Is it Possible for Israel and Palestine to Peacefully Coexist?

[ShahdagMountains]

1) How can we trust what the people of Gaza want? The majority were in full support of the Oct 7th massacre of innocent Jews, and have been indoctrinated since toddlerhood to see killing Jews as an admirable goal.

2) As you mention, the Gazans have shown themselves incapable of self-governance. They need the Jews to supply such basics as water and electricity since they can’t seem to provide it for themselves.

The only two options I see are:

1) Condition foreign aid to Egypt on their accepting in their fellow Arabs. I realize nobody wants these hateful people, but wouldn’t it make more sense for an Arab country to take them in?

2) They remain in Gaza, but with a strong Israeli presence - with military near the border.

One of the most striking things in the aftermath of 7 October was the silence of the fascism-spotters. You know these people. They’re the centrists and liberals who see fascism everywhere. Who think everything is ‘like the 1930s’. The vote for Brexit, Donald Trump, the rise of populist parties in Europe – all of it reminds them of the Nazi years. And yet when the Islamofascists of Hamas stormed the Jewish State and butchered a thousand Jews, suddenly they went quiet. No more Nazi talk. No more trembling warnings of a return to ‘the dark days of the 1930s’. No more handwringing over ‘new Hitlers’. It seems that to a certain kind of liberal, everything is fascism except fascism.

It is fine, it seems, to ponder on ‘the reich stuff ’ of Trumpism and Brexit. But it is terrible – ‘dangerous’, in fact – for the Jewish State to say the Jew-killers who invaded its lands on 7 October echoed the evils of Nazi Germany. Do Guardianistas not think that Hamas has ‘the reich stuff’? That this movement whose founding charter promised to ‘fight Jews and kill them’ is at least a little Hitlerish? What about the pogromist who took a break from his no doubt exhausting barbarism on 7 October to phone home and boast to his parents that he had ‘killed 10 [Jews] with my own hands’? Would they call him a ‘Hitler pig’, as they no doubt enjoy hearing Biden staffers say about Trump?

The moral fallout from the 7 October pogrom shines an unforgiving light on our crisis of Enlightenment values. Objectivity, in this case the objective truth of the Holocaust, is overridden by the subjective needs and desires of the activist class. Historical truth is sacrificed to ideological gain. Reason and reality are trampled in the rush of identity groups to consolidate their victim status. And our right to remember what really happened in the past is interfered with by ideologues who manipulate the events of history to suit their political agendas in the present. Such Orwellian meddling with the truth of the Holocaust is an insult not only to the victims of that calamity, but also to the freedom of living people today. As Milan Kundera put it in The Book of Laughter and Forgetting, ‘The struggle of man against power is the struggle of memory against forgetting’. Let remembering the Holocaust be our small rebellion against the new anti-Semitism.

Read all of it. It’s long,​

Holocaust envy

Why the anti-Israel crowd are attacking Jews with their own history.

www.spiked-online.com

 

[ESay]

When the Arabs tried to destroy the Jewish State, they gave the Jews the right to conquer all of Palestine and turn it into Israel. That is what they did.

They weren't asked. The land was divided by colonial powers. For them, they tried to defend their land.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

It sounds like you think Israel’s objective should be the complete destruction of Gaza and it’s people, something Israel is well on its way too. Over 80% of Gaza’s structures are destroyed or damaged. Thousands of children orphaned and maimed. Over 47,000 dead, most of whom are women and children. Hundreds of bodies uncovered in tbe rubble as people return looking for family members. If military campaign has not irradicated Hamas by now it won’t. It is time to explore approaches or it truly begins to look like genocide.

Has Gaza returned the Hostages?

 

[gipper]

Has Gaza returned the Hostages?

Gaza?

 

[JoeB131]

Do we need more than 76?

You kind of do to effectively bomb a country conventionally, um, yeah.


Oh, Iran has some fairly impressive Air Defense systems.

List of equipment of the Islamic Republic of Iran Air Defense Force - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Hector12]

They weren't asked. The land was divided by colonial powers. For them, they tried to defend their land.

It is not their land any more.

 

[Shusha]

It seems that I really should to post a map.

View attachment 1073589

The orange part was supposed to be the Jewish state (Israel). The green part was supposed to be the Arab state. And yes, it was in 1947, by bad.

No. UNGA Resolutions are not binding and this one was never implemented. Try again.

 

[Shusha]

Good luck with that. But don't get surprised why this stance doesn't look so appealing for others.

