"Is Britain to blame for many of the world's problems?"

[Blagger]

David Cameron has suggested that Britain and the legacy of its empire was responsible for many of the world's historic problems. But is that view fair?

Answering questions from students in Pakistan on Tuesday, the prime minister said: "As with so many of the problems of the world, we are responsible for their creation in the first place."

Two historians offer opposing views:


Nick Lloyd, lecturer in defence studies, King's College London.

Mr Cameron's remarks about the painful legacy of colonialism could not be further from the truth and they reveal a disappointing lack of historical judgment. The British Empire in India, known as the Raj, was the greatest experiment in paternalistic imperial government in history.

By the time the British left India in 1947 they had given the subcontinent a number of priceless assets, including the English language, but also a structure of good government, local organisation and logistical infrastructure that still holds good today. Far from damaging India, British imperial rule gave it a head start.

Andrew Thompson, professor of imperial and global history, University of Leeds.

Does Britain's colonial legacy still poison its relations with Africa, the Middle East and Asia? Mr Cameron's remark raises important questions for society about how we relate to history.

There's the inheritance of colonial violence. What you saw in the later stages of empire was a series of British counter-insurgency operations, exported from one hot spot to another. In places such as Kenya, Palestine, Malaysia, Zimbabwe, and of course Northern Ireland, the British were forced to resort to repressive legal and military measures in what was to prove an ultimately vain attempt to curb the tide of political unrest and nationalist opposition.

Detention without trial, beatings, torture, and killings punctuated the twilight years of colonial rule. The disclosure this week of a large tranche of Foreign Office files, hitherto kept secret about full extent of British brutality against Mau Mau in Kenya, suggests there may be further revelations still to come. Will there be similar stories and claims from Palestine, Malaya, Cyprus or Nigeria?

So, there you have it. Did us resourseful Brits guide our empire forward with a paternal hand firmly, but reassuringly attached to our subjects' shoulder, or did we use our military, econmic and industrial superiority to bully, intimidate and murder our native subjects into subservience?


David Cameron toadying to the natives by betraying the Empire - BBfuckingC


P.s. I'd be most grateful if any of our indignant Jew or fanatical Mohammedan readers, or any other race that we supposedly oppressed, could keep their replies under control. Although I concede that we did give you chaps a bit of a rough time, one must remember that one man's oppression is another man's civilizing.

Oh, and can any replies coming from the Irish quarter please remain objective, not invective.

Thanks for reading, you may now answer.

 

[Sallow]

Yes.

And lousy food as well.

 

[editec]

Empires are double edged swords.

Typically bring good things (like modernization) and bad (like exploitation of the people).

If you look at the world's hot spots you'll note that most of them were formerly Brit colonies.

And if you look at the reamining hots spots most of them were former EURO colonies.

Now the question is would those places not be hotspots had they never been colonialized?

I don't think anybody can say with certainty they would be peaceful, happy pprosperous places had they not been colonies.

AFter all, the reason they fell to become EURO colonies is because their societies and goverments were failing to serve them very well.

And if you look at how most of them fared after they became independent, few of them are doing especially well now, too

Its just too simplictic to BLAME the UK for the world's problems. I'm not at all trying to whitewash the history of the Brit Empire, but I am also suggesting that blaming today's problems for an empire that essantially ceased to exist 70 years ago is also a mistake.

Certainly former empires share some of the blame, and today's American empire isn't helping much, either, but asking these kinds of questions is, I think, a futile exercise.

History is what it is.

Imagining how it might have been otherwise is somewaht pointless except as an intellectual exercise.

 

[Sallow]

Empires are double edged swords.

Typically bring good things (like modernization) and bad (like exploitation of the people).

If you look at the world's hot spots you'll note that most of them were formerly Brit colonies.

And if you look at the reamining hots spots most of them were former EURO colonies.

Now the question is would those places not be hotspots had they never been colonialized?

I don't think anybody can say with certainty they would be peaceful, happy pprosperous places had they not been colonies.

AFter all, the reason they fell to become EURO colonies is because their societies and goverments were failing to serve them very well.
And if you look at how most of them fared after they became independent, few of them are doing especially well now, too

Its just too simplictic to BLAME the UK for the world's problems. I'm not at all trying to whitewash the history of the Brit Empire, but I am also suggesting that blaming today's problems for an empire that essantially ceased to exist 70 years ago is also a mistake.

Certainly former empires share some of the blame, and today's American empire isn't helping much, either, but asking these kinds of questions is, I think, a futile exercise.

History is what it is.

Imagining how it might have been otherwise is somewaht pointless except as an intellectual exercise.

Not necessarily. A country like Japan was never colonized because of geography and luck. Part of the luck stemmed from a recognition that they needed to catch up militarily with Europe..and fast.

 

[LumpyPostage]

Yes.

