Is it Possible for Israel and Palestine to Peacefully Coexist?

[Coyote]

You know how I feel about ethnic cleansing no matter who is perpetrating it. And I try to call it out and think I did on this thread?

Yes, you’ve done that multiple times

 

[DGS49]

Even given the last fifteen months of history, "Palestinians" are nearly unanimous in stating that they can NEVER see "Palestine" living peacefully alongside a Jewish State.

The only path forward is for the Arab territories in the Holy Land to be governed as a U.N. "protectorate." They are too stupid and evil to be trusted with self government. This was obvious even before October 6th.

 

[Coyote]

Even given the last fifteen months of history, "Palestinians" are nearly unanimous in stating that they can NEVER see "Palestine" living peacefully alongside a Jewish State.

The only path forward is for the Arab territories in the Holy Land to be governed as a U.N. "protectorate." They are too stupid and evil to be trusted with self government. This was obvious even before October 6th.

They don’t trust the Israelis and the Israelis don’t trust them. It is impasse. They are neither stupid nor evil.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Israel stole the Golan Heights from Syria a few decades ago.
Every country in the world recognizes the Golan Heights belongs to Syria; except the U.S. and Israel.
Israel government now backs Netanyahu's plan to double the number of Jewish settlements on the Golan Heights.

Because the Syrians had been using them to shell Israeli civilians for decades AND Syria attacked Israel. Losing territory is often the result of a defeat in a war.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Even given the last fifteen months of history, "Palestinians" are nearly unanimous in stating that they can NEVER see "Palestine" living peacefully alongside a Jewish State.

The only path forward is for the Arab territories in the Holy Land to be governed as a U.N. "protectorate." They are too stupid and evil to be trusted with self government. This was obvious even before October 6th.

You mean an organization like UNRWA which is totally anti-Israel and allows its personnel to operate as adjuncts to Hamas and for Hamas to use UNRWA sites are weapons caches and headquarters.

 

[AZrailwhale]

“Deep ties” is not equivalent to indigeneity. The history of the Jewish people and their indigeneity is being worn away and erased. And trying to make “deep ties” and indigeneity equivalent is one of the ways this is done.

The Temple complex, as example, can be a shared holy place but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t usurped.

(You know I respect the Arab Palestinians “deep ties” and their rights to self determination).

The Muslims have a long history of destroying and or appropriating other religion’s holy places. The Hagia Sophia is a prime example. It was built as the most impressive cathedral in Christendom, then the Muslims defaces all the Christian religious components and converted it to a mosque.

 

[toomuchtime_]

IMO that has always been in the background, and there certainly is certainly a political faction that wants that. How much power they actually have to do it remains to be seen. This reminds me of the US, westward expansion, native peoples and Manifest Destiny.

It is precisely this extraordinary level of ignorance and bigotry you display that sustains and even encourages the violence. What the Arabs have suffered from is their own refusal to live in peace with Jews, nothing more.

Had the Arabs not invaded the new state of Israel in 1948 with the announced intent to eradicate the Jews, Israel would not have grown from 14, 900 sq. miles to 20, 500 sq. miles as defined by the 1949 armistice agreement.

https://israeled.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/comparison-1947-partition-plan.pdf

Had the Arabs been willing to live in peace with the Jews, this never would have happened.

In 1967 the Arabs tried to destroy Israel by closing the Straits of Tiran through which 90% of Israe's oil was delivered, thus starting the Six Day War, and while fighting back attacking armies from Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and Iraq, Israel came into possession of Sinai, Gaza, Golan, West Bank. Immediately after the war, Israel offered to return all of these lands in exchange for peace with the countries that lost them, but again the Arabs refused.

Had the Arabs been willing to live in peace with the Jews, none of this would have happened.

Although the so called Palestinians had never been taken seriously as a people by the Arab world until after the 1967 war, Israel had offered to recognize a Palestinian state comprising 93% of the West Bank, all of Gaza, joint jurisdiction over Jerusalem and an overpass under the control of the Palestinians connecting Gaza to the West Bank but the Arabs responded with the second intifada and when Sharon withdrew from Gaza in 2005 in an effort to get the Palestinians to reconsider the offer, the Palestinians responded by launching attacks on Israel that have led to the present war.

None of this would have happened if the Arabs had been willing to live in peace with the Jews.

Only a mind as grotesquely warped by hatred and bigotry as yours would compare this history to what happened to native Americans in the US.

