Is America the greatest country in the world?

[Unkotare]

The US has massive resources that could be used to help the whole world in a wide variety of ways.

Yeah, and WE DO.

 

[there4eyeM]

America may aid other countries, but not massively (unless arms are counted).
A very small percentage of G.D.P. even if one includes weapons.

But keep chanting...

 

[Indofred]

America may aid other countries, but not massively (unless arms are counted).
A very small percentage of G.D.P. even if one includes weapons.

But keep chanting...

The US has sent Israel $115 billion since WWII
Pity it's almost all weapons.

How does that compare to the healthcare bill that is considered to be such a waste of money?

 

[Liability]

"Some of our wars were ill-advised..."

What a laughable euphemism!

The most vociferous criticism from such an intellect can only be considered as flattery.

Only because you are such a drooling moron you cannot grasp the fact that some of our wars were well advised.

You really are quite pathetic.

Your stupid tone and boring tenor are familiar.

Did you used to post here under some other boring username?

 

[Foxfyre]

I voted, "No, but it could be.".
The US has massive resources that could be used to help the whole world in a wide variety of ways.
Mass education, aid to set up farming to keep hunger from the world and assistance to those in trouble from disaster.
And at a price that's likely to be a lot cheaper than war.

The US has the power to make the world it's friend - has it got the balls to do it?

Is there ANY other nation, however, that sends as much aid to other countries as does the USA? Is there ANY other nation that spends as much of its GDP in aid to other countries?

You seem to suggest that if the USA was more generous, we would have more friends or everybody would be its friend. I'm sorry, but that simply has not been the case thus far. While the USA remains the #1 preferred destination for those who would like to relocate, we are probably waaaaaaaaaay down on the list of nations that receive favorable ratings from other nations. We are almost consistently outvoted at the UN. We are criticized, maligned, insulted, and shrugged off. How "friendly" would all those nations receiving U.S. aid be at all if they were cut off from that aid?

Currently to Asia alone we are sending substantial funding to (and you'll note that Indonesia is on this list):

Afghanistan ·
Armenia ·
Azerbaijan ·
Bahrain ·
Bangladesh ·
Bhutan ·
Brunei ·
Burma (Myanmar) ·
Cambodia ·
People's Republic of China ·
Cyprus ·
East Timor (Timor-Leste) ·
Egypt ·
Georgia ·
India ·
Indonesia ·
Iran ·
Iraq ·
Israel ·
Japan ·
Jordan ·
Kazakhstan ·
North Korea ·
South Korea ·
Kuwait ·
Kyrgyzstan ·
Laos ·
Lebanon ·
Malaysia ·
Maldives ·
Mongolia ·
Nepal ·
Oman ·
Pakistan ·
Philippines ·
Qatar ·
Russia ·
Saudi Arabia ·
Singapore ·
Sri Lanka ·
Syria ·
Tajikistan ·
Thailand ·
Turkey ·
Turkmenistan ·
United Arab Emirates ·
Uzbekistan ·
Vietnam ·
Yemen

And limited funding to:
Abkhazia ·
Nagorno-Karabakh ·
Northern Cyprus ·
Palestine ·
Taiwan ·
South Ossetia
British Indian Ocean Territory ·
Christmas Island ·
Cocos (Keeling) Islands ·
Hong Kong ·
Macau

It is noted that countries that are not our enemies are also not neceessarily our friends which is the case with most of those countries that receive U.S. dollars as gifts. The old saw that friends you have to buy are not really friends remains true.

On the domestic front, in most cases, we can also recognize that we aren't making prosperous, productive, responsible citizens out of Americans receiving U.S. funds, nor in most cases are we making patriots (friends of our nation.) We do seem to be creating a great deal of that fragmentation that was mentioned by somebody in an earlier post however.

 

[Indofred]

I voted, "No, but it could be.".

Is there ANY other nation, however, that sends as much aid to other countries as does the USA? Is there ANY other nation that spends as much of its GDP in aid to other countries?

Currently to Asia alone we are send substantial funding to (and you'll note that Indonesia is on this list):

Afghanistan ·

I rather liked that post.
Te alphabetical listing was a nice touch.

You really have to try a little harder to twist a story when the figures are so easily available on the internet.

try this site

U.S. Foreign Aid Summary

A third of aid goes to Israel and Egypt, most in arms sales.