And lousy food as well.

What about haggis?

 

[Baruch Menachem]

Idiot problems were the source of the empire. the problems were there before the empire. Some of the worst problems were solved under the empire, and the problems that the empire smothered came back after the empire went away, but there was no way a small island could have run that big of an empire without the subject states being so badly messed up before they arrived that they could establish it.

 

[Nosmo King]

There would be fewer problems had the Brits never drawn maps. They created Kuwait out of Iraq. They delineated Jordan, Palestine and Lebanon.

A few lines on paper drawn by British bureaucrats and voilà, cultural, monetary and political problems.

 

[Nosmo King]

Yes.

And lousy food as well.

What about haggis?

That's Scottish, thank you very much. There's a damn good reason you have NEVER seen a Scottish restaurant. Irish gilles, British pubs? Sure! But ne'er Scottish cuisine.

 

[Two Thumbs]

No, not at all.

they were one of many world empires, kingdoms, etc.

All where built by force of arms and mostly kept by force of arms.

pfft, England was "civilised" at the end of a Roman spear.

The ME issues? pfft, somebody had to do something and it wasn't going to be France.

From; "My little book of facts"

In all of recorded history there has been world peace 2% of that time.

war, conflict, thinking we are better than the others cuz our Flag is cooler [and Americas Flag is] is our normal state.

going out of our way to help other countries and people is alein to us, and is often resented.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

YES YES and YES!!! Did i say Yes? Great Britain meddles in every Nations' business all around the World. They interfere and incite everywhere. They still haven't let go of their Colonialist mentality. They really do believe they have the right to tell other nations what's best for them. They do cause many problems around the World. They just can't mind their own business.

Unfortunately my Nation has chosen to follow their lead on Aggressive Foreign Interventionism. Both the U.S. and Britain are the cause of many problems around the World. I just hope i live to see the day when the U.S. ends these awful Foreign Interventionist policies. There is no hope at all for Britain though. They just can't mind their own business. And that's not gonna change.

 

[Anguille]

I don't blame the Brits for anything other than bad English.

 

[Blagger]

YES YES and YES!!! Did i say Yes? Great Britain meddles in every Nations' business all around the World. They interfere and incite everywhere. They still haven't let go of their Colonialist mentality. They really do believe they have the right to tell other nations what's best for them. They do cause many problems around the World. They just can't mind their own business.

Unfortunately my Nation has chosen to follow their lead on Aggressive Foreign Interventionism. Both the U.S. and Britain are the cause of many problems around the World. I just hope i live to see the day when the U.S. ends these awful Foreign Interventionist policies. There is no hope at all for Britain though. They just can't mind their own business. And that's not gonna change.

Libo, as welcome as you are to comment on this thread, I'll kindly ask you to cease regurgitating the same, repetitive reply you submit to any subject that covers the UK's foreign policies. It's getting a tad boring, for everyone.

Apart from that, thank you all so-far for your mostly objective replies. Please keep them coming.

 

[Anguille]

Another thing I blame the Brits for is the Burberry look.

 

[Avatar4321]

No. People are to blame for the world's problems.

If they fixed their own lives instead of always blaming others for their problems, we'd have a much more peaceful world.

 

[Iridescence]

Yes.

And lousy food as well.

What about haggis?

That's Scottish, thank you very much. There's a damn good reason you have NEVER seen a Scottish restaurant. Irish gilles, British pubs? Sure! But ne'er Scottish cuisine.

this is just plainly one of the grossest things I have ever seen without question

Britain 'owned' EVERYTHING it seems... every single piece of land and every single root of origin also seems to have been meddled with by them, but I'm obviously not a history buff.

As for removing lineage, how is that even possible for them to do when truth be told within the bloodline? Name revocations are only emphasized by how we are so effective in mislabeling everything as it is. AND definitions change all the time....

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

You'd think people who almost conquered the world could conquer dental hygiene.

 

[Iridescence]

I completely abhor going to the dentist... even if he's cute!

 

[Dr Grump]

You'd think people who almost conquered the world could conquer dental hygiene.

You mistake 'lack of dental hygiene' with 'we don't visit the orthadondist every five seconds to make our teeth look great'...

 

[Dr Grump]

The Brits were the best European colonisers by a long shot...

 

[Toronado3800]

Four of Britain's main colonial adventures, the United States, Canada, India and Australia are leading forces in the world. Sure especially the United States flexes some muscle, but we are mostly good with it.

As for the rest, the world is probably a better place with British lines in the sand dividing the Muslim nations of the Middle East. Imagine a large unified organized mitant Islamic nation. Gulp.

Them opium wars were rather embarassing. Probably still remembered by the Chinese....

Africa? Ug. Impossible to see how it would have turned out. Did Britain upsurp any promising Democratic powers there? Any promising monarchies?