 

[Coyote]

The Muslims have a long history of destroying and or appropriating other religion’s holy places. The Hagia Sophia is a prime example. It was built as the most impressive cathedral in Christendom, then the Muslims defaces all the Christian religious components and converted it to a mosque.

Christians have that same history as well.

 

[toomuchtime_]

They don’t trust the Israelis and the Israelis don’t trust them. It is impasse. They are neither stupid nor evil.

Bullshit. Hatred of Jews and Muslims' right to persecute and humiliate Jews has been a core value of Muslim culture, law and religion since the beginning of Islamic civilization and was still the law in the Ottoman empire when the first Zionists arrived after WWI.

"From the early years of Islamic civilization, Muslim jurists, basing on Qur’anic directives, devised an elaborate hierarchy in which monotheistic non-Muslims, such as Christians and Jews, would be “protected” at a low level and tolerated as second-class citizens. Guidelines for their treatment were embodied in the “Pact of ‘Umar.” Limitations on the status of non-Muslims included discriminatory clothing regulations and occupational restrictions. Non-Muslims were required to pay a poll tax (jizya) as well as discriminatory taxes on agricultural produce."

“Ornament of the World” and the Jews of Spain

At times tolerant, at other times intensely intolerant, Spain’s intergroup relations formed a fragile coexistence of Muslims, Christians, and Jews. Although often tenuous, the coexistence of diverse languages, peoples, and religions produced an extraordinary symbiosis and distinctive...

www.neh.gov

For well over a thousand years, every Muslim child was raised to hate Jews, to believe he or she was superior to any Jews and to believe Muslims had the right to persecute and humiliate Jews. That is the reason the Zionists who arrived after WWI were met by such ferocious hostility and why the Arabs still refuse to live in peace with Jews.

 

[Shusha]

They are neither stupid nor evil.

I don't think the language of "stupid" or "evil" is helpful to the conversation, but its hard to argue with the reality that the Arab Palestinians sure don't seem to be capable of creating a viable state.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

I don’t see how that erases anyone. If anything, the post I was responding was erasing people who had deep ties to the land but were not Jewish, or the Bedouin who are also indigenous.

They have a HUGE area to call home. But they will never be satisfied until Israel cease to exist

 

[Carl in Michigan]

How any Westerner can support this is a mystery to me. If you do you are equally evil

 

[AZrailwhale]

Christians have that same history as well.

Show me examples after Roman times.

 

[LuckyDuck01!]

The Jews were there first. They've always had a presence there. They were driven out as a nation by the Roman Empire. Arab squatters moved into ISRAELS LAND. Now Israel is coming home

The clear case of an example of western expansion can be seen in Islam's constant attempts to conquer the west and everywhere else for that matter.

 

[USAF 2023]

The Israeli's don't want peace.
In fact, they never have.
Israel has never declared a fixed border.
Because their goal is to slowly ethnically cleanse all the Arabs from the region and establish a Greater Israel.

They could’ve had this date in the 1980s. Nothing was stopping them. They have made it very clear. They will not recognize real as a Jewish state. Please tell us what the Palestinian as there state they made it very clear. They also want Israel, which is not happening.

 

[Stryder50]

September 9, 1993. Letters of Mutual Recognition. Yasser Arafat, Chairman, PLO

Which appears to be a very minority opinion and policy.

Hence the "from the River to the Sea" ~ Israel and the Jews will no longer be.

 

[Coyote]

I don't think the language of "stupid" or "evil" is helpful to the conversation, but its hard to argue with the reality that the Arab Palestinians sure don't seem to be capable of creating a viable state.

I don’t think it is as simplistic as that. I think issues stem from cultural attributes that prefer violent resistance and have prevented forming a cohesive national identity that can govern AND Israeli actions that have done the same. Where I do agree is the Palestinians need to move towards governance over violence but how and to what end?

 

[Coyote]

They could’ve had this date in the 1980s. Nothing was stopping them. They have made it very clear. They will not recognize real as a Jewish state. Please tell us what the Palestinian as there state they made it very clear. They also want Israel, which is not happening.

They have been willing to recognize Israel multiple times as part of a deal.

 

[Coyote]

Because the Syrians had been using them to shell Israeli civilians for decades AND Syria attacked Israel. Losing territory is often the result of a defeat in a war.

It is also against international law.

 

[sparky]

Christians have that same history as well.

Show me a theocracy that hasn't imparted death and destruction thru this rock's history Coyote

~S~