Is it possible for atheism to ever be anything more than critical theory?

[WinterBorn]

When was the entropy of the universe zero?

Was it ever?

Yes.

When? And how do you know?

Because I understand science.

When space and time were created from nothing. Before it began to expand and cool.

In fact, the atoms in your body were present when the universe was perfectly ordered. Since that time they have only changed form. I bet you didn’t know that.

Of course I knew that.

How do you know space and time were created from nothing?

 

[WinterBorn]

Why worry about people who don't believe that a supreme being exists? Why worry that there are some people who simply do not know? Why worry about people who think that more than one god/goddess exists?

Nobody is keeping you from your thoughts.

Yeah I dont get Dings perpetual assault on people who don't share his belief in fairy tales.

Personally I don't care what fairy tales he believes in- but he sure takes exception to my not joining his little club.

He has spent untold pages arguing that, despite the fact I do not believe in any god, the fact that I believe in the incorporeal means I am not an atheist. And he has floundered around, misquoted me, and even lied about what I said trying to prove it. lol

 

[Syriusly]

Nope, the very FACT that the universe exists proves it is probable for the universe to exist. Only a pure idiot would argue that the very existence of the universe proves it shouldn't exist.

More fallacious, circular thinking and ad hominems, edthecynic . Just more wrongness and idiocy from you.

Does the "fact" that a car exists mean that it is probable for another car to exist? No. It could be the very first car. How did it come to be? Once you figure out what it does and how it works, you'd think it was designed and created by someone. You'd find out it was made of metal, glass, leather, etc. and someone made these parts. Hawking thought this could not be, so had to make up something else by looking into the parts even more and figured out it was made of tiny particles that the eye couldn't see. He couldn't believe someone invisible could have made it, so thought under certain conditions these invisible particles could form into the parts and eventually the car. He thought people would not believe him so he said the car exists when it shouldn't exist.

The very fact that something exists belies the claim that it shouldn't exist. DUH!

You're assuming the facts. Then God exists and atheists end up going to Gehenna.

prove the existence of God and Gehenna.

You are not reading and understanding. There is no proof, just evidence. Proof isn't just to convince one person, but all non-believers. In order to convince "all" non-believers, i.e. 100% consensus, the only way I know how to do that is through pain and suffering. And in the Bible, this is what's written about Gehenna and what happens to non-believers in the afterlife. One needs faith to believe in God, the supernatural (Genesis only) and the Bible.

If we do not assume something just popped into existence from tiny, tiny particles that we can't see under special conditions, then something had to cause it to happen. This is what Hawking could not explain. He could not explain why it happened. He could only explain how it happened, but not everyone agreed with him because it does not happen with larger invisible particles. Thus, he ended up saying that the universe, everything in it and us exist, but it should not exist. There had to be a cause and it had to overcome the physics of how larger particles act. This is the evidence for God.

Except there is no evidence of any 'god'.

The Bible is only evidence of a religion- not of the origin of the universe or the creation of man- any more than the Vedas are proof of the origin or the Universe.

We don't have to explain the origin of the Universe to see that there is no evidence of any supernatural beings that Christians or Jews or Buddhists or Muslems believe in.

 

[Syriusly]

Why worry about people who don't believe that a supreme being exists? Why worry that there are some people who simply do not know? Why worry about people who think that more than one god/goddess exists?

Nobody is keeping you from your thoughts.

Yeah I dont get Dings perpetual assault on people who don't share his belief in fairy tales.

Personally I don't care what fairy tales he believes in- but he sure takes exception to my not joining his little club.

He has spent untold pages arguing that, despite the fact I do not believe in any god, the fact that I believe in the incorporeal means I am not an atheist. And he has floundered around, misquoted me, and even lied about what I said trying to prove it. lol

Oh I have been down this road with Ding before.

He perpetually tells me that I believe in something different than what I have stated.

What I don't get is his obsession with attacking atheists when we just refuse to join his club.

 

[ding]

When was the entropy of the universe zero?

Was it ever?

Yes.

When? And how do you know?

Because I understand science.

When space and time were created from nothing. Before it began to expand and cool.

In fact, the atoms in your body were present when the universe was perfectly ordered. Since that time they have only changed form. I bet you didn’t know that.

