Irreducible complexity

[Hollie]

I'd rather see how he thinks this single layer of sedimentary rock covers a large portion of the globe.

The simple answer is Noah's Flood.

The Bible theory Scripture specifies that the time elapsed for all of creation and earth history has not been very long. Our geology confirms it.

And no green font.

You can’t define “Bible theory”, yet you refer to it as though anyone but an ID’iot creationist should accept it.

Geology confirms a very old planet. The relevant sciences documents that. The reason why ID’ers do no research or publish in peer reviewed papers is because they simply cannot support their young earth claims.

Why do you make claim that are unsupportable?

 

[Hollie]

I do not consider myself a "leftie". But I do consider people who lie to further their agenda to be nonproductive.

You seem like a balanced person. All I can say is from studying evolution and creation science that only one can be right. I'm NOT arguing ID like Magnificat. Irreducible complexity has been falsified. I can't convince you that the fossil record is a trick based on your "faith-based" beliefs in evolution. It may be due to this is what you were taught. In my case, I'm older so I had to learn it myself and believed in it until I started questioning it around 2007 - 2011 time frame. A lot came out to challenge evolution then. For example, evos think the fossil record shows plants and animals lived together at the same time. This isn't necessarily true if catastrophism prevailed. Then plants and animals were buried in layers in fast time and it just shows they were buried together. So, the debate continues. I don't think we'll be able to reach an agreement on what happened based on fossil layers since we can't agree on the age of the Earth and universe. What I can show is how these layers happened rapidly like with Mt. St. Helens. You'll see the same sedimentary layers.

Its also interesting to note that the geologic column is a single, unbroken expanse of sedimentary rock that spans a large portion of the globe. It actually covers several continents. It is obvious that this layer was deposited during a single catastrophic event. What could have caused it?

What could have caused it?

I'd rather see how he thinks this single layer of sedimentary rock covers a large portion of the globe.

I never expect anything beyond a link to Answers in Genesis.

 

[alang1216]

If a fossil is ever found that contradicts the theory, the theory must be false.

Haha. it's false then. You were right that it can be falsified tho. There was a horse dragon or horse dinosaur found, so they just added him to the sequence of whatever lol. You also have living fossils to explain or all the other fossils whose age do not fall in the ranges you determine..

I've never heard about a horse dragon or horse dinosaur. Got a link?

ToE says most species have gone extinct but not all so living fossils need no other explanation. What other fossils whose age do not fall in the ranges are you talking about? Link?

 

[james bond]

I'd rather see how he thinks this single layer of sedimentary rock covers a large portion of the globe.

The simple answer is Noah's Flood.

The Bible theory Scripture specifies that the time elapsed for all of creation and earth history has not been very long. Our geology confirms it.

And no green font.

Noah's Flood?

First of all, that a sedimentary layer is covering most of the globe (oceans included) has not been shown.

Second of all, if it exists and depending on where the layer is in the strata, it would offer as much proof of a long wet period in geological time.

The global flood is historical.

"The Flood of Noah’s day (2348 BC) was a year-long global catastrophe that destroyed the pre-Flood world, reshaped the continents, buried billions of creatures, and laid down the rock layers. It was God’s judgment on man’s wickedness and only eight righteous people, and representatives of every kind of land animal, were spared aboard the Ark."

The Flood

Would that not change the geology of the Earth and in rapid fashion?

That said, why was it covered up with a story that it was all myths? However, we find that these myths are found throughout the world. No local flood, even a large regional one, would do that.

One can only lead a horse to water, but not make them drink. I suppose they can run him around the track until he's thirsty, but you can't do that with humans. The big lie covers up the truth. Not vice versa. Shrug.

 

[alang1216]

The geological column works. But the Earth is not stagnant. The crust shifts, mountains rise, and the columns get moved. But not out of sequence.

Post a link showing that fossils are found out of sequence. Your own ignorance is showing here.

Creation scientists think it's evolutionist dogma about the fossil record. Don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing for ID. IOW, it's "faith-based" science. What we find is that the fossil records shows catastrophes which you admitted. However, these catastrophes cause the layers to occur in rapid fashion. Not eons of long-time as you believe.

Have you ever been to the Grand Canyon? There are several areas where several sedimentary layers are bent? I saw one that was bent 90 degrees! Those layers, which scientists claim took millions of years to form are bent. Rock does not bend. That means ALL of those layers were deposited at the same time. There can be no other explanation. That means that all the fossil bearing layers of the Grand Canyon cannot be millions of years old, and were deposited in a single catastrophic event.

Actually rock does bend, it just takes an enormous amount of time, heat, and pressure.

If the rocks of the Grand Canyon were deposited in a single catastrophic event, how do you explain the fact that some of them are marine sediments and some are dessert sediments?

 

[alang1216]

I'd rather see how he thinks this single layer of sedimentary rock covers a large portion of the globe.

The simple answer is Noah's Flood.

The Bible theory Scripture specifies that the time elapsed for all of creation and earth history has not been very long. Our geology confirms it.

And no green font.

Noah's Flood?

First of all, that a sedimentary layer is covering most of the globe (oceans included) has not been shown.

