Is it fair to have pit bulls around other people?

[Ravi]

Google

Funny, nine returns and none of them are actually about Irish Wolfhounds attacking.

 

[Anguille]

Cows killed over 3 times as many people as pit bulls did in 2008.

Link?

Dangerous Cows - TierneyLab Blog - NYTimes.com

"The image of cows as placid, gentle creatures is a city slicker’s fantasy, judging from an article published on Friday by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, which reports that about 20 people a year are killed by cows in the United States. In some cases, the cows actually attack humans—ramming them, knocking them down, goring them, trampling them and kicking them in the head—resulting in fatal injuries to the head and chest.
Mother cows, like other animals, can be fiercely protective of their young, and dairy bulls, the report notes, are “especially possessive of their herd and occasionally disrupt feeding, cleaning, and milking routines.”
The article, in the Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, discusses 21 cases in which people were killed by cattle from 2003 to 2007 in Iowa, Kansas, Missouri and Nebraska.
In 16 cases, “the animal was deemed to have purposefully struck the victim,” the report states. In 5 other cases, people were crushed against walls or by gates shoved by the cattle. Ten of the attacks were by bulls, 6 by cows and 5 by “multiple cattle.” A third of the deaths were caused by animals that had been aggressive in the past.
All but one of the victims died from head or chest injuries; the last died after a cow knocked him down and a syringe in his pocket injected him with an antibiotic meant for the cow. In at least one case the animal attacked from behind, when the person wasn’t looking. Older men with arthritis and hearing aids have the highest risk of being injured by livestock, the report says, probably because they don’t hear the animals charging and can’t move fast enough to get out of the way."


Pit bulls killed something like 5 people. I think Coyote gave the number in one of her previous posts.


Moo!!

 

[Coyote]

Still doesn't compare with the jaw strength of a pit bull.

Why do you think all dog fighting dogs are pits? Because they'd rip the throat out of a retreiver in new york minute, that's why.

Just because a dog like a pitbull can inflict a seriously damaging bite does not diminish the damage any large powerful breed of dog can do when it bites.

Do a bit of research before you make statements like "all fighting dogs are pits". There are a number of breeds bred for fighting and bred for attacking and killing things. Many terriers fall into that category and, there are many pits who's heritage is far removed from fighting and are quite sociable with other dogs.

Tell me again how many of Vick's dogs weren't pit bulls?


Oh yeah, none.

You mean Vick's the only dog fighter in the biz? Hallelujah - we may have finally solved the problem of dogfighting

 

[Anguille]

The vast number "pitbulls" are bred primarily as pets and have been for many generations (a look at old pictures will show you that the pit was a popular family dog)

 

[Coyote]

I saw a special about dog breeding a little while ago that was pretty interesting. Nothing specific about pit bulls, it was mostly about drug and bomb sniffing dogs. Basically what they said is that the canine genetic code is unique in the animal kingdom in how easily manipulated it is. It only takes 2 or 3 generations to geneticaly engineer pretty much exactly what you're looking for.

Yet there are still those who insist that breeding doesn't matter.

I saw that too and it was fascinating! I also remember reading something about an experiment to create boxers with natural bob tails and they crossed in a corgi, selectively bred back to boxers for several generations and finally got a bobtailed dog that was indistiinguishable from a "purebred" boxer.

But...that's the physical morphology of the animal, are temperment traits (or working ability) as easily manipulated and as quickly?

 

[Anguille]

I think this thread is about making some breeds illegal.
Pandering to those with phobias about certain breeds.

I don't support making any breeds illegal.

But I am for example, open to the idea of a mandatory muzzling law for any dog rescued from a dog fighting operation, regardless of the breed.

If you made a mandatory muzzling law - it should be for any breed of dog over a certain size. Bad temperment and reactivity don't necessarily stem from fighting. Italy (I think) has such a law for dogs out in public places - which makes sense.

However - the other side of it is most dog bite incidents occur in the owners home or property, and is a family member so muzzling wouldn't make a difference - you can't keep a muzzle on long term.

