Is it Possible for Israel and Palestine to Peacefully Coexist?

[Toddsterpatriot]

I already told you. This territory was excluded from the Mandate when 'Palestine' was supposed to be divided on separate states.

Right, the Arabs got 75% of the Mandate and they whined when they were told they'd
have to share the rest.

Maybe they should just settle for the 75% they already have?

 

[Lisa558]

Q: Do the proposals being discussed factor in all the land that Arabs have stolen from Jews? Almost 1 million Jews were driven from their homes throughout the Middle East (Egyptian Jews, as an example, were given 24 hours to vacate, and forced to sign documents giving their property to the Arabs), and previously thriving Jewish communities throughout the region have been eliminated.

IOW, are we just discussing what Jews and Palestinians need to do, and ignoring the wrongs committed against Jews by all the other Arabs?

 

[Shusha]

The Emirate of Transjordan wasn't part of 'Palestine'.

It was.

ART. 25.​

In the territories lying between the Jordan and the eastern boundary of Palestine as ultimately determined, the Mandatory shall be entitled, with the consent of the Council of the League of Nations, to postpone or withhold application of such provisions of this mandate as he may consider inapplicable to the existing local conditions, and to make such provision for the administration of the territories as he may consider suitable to those conditions, provided that no action shall be taken which is inconsistent with the provisions of Articles 15, 16 and 18.

 

[ESay]

UNSC Resolutions are binding on member states. UNSC Resolutions DO NOT ESTABLISH BORDERS between States. The UNSC does not have that legal authority. Even if they did, and they DON'T, there is no UNSC Resolution which ESTABLISHES a border between Israel and some non-existent entity commonly called "Palestine

For more than 100 countries around the world it is not 'non-existent entity', but the State of Palestine that has its own borders.

Yes. Arabs agreed that the territory was to be fully under Israeli control, civil and military, meaning applying Israeli sovereignty to that territory, pending final negotiations for borders (among other issues

What agreement it was?

 

[Lisa558]

For more than 100 countries around the world it is not 'non-existent entity', but the State of Palestine that has its own borders.

There’s no State of Palestine.

 

[Shusha]

For more than 100 countries around the world it is not 'non-existent entity', but the State of Palestine that has its own borders.

Again, law is not a popularity contest. Other countries don't vote on where Canada ends and the US begins.

What are Palestine's borders? What treaty or agreement created them?

What agreement it was?

Oslo Accords.

 

[Lisa558]

Again, law is not a popularity contest. Other countries don't vote on where Canada ends and the US begins.

What are Palestine's borders? What treaty or agreement created them?

Oslo Accords.

It’s at the end of the yellow brick road, next to Emerald City.

 

[ESay]

It was.

ART. 25.​

In the territories lying between the Jordan and the eastern boundary of Palestine as ultimately determined, the Mandatory shall be entitled, with the consent of the Council of the League of Nations, to postpone or withhold application of such provisions of this mandate as he may consider inapplicable to the existing local conditions, and to make such provision for the administration of the territories as he may consider suitable to those conditions, provided that no action shall be taken which is inconsistent with the provisions of Articles 15, 16 and 18.

Okay, what is Mandatory Palestine then?

 

[toomuchtime_]

I made it very clear didn't I ?

Entire Gaza needs to be handed over to Israel - if Palestinians want to remain there it is up to Israel.
Entire West-bank needs to be handed over to the Palestinians - if Jews want to remain there it is up to the Palestinians.

However it is clear that any of the two who remain in the others territory are bound to create problems aka violence - since both sides will make sure of internal conflicts - giving the other side an excuse to "intervene".

Therefore the only workable solution IMO - is to have a clear ethnic separation for at least the next 25 years.

And in 50 years who knows - maybe both sides will hopefully find a common state attractive.

BTW, it's the exact same story for Ukraine - if nationalistic Ukrainians and nationalistic Russian-Ukrainians wouldn't have gotten at each other throats - Putin could have done nothing, without getting the entire world against him.

The Palestinians claim all of Israel and the territories as their state and have repeatedly rejected the proposal of a state only in the territories, and there is no support in Israel for a Palestinian state in the West Bank or Gaza, so this would not serve to bring peace.

For Israel the issue is security and so peace would have to be a precondition to any negotiations about the Palestinians' problems.

 

[Lisa558]

Here is where you will find the non-existent Mandatory Palestine:

(I think my pre-dinner brandy has kicked in,)

 

[ESay]

Again, law is not a popularity contest. Other countries don't vote on where Canada ends and the US begins.

What are Palestine's borders? What treaty or agreement created them

Why not? If there is no treaty or agreement between the countries. Do your country recognize Kosovo?

Oslo Accords

That were never implemented.

 

[ESay]

There’s no State of Palestine.

146 countries disagree with you.

 

[Shusha]

There’s no State of Palestine.

but the State of Palestine that has its own borders.

The thing that is holding the State of Palestine from being fully recognized as a state is the issue of borders (defined territory). Requirements for Statehood:

1. defined population
2. defined territory
3. government
4. capacity to enter into Agreements with other states

(Montevideo Convention, 1933)

Note: recognition by other states is not a requirement for statehood under the Convention (though it helps).

 

[Shusha]

Okay, what is Mandatory Palestine then?

It was all of what is now labelled Israel "proper", Gaza, West Bank, and Jordan, with the option, which was indeed exercised, to detach Jordan into a separate territory. But Israel and Jordan was the original "two-state solution".

 

[Lisa558]

146 countries disagree with you.

Yeah, plenty of antisemitism and ignorance in the world.

 

[gipper]

Yeah, plenty of antisemitism and ignorance in the world.

Is the Talmud your scared text?

 

[Shusha]

146 countries disagree with you.

146 countries that can not provide any evidence of a treaty or agreement which divides Israel from Palestine.

 

[ESay]

The thing that is holding the State of Palestine from being fully recognized as a state is the issue of borders (defined territory). Requirements for Statehood:

1. defined population
2. defined territory
3. government
4. capacity to enter into Agreements with other states

(Montevideo Convention, 1933)

Note: recognition by other states is not a requirement for statehood under the Convention (though it helps).

The only thing that is holding the State of Palestine from being fully recognised is the stance of the USoA. If some sovereign state recognizes some part of the world as a sovereign state it means that the former one accepts that these requirements are met enough for them.

 

[ESay]

It was all of what is now labelled Israel "proper", Gaza, West Bank, and Jordan, with the option, which was indeed exercised, to detach Jordan into a separate territory. But Israel and Jordan was the original "two-state solution".

No, that is not how things work. Was Jordan detached into a separate territory? At the times when the Mandate was still in place.

 

[Shusha]

The only thing that is holding the State of Palestine from being fully recognised is the stance of the USoA. If some sovereign state recognizes some part of the world as a sovereign state it means that the former one accepts that these requirements are met enough for them.

Another sovereign state can't just decide where Canada ends and the US begins. China can't just up and say that Idaho is Canadian soil.