Second of all, if it exists and depending on where the layer is in the strata, it would offer as much proof of a long wet period in geological time.

The global flood is historical.

"The Flood of Noah’s day (2348 BC) was a year-long global catastrophe that destroyed the pre-Flood world, reshaped the continents, buried billions of creatures, and laid down the rock layers. It was God’s judgment on man’s wickedness and only eight righteous people, and representatives of every kind of land animal, were spared aboard the Ark."

The Flood

Would that not change the geology of the Earth and in rapid fashion?

That said, why was it covered up with a story that it was all myths? However, we find that these myths are found throughout the world. No local flood, even a large regional one, would do that.

One can only lead a horse to water, but not make them drink. I suppose they can run him around the track until he's thirsty, but you can't do that with humans. The big lie covers up the truth. Not vice versa. Shrug.

Geologists say that continents move slowly, about the speed your nails grow. Did they rush about much faster due to the flood? If so was it miraculous or did it follow the physics we see today?

 

[alang1216]

Its also interesting to note that the geologic column is a single, unbroken expanse of sedimentary rock that spans a large portion of the globe. It actually covers several continents. It is obvious that this layer was deposited during a single catastrophic event. What could have caused it?

There is no such unbroken expanse of sedimentary rock that spans a large portion of the globe. I don't know where you got that but it is absolutely not true.

 

[james bond]

Actually rock does bend, it just takes an enormous amount of time, heat, and pressure.

If the rocks of the Grand Canyon were deposited in a single catastrophic event, how do you explain the fact that some of them are marine sediments and some are dessert sediments?

More lies to cover the truth. Rock, thousands of feet thick, have been bent and folded without fracturing. This can only happen if it happens rapidly. Not through enormous amount of time, heat, and pressure.

Go ahead and explain what facts you are referring to in the GC with the marine and desert sediments.

 

[james bond]

Geologists say that continents move slowly, about the speed your nails grow. Did they rush about much faster due to the flood? If so was it miraculous or did it follow the physics we see today?

Secular geologists believe the slow, long-time theories. It's based on uniformitarianism and evolution from the 1850s. Prior to that geologists believed the Earth formed rapidly. We find that plate tectonics cover our Earth and this would cause the supercontinent Pangea to break into what we have today with the catastrophism theories.

As for the future, catastrophism tells us that our planet will be engulfed in flames, a global fire which no one will escape. How can this happen? For the believers, we discovered that on the first day.

The secular scientists believe in catastrophism, too, although the creation scientists do not believe in the lies of uniformitarianism. Many people today are led to think a large asteroid will hit the Earth and global warming will finish the planet once and for all. I suppose there are those who think a supervolcano will happen along with a tsunami aftermath.

 

[alang1216]

More lies to cover the truth. Rock, thousands of feet thick, have been bent and folded without fracturing. This can only happen if it happens rapidly. Not through enormous amount of time, heat, and pressure.

You must be joking! Take a slab of slate from a blackboard and see if you can bend or fold it rapidly. You can't, it just factures. Now take a slab and heat it until it glows, now try to bend it. You can. Given enough time, heat, and pressure, rock will flow like molasses.

Go ahead and explain what facts you are referring to in the GC with the marine and desert sediments.

The fact is there is no single catastrophic event that can deposit both marine and desert sediments. Or can you come up with an event that could?

 

[Wuwei]

Yes, you and I have our differences between fast time and catastrophism and long time and uniformitarianism, but who knows what happens in hundreds of millions or billions of years? I have a good idea, but you won't believe our Earth and universe won't be around anymore. That said, why don't you explain how I will "have to dump over 100 years of modern physics including quantum mechanics and refute countless experimental observations with accuracies of 1 part per billion."

I'm not concerned with catastrophism or geology. You can believe what you want.

BUT, in justifying your beliefs you cannot bandy about the basic laws of physics and change the basic underlying physical constants. These constants (including the speed of light, Planck constant, elementary charge, the fine structure constant, etc.) were measured with accuracies of parts per million to parts per trillion. They are tightly interconnected in the laws of physics.

If you try to change, the "uniformitarianism" of decay rate of isotopes, the physical laws and constants that need to be changed to support your belief will screw up everything else in 100 years of modern physics. I'm sure no Creationist nor physicist would be able to reinvent an alternate self-consistent physics to support the beliefs of the non-uniformitarianism of Creationism.

.

 

[alang1216]

We find that plate tectonics cover our Earth and this would cause the supercontinent Pangea to break into what we have today with the catastrophism theories.

So Pangea broke apart and the continents moved to their current locations in a single year? A continent like North America traveling 1/3 of a mile every hour! Spectacular if true. What could have powered such motion on so massive a scale?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Rock does not

Yes it does.

Oops, another stupid YEC lie out the window....

 

[james bond]

You must be joking! Take a slab of slate from a blackboard and see if you can bend or fold it rapidly. You can't, it just factures. Now take a slab and heat it until it glows, now try to bend it. You can. Given enough time, heat, and pressure, rock will flow like molasses.