Exactly. Now apply that same thinking to the Arab Muslims. It is the Arab Muslims who insist that only they have rights to the Temple Mount.

The Jewish people and Israel, as I have demonstrated again and again, are perfectly capable of allowing each religious faith to govern its own holy sites and to share those that, for whatever reason, need to be shared.

Yet you continue to see the Jewish people as the ones in the wrong.

 

[Lisa558]

Exactly. Now apply that same thinking to the Arab Muslims. It is the Arab Muslims who insist that only they have rights to the Temple Mount.

The Jewish people and Israel, as I have demonstrated again and again, are perfectly capable of allowing each religious faith to govern its own holy sites and to share those that, for whatever reason, need to be shared.

Yet you continue to see the Jewish people as the ones in the wrong.

Antisemites tend to do that.

 

[Shusha]

They weren't asked. The land was divided by colonial powers. For them, they tried to defend their land.

That is not how self-determination works. The Arabs don't get a voice in denying another peoples their right to self-determination.

 

[ESay]

No. UNGA Resolutions are not binding and this one was never implemented. Try again.

No, thanks. You can tell, or just let this roll. Nothing concerning Israel-Palestine issue was implemented, including the UNSC resolutions, that are binding.

 

[ESay]

Exactly. Now apply that same thinking to the Arab Muslims. It is the Arab Muslims who insist that only they have rights to the Temple Mount.

The Jewish people and Israel, as I have demonstrated again and again, are perfectly capable of allowing each religious faith to govern its own holy sites and to share those that, for whatever reason, need to be shared.

Yet you continue to see the Jewish people as the ones in the wrong.

This site belongs to Muslims now, and they have every right to use it as they want. If some people in Israel want to change that using the force (there will be no other option) - I am more than fine with that. They can fight for the sand and holy sites for eternity, if they wish.

 

[ESay]

That is not how self-determination works. The Arabs don't get a voice in denying another peoples their right to self-determination.

Self-determination is a good thing when it is a useful tool for achieving the goals, and quickly forgotten about if it is a liability. Will Israel allow Israeli Arabs the right on self-determination?

 

[Lisa558]

No, thanks. You can tell, or just let this roll. Nothing concerning Israel-Palestine issue was implemented, including the UNSC resolutions, that are binding.

The U.N.?

 

[Lisa558]

Self-determination is a good thing when it is a useful tool for achieving the goals, and quickly forgotten about if it is a liability. Will Israel allow Israeli Arabs the right on self-determination?

That question was asked when Israel offered the “Palestinians” their own land. Their answer was that they would not allow the Jews the right to self-determination.

Your bias against Jews is distorting your interpretation of things.

 

[Shusha]

No, thanks. You can tell, or just let this roll. Nothing concerning Israel-Palestine issue was implemented, including the UNSC resolutions, that are binding.

Well, we were discussing whether or not Israel has expanded since 1948, following your assertion that Israel has an desire for "ever-expanding". Israel did not expand when she was invaded by the Arab armies in 1948. Israel got smaller. Israel did not expand in 1967, she recovered territory which was taken from her by belligerent states. Israel has not expanded beyond her own borders, with the exception of a small piece of territory from Syria as a security measure after an invasion.

So the accusation that Israel is "ever-expanding" is false.

 

[Shusha]

Self-determination is a good thing when it is a useful tool for achieving the goals, and quickly forgotten about if it is a liability. Will Israel allow Israeli Arabs the right on self-determination?

Are Israeli Arabs seeking self-determination in the form of a new state separate from the wanna-be Arab Palestinian state?

 

[ESay]

That question was asked when Israel offered the “Palestinians” their own land. Their answer was that they would not allow the Jews the right to self-determination.

Your bias against Jews is distorting your interpretation of things.

Israel wasn't going to offer the Arabs nothing. Ben-Gurion never tried to hide that any partition plan is only a first step to taking control of all the land.

 

[Lisa558]

Israel wasn't going to offer the Arabs nothing. Ben-Gurion never tried to hide that any partition plan is only a first step to taking control of all the land.

Nope, you’re wrong. The Arabs were offered 95% of what they wanted but it was contingent upon accepting Israel’s right to exist. The antisemites refused.

You really need to get your information from something other than the U.N. or anti-Israel sources.

 

[task0778]

The Palestinians do not recognize Israel's right to exist. I doubt that they ever will. And until they accept Israel as a neighbor, they cannot coexist.