Indonesia was, as you said, on the list.
In the 70s, the US supported Indonesia.
Untitled Document

nearer to today
Indonesia at the Crossroads: U.S. Weapons Sales and Military Training | World Policy Institute

US has ended lethal weapon sales ban: RI | The Jakarta Post

Pretty much up to date
Indonesian Civil, Military Sectors Have Healthy Aircraft Appetites

OK, Indonesia is coming out of a dark period and is trying its best to become a democratic nation.
It's doing pretty well at it too but the aid is still arms sales for the most part.

 

[Hollie]

I voted, "No, but it could be.".

Is there ANY other nation, however, that sends as much aid to other countries as does the USA? Is there ANY other nation that spends as much of its GDP in aid to other countries?

Currently to Asia alone we are send substantial funding to (and you'll note that Indonesia is on this list):

Afghanistan ·

I rather liked that post.
Te alphabetical listing was a nice touch.

You really have to try a little harder to twist a story when the figures are so easily available on the internet.

try this site

U.S. Foreign Aid Summary

A third of aid goes to Israel and Egypt, most in arms sales.

Indonesia was, as you said, on the list.
In the 70s, the US supported Indonesia.
Untitled Document

nearer to today
Indonesia at the Crossroads: U.S. Weapons Sales and Military Training | World Policy Institute

US has ended lethal weapon sales ban: RI | The Jakarta Post

Pretty much up to date
Indonesian Civil, Military Sectors Have Healthy Aircraft Appetites

OK, Indonesia is coming out of a dark period and is trying its best to become a democratic nation.
It's doing pretty well at it too but the aid is still arms sales for the most part.

No one is forcing the Indonesian government to buy US aircraft.

Your posts would be better by ending them with "Death to the Great Satan".

 

[there4eyeM]

Who agrees that the war with Mexico was just and good? How about the imperial war with Spain and the resulting occupation and repression in the Philippines? How about the illegal invasion and destruction of Iraq? Any drooling idiots want to defend these?

 

[Indofred]

No one is forcing the Indonesian government to buy US aircraft.

This is true but that's governments for you.
You'll note, in my defence, the aid comes at exactly the same time as orders for aircraft.
I'm sure that's just a coincidence.

Come on - The US is giving away free aircraft to keep the US arms trade running.
It'll be really interesting to know who pays who to vote for these things.

Your posts would be better by ending them with "Death to the Great Satan".

Perhaps you could link to hate posts about the US. I've pointed out how various governments have murdered in large numbers no hate as such.
Is it hate to point out undisputed facts?

Same goes for Israel. Point out where I've shown hatred. I really dislike their government but I never make hate posts about Jews or anyone else and so on that you see from other posters.

Can you say the same with regard to your posts about Muslims?

 

[Foxfyre]

Is there ANY other nation, however, that sends as much aid to other countries as does the USA? Is there ANY other nation that spends as much of its GDP in aid to other countries?

Currently to Asia alone we are send substantial funding to (and you'll note that Indonesia is on this list):

Afghanistan ·

I rather liked that post.
Te alphabetical listing was a nice touch.

You really have to try a little harder to twist a story when the figures are so easily available on the internet.

try this site

U.S. Foreign Aid Summary

A third of aid goes to Israel and Egypt, most in arms sales.

Indonesia was, as you said, on the list.
In the 70s, the US supported Indonesia.
Untitled Document

nearer to today
Indonesia at the Crossroads: U.S. Weapons Sales and Military Training | World Policy Institute

US has ended lethal weapon sales ban: RI | The Jakarta Post

Pretty much up to date
Indonesian Civil, Military Sectors Have Healthy Aircraft Appetites

OK, Indonesia is coming out of a dark period and is trying its best to become a democratic nation.
It's doing pretty well at it too but the aid is still arms sales for the most part.

No one is forcing the Indonesian government to buy US aircraft.

Your posts would be better by ending them with "Death to the Great Satan".

The USA sends more than $250 million to Indonesia, unrelated to any arms sales, each and every year. That puts Indonesia about 13th on the list of the nations that receive U.S. aid. By comparison, Israel who is No. 1 on the list, receives something over $2 billion.

Israel, however, generally votes with the U.S. at the U.N. Indonesia almost never does. So what does our contributions to Indonesia buy us? Nothing. It is a pure gift. Apparently with no strings attached, but does provide something of an incentive to keep markets open.

