Is anybody actually fighting the Russian troop in Ukraine?

[ClaireH]

Money? Can you give an example? Land, yes; resources such as oil and tin and diamonds and aluminum, yes; control of the seas and land and power generally, yes ------- but not just money, surely?

Hmmmmm. Interesting question. Maybe the Opium Wars between Britain and China: the Brits were spending so much on China tea (this really happened) that they needed foreign exchange currency with China. Hence the opium, which led to problems, like our fentanyl problem.

Come on Circe! You’re well read enough to know that there is big money in war profiteering! Would you like me to show you a couple of links? It’s pretty common knowledge I’m just surprised it’s missed your attention.

 

[Donald H]

Deeply and sincerely agreed upon.

Let's hope..

Jo

I'm hoping to attract more people to the discussion but it could be that many will feel uncomfortable with the obvious facts for a while.

 

[Donald H]

It's probably quite inevitable that Cold War brinkmanship would arrive at an impossible situation that can't be resolved by conventional arms.

One side or the other will eventually suffer losses that it considers intolerable.

And so the great powers had found the solution to be 'proxy' wars that spared the situation from developing to a critical point.

But now the situation is altered in which there is no proxy fighting for Russia, and Russia could suffer losses that are deemed unacceptable.

If that situation is allowed to develop for Russia or Nato countries, then both sides have the resources to win the war quickly in their favour.

And thus we have the inevitable end result of the brinkmanship game.

May the gods be with us?

 

[M14 Shooter]

Act like a grownup or just butt out and go play gun.
Your silly question will be answered by yourself if you can just follow along with your finger until the light goes on in your brain.

You're not allowed to waffle on the question.
So, I ask again:
Being quite the armchair general yourself -- what do you think that means, and why do you think Putin will take that step?

 

[Donald H]

Money? Can you give an example? Land, yes; resources such as oil and tin and diamonds and aluminum, yes; control of the seas and land and power generally, yes ------- but not just money, surely?

Hmmmmm. Interesting question. Maybe the Opium Wars between Britain and China: the Brits were spending so much on China tea (this really happened) that they needed foreign exchange currency with China. Hence the opium, which led to problems, like our fentanyl problem.

Great point on the opium wars!
A much more elevated discussion is developing on this forum, due to the new war between US/Nato and Russia.

 

[M14 Shooter]

I'm hoping to attract more people to the discussion but it could be that many will feel uncomfortable with the obvious facts for a while.

If the facts you claims are so obvious, why can't you demonstrate them to be true?

 

[Donald H]

You're not allowed to waffle on the question.
So, I ask again:
Being quite the armchair general yourself -- what do you think that means, and why do you think Putin will take that step?

And once again and for the last time:
Your silly question will be answered by yourself if you can just follow along with your finger until the light goes on in your brain

 

[Vastator]

I never though it was a good idea to send anything to Ukraine....especially since they seem to have more corruption per capita in their governmental ranks that even we do and baby THAT IS SAYING SOMETHING.....and yes I criticized Trump for sending them stuff too....it's just stupid.

JO

Corrupt no doubt. But in the political sphere; what are one's choices when being crushed between two giants? You're just trying to stay alive at that point.

 

[Rambunctious]

Yes, regardless of the propaganda, the truth is that the Ukraine didn't want US/Nato interference and didn't want a war with Russia. Zelensky made that pretty clear in the little bit of air time he was allowed.

I think I see some logic in you saying that it's Russia's fight against US/Nato but a little further explanation of your thinking might be helpful.

Suffice to say that Ukraine wanted to keep the status quo of neutrality. The question still remains on which side to blame for not allowing that to continue. Of course my opinion is that the US wouldn't allow that and hence the same basic rules apply as did with the Crimea. America pushed for a bridge too far and lost the bridge. Russia could never allow Crimea to be lost for obvious reasons you'll probably be aware of.

Crimea seems to be no worse for wear to the people outside of the region...many of them living in Crimea are socialist at heart...Ukrainians are more likely to favor something resembling a capitalistic society...So that would explain the fiercer fight that we are seeing today from the people and the Ukrainian military...
You make a good point however....we haven't handled the fall of the wall/iron curtain as good as I hoped....

 

[Rambunctious]

Th
They are fighting for their country.

Finally.....take note that the Ukrainian government had to hand out 10,000 automatic rifles to the citizens this morning...this is one reason why we fight gun grabbing....

 

[M14 Shooter]

And once again and for the last time:
Your silly question will be answered by yourself if you can just follow along with your finger until the light goes on in your brain

Spoken like a true armchair general - all words, no clues.
Thank you for, yet again, demonstrating your inability to meaningfully support your claims or provide a rational basis for same.
You may now tuck tail and run.
As always.

 

[ClaireH]

It's probably quite inevitable that Cold War brinkmanship would arrive at an impossible situation that can't be resolved by conventional arms.

One side or the other will eventually suffer losses that it considers intolerable.