Again, with the millions of years BS. You have no experiment to make rock flow like molasses if it takes millions of years. More fake science on your part. However, I have Guy Berthault's work and experiments with stratification.

 

[james bond]

We find that plate tectonics cover our Earth and this would cause the supercontinent Pangea to break into what we have today with the catastrophism theories.

So Pangea broke apart and the continents moved to their current locations in a single year? A continent like North America traveling 1/3 of a mile every hour! Spectacular if true. What could have powered such motion on so massive a scale?

Noah's Flood. What have I been talking about?

 

[james bond]

I'm not concerned with catastrophism or geology. You can believe what you want.

It goes to show you're not scientific and ignorant. Otherwise, you would have explained your complaint about how I was explaining catastrophism and geology. Not everyone believes in millions of years geology which can't be observed.

BUT, in justifying your beliefs you cannot bandy about the basic laws of physics and change the basic underlying physical constants. These constants (including the speed of light, Planck constant, elementary charge, the fine structure constant, etc.) were measured with accuracies of parts per million to parts per trillion. They are tightly interconnected in the laws of physics.

It's not my beliefs, but the Bible theory and what happened during the global flood. Do you need to see more evidence? What basic laws of physics and constants are you talking about?

If you try to change, the "uniformitarianism" of decay rate of isotopes, the physical laws and constants that need to be changed to support your belief will screw up everything else in 100 years of modern physics. I'm sure no Creationist nor physicist would be able to reinvent an alternate self-consistent physics to support the beliefs of the non-uniformitarianism of Creationism.

Now, you're onto uniformitarianism and decay rate. Why are you claiming my beliefs is religion and does not match up to your fake science. Your science beliefs are based on "faith-based" worldview. You are very confused and come across so in your post.

 

[james bond]

What's really wrong and stupid is rock, once it becomes rock, can end up flowing like molasses again. I suppose my opposition is saying it liquifies.

We can use Portland cement which contains the compounds belite (Ca2SiO4) and alite (Ca3O·SiO4). When they are mixed with water they form crystals that grow like tiny rock-hard fingers wrapping around the sand and gravel creating concrete. This means that concrete hardens underwater. Concrete doesn’t harden because it dries out. It hardens because it hydrates. Adding more water to concrete will not reverse the chemical reaction.which is liquid rock when it is mixed with water. I don't know any way to turn it back into soft rock once it hardens. It's a one-way process.

Thus, fake science or BS science on my opponents part?

ETA: It's the lie that with millions of years anything is possible including breaking the laws of science, chemistry, and physics. Well, my opponents can continue to believe that fake lying bull, but the nice thing about observational science is that it's true no matter what idiocy one believes.

 

[Wuwei]

Otherwise, you would have explained your complaint about how I was explaining catastrophism and geology. Not everyone believes in millions of years geology which can't be observed.

What I was saying is that you are ignorant of basic physics, and you want to change the science to fit your preordained young world creationism. That doesn't work. Billions of years of the existence of earth, the solar system, and galaxies are consistent with physics. A few thousand years are not.

It's not my beliefs, but the Bible theory and what happened during the global flood. Do you need to see more evidence? What basic laws of physics and constants are you talking about?

I already told you in previous posts how creationist ideas are violating science.

Now, you're onto uniformitarianism and decay rate. Why are you claiming my beliefs is religion and does not match up to your fake science. Your science beliefs are based on "faith-based" worldview. You are very confused and come across so in your post.

Since you think science is fake, why did you ask what laws and constants are involved? You are confused when you think science is faith based. You got it backwards. Since you don't believe science why do you troll in the science and technology forum? There is a religious forum for you.

.

 

[WinterBorn]

Actually rock does bend, it just takes an enormous amount of time, heat, and pressure.

If the rocks of the Grand Canyon were deposited in a single catastrophic event, how do you explain the fact that some of them are marine sediments and some are dessert sediments?

More lies to cover the truth. Rock, thousands of feet thick, have been bent and folded without fracturing. This can only happen if it happens rapidly. Not through enormous amount of time, heat, and pressure.

Go ahead and explain what facts you are referring to in the GC with the marine and desert sediments.

Actually, if it happened rapidly it would fracture. The more slowly it happens the more likely to bend without breaking.

Also, the layer may not have been able to break, if it were totally buried.

 

[WinterBorn]

Geologists say that continents move slowly, about the speed your nails grow. Did they rush about much faster due to the flood? If so was it miraculous or did it follow the physics we see today?

Secular geologists believe the slow, long-time theories. It's based on uniformitarianism and evolution from the 1850s. Prior to that geologists believed the Earth formed rapidly. We find that plate tectonics cover our Earth and this would cause the supercontinent Pangea to break into what we have today with the catastrophism theories.

As for the future, catastrophism tells us that our planet will be engulfed in flames, a global fire which no one will escape. How can this happen? For the believers, we discovered that on the first day.

The secular scientists believe in catastrophism, too, although the creation scientists do not believe in the lies of uniformitarianism. Many people today are led to think a large asteroid will hit the Earth and global warming will finish the planet once and for all. I suppose there are those who think a supervolcano will happen along with a tsunami aftermath.

The continents are still moving.