Despite the relatively small percentage of the U.S. budget going for all foreign aid, it is still a significant amount of money. How many of us have ever had a million dollars? How much money is a million dollars to you? How hard do you have to work to send a few thousand dollars in taxes to Washington every year? Yet to our fearless leaders there, a million dollars is pocket change, not even worth considering how hard we worked to send it to them to spend.

And not only do all those nations politely receive our money, most seemingly accepting it as their right to receive with no need to reciprocate, so does the benevolence our tax dollars heap on about 50% of our own American people become something they seem to accept as their right to have with no need to reciprocate.

And it is THAT which I believe is the worst problem our nation faces today, and it is THAT which I believe has fragmented us, and has diminished us as a nation.

Convince me otherwise.

 

[Foxfyre]

President Obama reports that U.S. aid is only 1 to 2% of the federal budget. Yet it translates to about $180 for every man, woman, and child in the U.S.A. if everybody paid federal taxes. Since everybody doesn't pay federal taxes, the annual contribution for those of us who do is considerably higher.

Do you feel you are getting your money's worth?

Domestic welfare is about 20% or so of the federal budget if you include social security and medicare and that translates to something over $3,000 for every man, woman, and child in the USA. And yet there is more dependence on govenment than ever with approximately 50% of all Americans receiving some sort of government benefit.

do you feel you are getting your money's worth?

 

[Synthaholic]

How nice of you to stereotype the poor as being drug users. I don't think the examples you give hurt poor people as much as they hurt STUPID people.

How nice of you to display your stupidity.

Most drug abusers who are imprisoned are poor.

I didn't claim that most poor people are drug abusers.




Another example of why the Rightwing are constantly wrong: they cannot even read and comprehend correctly.

poor people ,pan handlers,hardcore homeless addicts do not fund billion dollar drug enterprises just as alcoholic town drunks do not support the liquor industry.. there are not enough hardcore street addicts to support such a vast enterprise..what supports the industry is vast numbers of middle and upper income recreational users and addicts

True. But it doesn't address my point in the least.

 

[Synthaholic]

But what has changed? (If anything.) And why has it changed? Many of us recall a time when as a people we once would not have even thought to disrespect the National Anthem, the flag, the Pledge of Allegiance. We were unashamed in our patriotic displays and enthusiasm, and we mostly shared values of church, family, Christmas programs at school whether we were Christian or not, a generic prayer before the highschool football game whether we were religious or not. Being a real man who supported his family was deemed a virtue and an expectation for all and in the small towns, everybody disciplined everybody's kids and kids were expected to grow up as educated, responsible, mature citizens. The traditional family was the backbone of the nation. We knew our nation was imperfect, but we honestly believed it was better than any other and we believed in ourselves that we could find ways to fix whatever ailed it.

Silly nostalgic myths some of our younger generation would say. But those of us who lived it know it was real.

Until the 1980s, it was considered vulgar by American society for a CEO to make more than 100 x more than their employees.

Now it's celebrated by some as an ideal to emulate.

Until the 1980s, it was considered unpatriotic for a company to be a war profiteer.

Now it's seen as a business goal.

What you're condemning is far from exclusive to the United States. Surely you must've known that?

I disagree. And note that I never claimed it was exclusive to the U.S., but we pioneered it.

You will not find the same inequities in Britain or Germany. Japan even has laws regulating it.

 

[Unkotare]

America may aid other countries, but not massively...

Go ask people suffering from AIDS and malaria in Africa about that (for one example out of many, many), you empty-headed big-mouth punk.

 

[Unkotare]

OK, Indonesia is coming out of a dark period and is trying its best to become a democratic nation.
It's doing pretty well at it too but the aid is still arms sales for the most part.

U.S. ups tsunami aid from $35 million to $350 million - CNN

US tsunami aid still reaps goodwill / The Christian Science Monitor - CSMonitor.com

DefenseLink Special: U.S. Troops Aid Tsunami Victims

 

[Foxfyre]

Unkotare (and one or two others), I have repeatedly requested civility for this thread. There are hundreds of threads where it is expected that you insult other members. We are having an intermittant interesting discussion here, and I very much do not want this to dissolve into another flame thread. Your understanding will be much appreciated.

As far as massively aiding other countries, yes we send a tremendous amount of aid for Africa's efforts to combat rampant AIDS there. President Bush stepped up that process several fold during his Administration.