Of course I knew that.

How do you know space and time were created from nothing?

I doubt you did. You didn’t even know when the universe had zero entropy.

Red shift, cosmic background radiation, Friedmann’s solutions to Einstein’s field equations, SLoT, FLoT, quantum mechanics and inflation theory.

 

[WinterBorn]

Was it ever?

Yes.

When? And how do you know?

Because I understand science.

When space and time were created from nothing. Before it began to expand and cool.

In fact, the atoms in your body were present when the universe was perfectly ordered. Since that time they have only changed form. I bet you didn’t know that.

Of course I knew that.

How do you know space and time were created from nothing?

I doubt you did. You didn’t even know when the universe had zero entropy.

Red shift, cosmic background radiation, Friedmann’s solutions to Einstein’s field equations, SLoT, FLoT, quantum mechanics and inflation theory.

Sorry to disappoint you. I have a degree in Secondary Ed/Comprehensive Sciences.

 

[ding]

Yes.

When? And how do you know?

Because I understand science.

When space and time were created from nothing. Before it began to expand and cool.

In fact, the atoms in your body were present when the universe was perfectly ordered. Since that time they have only changed form. I bet you didn’t know that.

Of course I knew that.

How do you know space and time were created from nothing?

I doubt you did. You didn’t even know when the universe had zero entropy.

Red shift, cosmic background radiation, Friedmann’s solutions to Einstein’s field equations, SLoT, FLoT, quantum mechanics and inflation theory.

Sorry to disappoint you. I have a degree in Secondary Ed/Comprehensive Sciences.

And did not know the universe was perfectly ordered before it began to expand and cool, right?

 

[Syriusly]

When? And how do you know?

Because I understand science.

When space and time were created from nothing. Before it began to expand and cool.

In fact, the atoms in your body were present when the universe was perfectly ordered. Since that time they have only changed form. I bet you didn’t know that.

Of course I knew that.

How do you know space and time were created from nothing?

I doubt you did. You didn’t even know when the universe had zero entropy.

Red shift, cosmic background radiation, Friedmann’s solutions to Einstein’s field equations, SLoT, FLoT, quantum mechanics and inflation theory.

Sorry to disappoint you. I have a degree in Secondary Ed/Comprehensive Sciences.

And did not know the universe was perfectly ordered before it began to expand and cool, right?

What is really, really amusing is that both religion and atheism existed before modern science.

You don't need to know about red shift to believe in your tales about a fairy in the sky who controls everything.

You don't need to know about red shift to not believe about a fairy in the sky.

But what we don't know is what your obsession with atheists is all about.
What is it about atheists that intrude into your religion fantasy world?

 

[Karl Rand]

What is really, really amusing is that both religion and atheism existed before modern science.

You don't need to know about red shift to believe in your tales about a fairy in the sky who controls everything.

You don't need to know about red shift to not believe about a fairy in the sky.

But what we don't know is what your obsession with atheists is all about.
What is it about atheists that intrude into your religion fantasy world?

It could be an evangelical delusion many believers have they’re morally obliged to save souls.
On the other hand, as with so many believers, they imagine evangelising is will add to their score when they confront St Peter at the pearly gates.

 

[Syriusly]

What is really, really amusing is that both religion and atheism existed before modern science.

You don't need to know about red shift to believe in your tales about a fairy in the sky who controls everything.

You don't need to know about red shift to not believe about a fairy in the sky.

But what we don't know is what your obsession with atheists is all about.
What is it about atheists that intrude into your religion fantasy world?

It could be an evangelical delusion many believers have they’re morally obliged to save souls.
On the other hand, as with so many believers, they imagine evangelising is will add to their score when they confront St Peter at the pearly gates.

I am just relieved that I don't have stamp collectors as upset with me because I don't choose to collect stamps.....

 

[ding]

Because I understand science.

When space and time were created from nothing. Before it began to expand and cool.

In fact, the atoms in your body were present when the universe was perfectly ordered. Since that time they have only changed form. I bet you didn’t know that.

Of course I knew that.

How do you know space and time were created from nothing?

I doubt you did. You didn’t even know when the universe had zero entropy.