Italy does have such a law. People get around it though, by letting the muzzle hand off the collar because the law does not specify how a dog must wear the muzle, only that it must be wearing one.

Good point about most most dog bites occuring on private property so muzzle laws aren't useful there.

 

[manifold]

Yes, muzzle laws are useless at home and that's fine by me.

If you want to assume the risk in your own home, have at it.

 

[Coyote]

I don't support making any breeds illegal.

But I am for example, open to the idea of a mandatory muzzling law for any dog rescued from a dog fighting operation, regardless of the breed.

If you made a mandatory muzzling law - it should be for any breed of dog over a certain size. Bad temperment and reactivity don't necessarily stem from fighting. Italy (I think) has such a law for dogs out in public places - which makes sense.

However - the other side of it is most dog bite incidents occur in the owners home or property, and is a family member so muzzling wouldn't make a difference - you can't keep a muzzle on long term.

Italy does have such a law. People get around it though, by letting the muzzle hand off the collar because the law does not specify how a dog must wear the muzle, only that it must be wearing one.

Good point about most most dog bites occuring on private property so muzzle laws aren't useful there.

Ah, so it's a law that's not really very effective then. It's a complicated issue unfortunately

 

[Coyote]

Cows killed over 3 times as many people as pit bulls did in 2008.

Link?

Dangerous Cows - TierneyLab Blog - NYTimes.com

"The image of cows as placid, gentle creatures is a city slicker’s fantasy, judging from an article published on Friday by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, which reports that about 20 people a year are killed by cows in the United States. In some cases, the cows actually attack humans—ramming them, knocking them down, goring them, trampling them and kicking them in the head—resulting in fatal injuries to the head and chest.
Mother cows, like other animals, can be fiercely protective of their young, and dairy bulls, the report notes, are “especially possessive of their herd and occasionally disrupt feeding, cleaning, and milking routines.”
The article, in the Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, discusses 21 cases in which people were killed by cattle from 2003 to 2007 in Iowa, Kansas, Missouri and Nebraska.
In 16 cases, “the animal was deemed to have purposefully struck the victim,” the report states. In 5 other cases, people were crushed against walls or by gates shoved by the cattle. Ten of the attacks were by bulls, 6 by cows and 5 by “multiple cattle.” A third of the deaths were caused by animals that had been aggressive in the past.
All but one of the victims died from head or chest injuries; the last died after a cow knocked him down and a syringe in his pocket injected him with an antibiotic meant for the cow. In at least one case the animal attacked from behind, when the person wasn’t looking. Older men with arthritis and hearing aids have the highest risk of being injured by livestock, the report says, probably because they don’t hear the animals charging and can’t move fast enough to get out of the way."


Pit bulls killed something like 5 people. I think Coyote gave the number in one of her previous posts.


Moo!!

Dang bovine badasss!

Time to do something about those cows!

 

[Ravi]

I'm almost positive that it is illegal to have cows out in public.

 

[Coyote]

I'm almost positive that it is illegal to have cows out in public.

But not cars....

 

[Anguille]

If you made a mandatory muzzling law - it should be for any breed of dog over a certain size. Bad temperment and reactivity don't necessarily stem from fighting. Italy (I think) has such a law for dogs out in public places - which makes sense.

However - the other side of it is most dog bite incidents occur in the owners home or property, and is a family member so muzzling wouldn't make a difference - you can't keep a muzzle on long term.

Italy does have such a law. People get around it though, by letting the muzzle hand off the collar because the law does not specify how a dog must wear the muzle, only that it must be wearing one.

Good point about most most dog bites occuring on private property so muzzle laws aren't useful there.

Ah, so it's a law that's not really very effective then. It's a complicated issue unfortunately

No,unless the people whose dogs realy are dangerous still muzzle them properly. I think Italy's law is silly since a muzzle is required of all dogs, regardless of any proven danger and the law is so badly written anyway.
But like I said above, I agree with muzzle laws for dogs that have proven to be a danger when unprovoked.