But what is the definition of 'massive'? Is $50 billion an insignificant amount? Many, probably most of us, cannot really wrap our minds around how much a billion dollars actually is. How many man hours it requires to earn that much money. More significantly, how many man hours of hard work it requires to pay that much in taxes.

I think that is another serious flaw and breakdown in our great country. We have lost perspective and too often do not translate dollars into the effort and resources necessary to produce them.

 

[Unkotare]

How about the illegal invasion and destruction of Iraq? ?

It was not illegal and we did not destroy Iraq.

 

[Synthaholic]

But what has changed? (If anything.) And why has it changed? Many of us recall a time when as a people we once would not have even thought to disrespect the National Anthem, the flag, the Pledge of Allegiance. We were unashamed in our patriotic displays and enthusiasm, and we mostly shared values of church, family, Christmas programs at school whether we were Christian or not, a generic prayer before the highschool football game whether we were religious or not. Being a real man who supported his family was deemed a virtue and an expectation for all and in the small towns, everybody disciplined everybody's kids and kids were expected to grow up as educated, responsible, mature citizens. The traditional family was the backbone of the nation. We knew our nation was imperfect, but we honestly believed it was better than any other and we believed in ourselves that we could find ways to fix whatever ailed it.

Silly nostalgic myths some of our younger generation would say. But those of us who lived it know it was real.

Until the 1980s, it was considered vulgar by American society for a CEO to make more than 100 x more than their employees.

Now it's celebrated by some as an ideal to emulate.

Was it? I don't recall that being an issue in the 1960's and 70's. I do recal people like J.C. Penney and Henry Ford and the Rockefellers being somewhat revered as the examples of what we all could aspire to be--people who provided us with great products, great marketing, great philanthropy. Certainly the disparity between the income of these people and all of the people I knew was immense. But it didn't matter as we all expected to earn what we received. Class warfare was not a common household word as it is today.

Until the 1980s, it was considered unpatriotic for a company to be a war profiteer.

Now it's seen as a business goal.

From what I heard and read from the generation just preceding mine, in WWII--that would be well before the 1980's--it was considered one's patriotic duty to participate in the war effort. Many manufacturing plants shut down domestic operations to retool to make guns and tanks and other war equipment. Certainly all who did that profited mightily. Many women left their kitchens to become "Rosie the Riveter" in the manufacturing plants to replace the men who were overseas fighting the war. To save certain products, to conserve, to accept rationing was all one's patriotic duty.

There are many perspectives to consider other than the assigned political views and talking points. I like to focus on the realities in this thread rather than the politivcally correct point of view.

Wow, that's a lot of words to be totally wrong on both counts!

Henry Ford paid his workers very well, because he knew that if he didn't they would not be able to afford his automobiles. He needed those cars out on the streets, in order to spur interest and sales, and to get the government to build roads. Demand spurring supply.

Medal of Honor recipient Smedley D. Butler, who was a Marine Corps Major General and a major figure in U.S. military history, wrote a groundbreaking book after WWI, War Is A Racket, which outed industrialist war profiteers. During WWII, FDR made it a crime to be a war profiteer. There is a famous photo of one being carried out of his corporation by 5 or 6 police officers, arrested.

It used to be a reviled practice.

But then came Bush/Cheney:

The 10 Most Brazen War Profiteers | World | AlterNet

It is disgusting.

ETA: the politicians who have taken the money:

http://archive.truthout.org/war-profiteers-corner-steven-r-loranger62704

 

[Foxfyre]

How about the illegal invasion and destruction of Iraq? ?

It was not illegal and we did not destroy Iraq.

Where this one becomes relevant to this thread is in our view of the world as citizens of the last world super power. Do we really see the activities of other nations as our business to the point that we should intervene? Was the murder of thousands of their own citizens by the Lybian government sufficient cause to intervene? Would it be in Syria in which even larger amounts of people are being killed on a daily basis?

And as a people do we see a threat to U.S. interests as sufficient reason to act? Or must there be hostile action from others that justifies retaliation before we can load our weapons?

If we had known in advance what al Qaida was planning on 9/11, would that have been sufficient reason to strike first? Or should it be as a matter of policy that we allow all those people to die in order to justify retaliation?

As a people we should think on these things and instruct our government accordingly.

 

[Unkotare]

If we had known in advance what al Qaida was planning on 9/11, would that have been sufficient reason to strike first? .

Of course.