predestined to exist by the laws of nature. Given enough time and the right conditions, beings that know and create will arise. The potential for beings that know and create existed before space and time were created. All energy and matter which exists today was created when space and time came into existence. Since that time it has merely changed form. Which means that the energy which makes up who we are was present when space and time were created. You can't know what something is by how it starts. You can only know what something is by what it is when it is finished. In this case the product of these rules is intelligence. We live in a universe that is defined by rules. Intelligence is behind rules. Rather than emerging as a late outgrowth in the evolution of life, mind has existed always as the matrix, the source and condition of physical reality - that the stuff of which physical reality is composed is mind-stuff. It is Mind that has composed a physical universe that breeds life, and so eventually evolves creatures that know and create.

We can confirm this in a myriad of a number of ways.

It is certainly the hypothesis of a theist. But the logic is unsupported by fact. You have supposition only. Supposition is not fact.

I've got science all the way back to the beginning (as best we can) and I have reason and logic for before that point and I have what has unfolded since that time and what that tells us.

Yes, but your position is entirely based on supposition. You declare that the Laws of Physics require an intellect to be. I say that the Universe functions based on the Laws of Physics that simply are.

Then everything in science is supposition as supposition can mean theory. So, I'm not sure what your distinction is implying.

Is the universe becoming self aware of itself supposition?

Do you understand the difference between a supposition and a fact?

 

[Skull Pilot]

She said that evolution explains how the universe came into existence. That is a lie.

More of a misunderstanding. That still doesn't explain why a self-avowed Christian would spread hate and call someone a fucking liar.

As for Evolution: An all powerful God can certainly cause the Big Bang almost 14 Billion years ago and know what fruit it would bear.

Just to clarify- the Big Bang Theory and the Theory of Evolution are essentially unrelated.

Even if the Big Bang Theory is incorrect, it doesn't change the theory of evolution.

And neither theories explain the origin of life on earth.

Correct about Big Bang and Evolution. The Big Bang has been proved through weight of evidence.

What is unknown is the cause of the Big Bang and whether or not there is anything outside of our own universe.

It just best fits our observations. The flaw there is assuming our observations are not only accurate but complete

What are you observations of before the Big Bang?

Agreed about the difference between accuracy and completeness. It's similar to the maxim "an absence of evidence is not evidence of absence".

As I have said before we may very well be incapable of understanding the universe in its entirety. We know nothing of dark matter and dark energy other than something else exists in the universe that adds to the gravitational forces we see at work.

We think Dark energy comprises 70% of the known universe and we do not understand dark energy at all so by admission we fail to understand 70% of the universe. Add to that the estimated percentage of the known universe being what we think is cold dark matter and we find that we don't understand 95% of our observed universe

We already admit that the laws of physics as we understand them didn't exist or even apply at the time of the big bang if there was a big bang. So we are trying to explain a phenomenon that may have happened with a set of laws that didn't exist at the time and might not even be able to explain the event.

 

[sealybobo]

What do you think?

If you believe you have a right to believe this, and you are offended, is it OK to voice this?

It's wrong because a man made religion said it's wrong. You have the right to be ignorant though.

 

[Bonzi]

If we are incapable of understanding things, why is that limited to what we perceive as "science"?

People have no problem believing in evil forces, ghosts etc. Why not a supreme being?

 

[Bonzi]

What do you think?

If you believe you have a right to believe this, and you are offended, is it OK to voice this?

It's wrong because a man made religion said it's wrong. You have the right to be ignorant though.

Biblically, laws are made for the benefit of US - if we followed the 10 commandments, we would be more well adjusted, happier people and thrive much better. That is the Christian take anyway....

 

[sealybobo]

What do you think?

If you believe you have a right to believe this, and you are offended, is it OK to voice this?

It's wrong because a man made religion said it's wrong. You have the right to be ignorant though.

Biblically, laws are made for the benefit of US - if we followed the 10 commandments, we would be more well adjusted, happier people and thrive much better. That is the Christian take anyway....

I could come up with ten thou shall nots too.

Thou shall not be a homophobe or racist would be one. Don't hate anything god made

 

[Bonzi]

What do you think?

If you believe you have a right to believe this, and you are offended, is it OK to voice this?

It's wrong because a man made religion said it's wrong. You have the right to be ignorant though.

Biblically, laws are made for the benefit of US - if we followed the 10 commandments, we would be more well adjusted, happier people and thrive much better. That is the Christian take anyway....

I could come up with ten thou shall nots too.

Thou shall not be a homophobe or racist would be one. Don't hate anything god made

God DOES want us to love each other. It's the 2nd greatest commandment
#1 is love God
#2 is love others as yourself (of course if you hate yourself, that can be a problem)... (just kidding)

 

[Marion Morrison]

Funny how 5 out of 6 engineers I know are avid churchgoers.

Wait..make that 6 out of 7.

Right about now, I'm trying to remember who the outlier is. I know it's someone that's not related.