And so the great powers had found the solution to be 'proxy' wars that spared the situation from developing to a critical point.

But now the situation is altered in which there is no proxy fighting for Russia, and Russia could suffer losses that are deemed unacceptable.

If that situation is allowed to develop for Russia or Nato countries, then both sides have the resources to win the war quickly in their favour.

And thus we have the inevitable end result of the brinkmanship game.

May the gods be with us?

Let’s include the full picture, shall we DH? You are not including the full picture.

Putin ‘ready’ for talks with Ukraine in Minsk

 

[Donald H]

Crimea seems to be no worse for wear to the people outside of the region...many of them living in Crimea are socialist at heart...Ukrainians are more likely to favor something resembling a capitalistic society...So that would explain the fiercer fight that we are seeing today from the people and the Ukrainian military...
You make a good point however....we haven't handled the fall of the wall/iron curtain as good as I hoped....

Both the Crimea and the Ukraine prefer socially responsible capitalism. Let's not get diverted into a discussion on the meaning of that.

The reasons why there was no fighting in Crimea is completely distinct from the reasons for this current war in which there is military involvement.

I'm pleased you understand the perils of the end result of a 'Cold' war and how it must inevitably lead to a 'Hot' one. Thus the need for a mutually acceptable draw.

 

[Circe]

Well....look at it this way.... The dollar is no longer based on gold. It's actually based on petroleum now.

I can't give you that one ---- the dollar is not based on gold, true, but it isn't based on any commodity. It's based on our soft power, I guess, and the fact that ours is the reserve currency; which won't last long if Russia and China have to develop their own banking exchanges instead of SWIFT.

Oil is a very important commodity, but so is wheat (bad crops expected from the major wheat-growing nation Ukraine this year ---); it's not the same as money. What are all the new digital currencies based on? Darned if I know. Faith, that's all that really matters, or ever did since money turned into paper.

Besides, Europe direly needs energy autarky, and wind seems likely to be the replacement in Germany, nuclear power in France. Nations are moving out of oil as fast as they can, and no wonder! Green energy: maybe it will work after all.

 

[Donald H]

Let’s include the full picture, shall we DH? You are not including the full picture.

Putin ‘ready’ for talks with Ukraine in Minsk

No, Ukraine ready for talks with Putin, if either is correct. Putin invited talks yesterday and maybe on Wednesday. Zelensky didn't respond.

 

[Circe]

Come on Circe! You’re well read enough to know that there is big money in war profiteering! Would you like me to show you a couple of links? It’s pretty common knowledge I’m just surprised it’s missed your attention.

That old conspiracy theory that war is caused by the arms dealers?

Naaaaaah. They follow war, they don't lead war.

 

[Donald H]

I can't give you that one ---- the dollar is not based on gold, true, but it isn't based on any commodity. It's based on our soft power, I guess, and the fact that ours is the reserve currency; which won't last long if Russia and China have to develop their own banking exchanges instead of SWIFT.

Oil is a very important commodity, but so is wheat (bad crops expected from the major wheat-growing nation Ukraine this year ---); it's not the same as money. What are all the new digital currencies based on? Darned if I know. Faith, that's all that really matters, or ever did since money turned into paper.

Besides, Europe direly needs energy autarky, and wind seems likely to be the replacement in Germany, nuclear power in France. Nations are moving out of oil as fast as they can, and no wonder! Green energy: maybe it will work after all.

The resources of the Ukraine are secondary at this point in time. US/Nato positioning as related to Russia's borders are the main issue.

 

[Rambunctious]

Both the Crimea and the Ukraine prefer socially responsible capitalism. Let's not get diverted into a discussion on the meaning of that.

The reasons why there was no fighting in Crimea is completely distinct from the reasons for this current war in which there is military involvement.

I'm pleased you understand the perils of the end result of a 'Cold' war and how it must inevitably lead to a 'Hot' one. Thus the need for a mutually acceptable draw.

A branch of agreement....

 

[flewism]

You aren't making much effort to follow events in the war obviously.

Really OK, you have seen videos of Ukrainian forces engaging Russians? I watched ABC new for an hour on this last night They showed 1/2 an hour of Russian tanks armored troop carriers rolling down the roads unopposed, Russian helicopters flying around. They did say the Ukrainian army was 250,000 strong, next 1/2 hour was nothing but politician talking sanctions and massive US aid to Ukraine. Today I watched 20 minute of video on the BBC, more videos of Russian military vehicles moving unopposed? drive through the suburban streets near Kiev even with passenger cars and a city bus in the scene. Then they showed the Ukrainian government handing out small arms to civilians. The BBC stated that all men from 18 years old to 60 years old are forbidden to leave the country. So where is the Ukrainian army of 250,000 men fighting the Russians?

 

[Vastator]

That old conspiracy theory that war is caused by the arms dealers?

Naaaaaah. They follow war, they don't lead war.

Just more blaming the vultures for the slaughter.