Red shift, cosmic background radiation, Friedmann’s solutions to Einstein’s field equations, SLoT, FLoT, quantum mechanics and inflation theory.

Sorry to disappoint you. I have a degree in Secondary Ed/Comprehensive Sciences.

And did not know the universe was perfectly ordered before it began to expand and cool, right?

What is really, really amusing is that both religion and atheism existed before modern science.

You don't need to know about red shift to believe in your tales about a fairy in the sky who controls everything.

You don't need to know about red shift to not believe about a fairy in the sky.

But what we don't know is what your obsession with atheists is all about.
What is it about atheists that intrude into your religion fantasy world?

That they seek to subordinate religion.

You are free to pursue pleasure, fame, fortune, and power but the reality is that none of those things will satisfy you because you were made for more.

The fact that atheists believe in the middle ground is proof of that. They are literally repulsed by the logical conclusion of materialism because they were made for more.

 

[WinterBorn]

Of course I knew that.

How do you know space and time were created from nothing?

I doubt you did. You didn’t even know when the universe had zero entropy.

Red shift, cosmic background radiation, Friedmann’s solutions to Einstein’s field equations, SLoT, FLoT, quantum mechanics and inflation theory.

Sorry to disappoint you. I have a degree in Secondary Ed/Comprehensive Sciences.

And did not know the universe was perfectly ordered before it began to expand and cool, right?

What is really, really amusing is that both religion and atheism existed before modern science.

You don't need to know about red shift to believe in your tales about a fairy in the sky who controls everything.

You don't need to know about red shift to not believe about a fairy in the sky.

But what we don't know is what your obsession with atheists is all about.
What is it about atheists that intrude into your religion fantasy world?

That they seek to subordinate religion.

You are free to pursue pleasure, fame, fortune, and power but the reality is that none of those things will satisfy you because you were made for more.

The fact that atheists believe in the middle ground is proof of that. They are literally repulsed by the logical conclusion of materialism because they were made for more.

And you are bravely trying to save the world be defeating atheism?

 

[ding]

I doubt you did. You didn’t even know when the universe had zero entropy.

Red shift, cosmic background radiation, Friedmann’s solutions to Einstein’s field equations, SLoT, FLoT, quantum mechanics and inflation theory.

Sorry to disappoint you. I have a degree in Secondary Ed/Comprehensive Sciences.

And did not know the universe was perfectly ordered before it began to expand and cool, right?

What is really, really amusing is that both religion and atheism existed before modern science.

You don't need to know about red shift to believe in your tales about a fairy in the sky who controls everything.

You don't need to know about red shift to not believe about a fairy in the sky.

But what we don't know is what your obsession with atheists is all about.
What is it about atheists that intrude into your religion fantasy world?

That they seek to subordinate religion.

You are free to pursue pleasure, fame, fortune, and power but the reality is that none of those things will satisfy you because you were made for more.

The fact that atheists believe in the middle ground is proof of that. They are literally repulsed by the logical conclusion of materialism because they were made for more.

And you are bravely trying to save the world be defeating atheism?

Not at all. Everything will work itself out. I am just participating in the conflict and confusion process. That’s how objective truth is discovered.

 

[WinterBorn]

Sorry to disappoint you. I have a degree in Secondary Ed/Comprehensive Sciences.

And did not know the universe was perfectly ordered before it began to expand and cool, right?

What is really, really amusing is that both religion and atheism existed before modern science.

You don't need to know about red shift to believe in your tales about a fairy in the sky who controls everything.

You don't need to know about red shift to not believe about a fairy in the sky.

But what we don't know is what your obsession with atheists is all about.
What is it about atheists that intrude into your religion fantasy world?

That they seek to subordinate religion.

You are free to pursue pleasure, fame, fortune, and power but the reality is that none of those things will satisfy you because you were made for more.

The fact that atheists believe in the middle ground is proof of that. They are literally repulsed by the logical conclusion of materialism because they were made for more.

And you are bravely trying to save the world be defeating atheism?

Not at all. Everything will work itself out. I am just participating in the conflict and confusion process. That’s how objective truth is discovered.

I agree that you are seeking conflict. But the confusion is mostly with you, I think.