I also wish that the stigma of having a dog on a muzzle was not so strong. I one time asked this owner of a German Shepherd whose dog is terrified of other dogs and barks and lunges aggressively at them why he doesn't just keep his dog on a muzzle when walking him, for his and everyone's peace of mind. The guy said he didn't want his dog to look like a scary dog.
I have also heard that muzzled dogs are likely to act less aggressive when muzzled, so maybe muzzles could help in rehabing these dogs. I don't know if it's true.

 

[Anguille]

I'm almost positive that it is illegal to have cows out in public.

If that's no so, are you calling for cow banning also?

 

[Anguille]

I'm almost positive that it is illegal to have cows out in public.

But not cars....

Or smokers!!

I wonder who is a worse menace to society?

smokers or pit bulls.

Ravi or Petey, the Lil' Rascal's pet?

 

[Coyote]

I'm almost positive that it is illegal to have cows out in public.

But not cars....

Or smokers!!

I wonder who is a worse menace to society?

smokers or pit bulls.

Ravi or Petey, the Lil' Rascal's pet?

 

[manifold]

I'm almost positive that it is illegal to have cows out in public.

But not cars....

Or smokers!!

I wonder who is a worse menace to society?

smokers or pit bulls.

Ravi or Petey, the Lil' Rascal's pet?

I'd wager a handsome sum that this lovable family pet is a bigger menace than even Ravi.

 

[Anguille]

FIND THE PITBULL​

Only one of the pictures below features the real American PitBull Terrier. Take the test to see if you can find it. To find the breed of a dog, click on image. Note there are no mixes or rescue dogs of unknown background who's breed could be debated. All dogs have been picked from breeders' websites and should be good representatives of their breed.​

When you are done, ask your family and friends to take to test and watch the results. For many people, a Pit Bull is a a big headed dog, or a dog with cropped ears. For some it's a brindle dog, a big, stocky dog, or one with an eye patch. ​

Quite often dogs that attack are identified as pit bulls when they are not. There are 20+ breeds that are commonly incorrectly identified as pit bulls. Visit Understand-a-bull for more information.

Pet Pitbull - Find the Pit Bull

One more reason why breed specific laws are ineffective.

 

[Anguille]

But not cars....

Or smokers!!

I wonder who is a worse menace to society?

smokers or pit bulls.

Ravi or Petey, the Lil' Rascal's pet?

I'd wager a handsome sum that this lovable family pet is a bigger menace than even Ravi.

Whatever kind of dog that is and for whatever reason it was provoked into baring it's fangs, it's only representative of that individual dog.

 

[Anguille]

But we know that ALL tobacco smoke is dangerous.

 

[Coyote]

Italy does have such a law. People get around it though, by letting the muzzle hand off the collar because the law does not specify how a dog must wear the muzle, only that it must be wearing one.

Good point about most most dog bites occuring on private property so muzzle laws aren't useful there.

Ah, so it's a law that's not really very effective then. It's a complicated issue unfortunately

No,unless the people whose dogs realy are dangerous still muzzle them properly. I think Italy's law is silly since a muzzle is required of all dogs, regardless of any proven danger and the law is so badly written anyway.
But like I said above, I agree with muzzle laws for dogs that have proven to be a danger when unprovoked.

I also wish that the stigma of having a dog on a muzzle was not so strong. I one time asked this owner of a German Shepherd whose dog is terrified of other dogs and barks and lunges aggressively at them why he doesn't just keep his dog on a muzzle when walking him, for his and everyone's peace of mind. The guy said he didn't want his dog to look like a scary dog.
I have also heard that muzzled dogs are likely to act less aggressive when muzzled, so maybe muzzles could help in rehabing these dogs. I don't know if it's true.

I know the stigma can be a problem - I've used head-halters on dogs and people think they are muzzles. The advantage is that the owner, knowing there is muzzle or that they have better control over the dog with a halter - will noticably relax, and this relaxation is communicated to the dog - when the owner is all tensed up, the dog reacts to that tension by escalating. I have one dog I will muzzle at some point in working with her and it will be tricky. She isn't a lunger but she doesn't want people reaching for her or touching her. We're trying to get desensitized but, I doubt she will ever be a trustworthy dog and will always have to be carefully managed.