 

[ding]

"When all is said and done, we are in the end absolutely dependent on the universe; and into sacrifices and surrenders of some sort, deliberately looked at and accepted, we are drawn and pressed as into our only permanent positions of repose. Now in those states of mind which fall short of religion, the surrender is submitted to as an imposition of necessity, and the sacrifice is undergone at the very best without complaint. In the religious life, on the contrary, surrender and sacrifice are positively espoused: even unnecessary givings-up are added in order that the happiness may increase. Religion thus makes easy and felicitous what in any case is necessary; and if it be the only agency that can accomplish this result, its vital importance as a human faculty stands vindicated beyond dispute. It becomes an essential organ of our life, performing a function which no other portion of our nature can so successfully fulfill." William James

 

[WinterBorn]

"When all is said and done, we are in the end absolutely dependent on the universe; and into sacrifices and surrenders of some sort, deliberately looked at and accepted, we are drawn and pressed as into our only permanent positions of repose. Now in those states of mind which fall short of religion, the surrender is submitted to as an imposition of necessity, and the sacrifice is undergone at the very best without complaint. In the religious life, on the contrary, surrender and sacrifice are positively espoused: even unnecessary givings-up are added in order that the happiness may increase. Religion thus makes easy and felicitous what in any case is necessary; and if it be the only agency that can accomplish this result, its vital importance as a human faculty stands vindicated beyond dispute. It becomes an essential organ of our life, performing a function which no other portion of our nature can so successfully fulfill." William James

I disagree with Mr. James. Specifically in his statement "Now in those states of mind which fall short of religion, the surrender is submitted to as an imposition of necessity, and the sacrifice is undergone at the very best without complaint.". I do not think most atheists see it as an imposition. In fact, they accept it as the way of the universe without trying to superimpose some mythical figure's will on it.

 

[ding]

"When all is said and done, we are in the end absolutely dependent on the universe; and into sacrifices and surrenders of some sort, deliberately looked at and accepted, we are drawn and pressed as into our only permanent positions of repose. Now in those states of mind which fall short of religion, the surrender is submitted to as an imposition of necessity, and the sacrifice is undergone at the very best without complaint. In the religious life, on the contrary, surrender and sacrifice are positively espoused: even unnecessary givings-up are added in order that the happiness may increase. Religion thus makes easy and felicitous what in any case is necessary; and if it be the only agency that can accomplish this result, its vital importance as a human faculty stands vindicated beyond dispute. It becomes an essential organ of our life, performing a function which no other portion of our nature can so successfully fulfill." William James

I disagree with Mr. James. Specifically in his statement "Now in those states of mind which fall short of religion, the surrender is submitted to as an imposition of necessity, and the sacrifice is undergone at the very best without complaint.". I do not think most atheists see it as an imposition. In fact, they accept it as the way of the universe without trying to superimpose some mythical figure's will on it.

You mean like your lifeforce?

 

[WinterBorn]

"When all is said and done, we are in the end absolutely dependent on the universe; and into sacrifices and surrenders of some sort, deliberately looked at and accepted, we are drawn and pressed as into our only permanent positions of repose. Now in those states of mind which fall short of religion, the surrender is submitted to as an imposition of necessity, and the sacrifice is undergone at the very best without complaint. In the religious life, on the contrary, surrender and sacrifice are positively espoused: even unnecessary givings-up are added in order that the happiness may increase. Religion thus makes easy and felicitous what in any case is necessary; and if it be the only agency that can accomplish this result, its vital importance as a human faculty stands vindicated beyond dispute. It becomes an essential organ of our life, performing a function which no other portion of our nature can so successfully fulfill." William James

I disagree with Mr. James. Specifically in his statement "Now in those states of mind which fall short of religion, the surrender is submitted to as an imposition of necessity, and the sacrifice is undergone at the very best without complaint.". I do not think most atheists see it as an imposition. In fact, they accept it as the way of the universe without trying to superimpose some mythical figure's will on it.

You mean like your lifeforce?

I mean like incorporeal things.

 

[ding]

We crave and cling to impermanent states and things which are incapable of satisfying us.

 

[WinterBorn]

We crave and cling to impermanent states and things which are incapable of satisfying us.

We do? Speak for yourself.