Iraq seeks sharp reduction in U.S. military role

[mattskramer]

And those are no exception.

The State Dept. and "independent" surveyors? What does that mean? Who? How were they polled? Who did they poll?

Oh quit squirming. They are perfectly legitimate polls.

 

[AllieBaba]

How do you know that? I didn't see anything that proves their legitimacy. Well, except for the Gallup poll because I guess they're credible. Though I'm not sure how a poll is conducted "with" other parties and still maintains its integrity.

Regardless, I still want to see who is being polled, and what questions are asked and how they're asked. I've participated in "polls" before which makes me highly suspicious.

 

[mattskramer]

How do you know that? I didn't see anything that proves their legitimacy. Well, except for the Gallup poll because I guess they're credible. Though I'm not sure how a poll is conducted "with" other parties and still maintains its integrity.

Regardless, I still want to see who is being polled, and what questions are asked and how they're asked. I've participated in "polls" before which makes me highly suspicious.

So let me get this straight. Is it that any poll whose conclusion you don’t like, an illegitimate poll? Anyway, the details are right there. Do you want to call the people who were polled and ask the Iraqis yourself?

http://www.usatoday.com/news/graphics/iraq_poll/flash.htm

 

[AllieBaba]

No, I don't like polls, period. Because I know I can find polls that support any view. Though I'm not above using them to impress people who are impressed by polls.

If you could get Iraqis...not your friends, perhaps, but random people off the street, to call me, I'd perhaps accept that. Though it depends what pool you were drawing from.

 

[mattskramer]

No, I don't like polls, period. Because I know I can find polls that support any view. Though I'm not above using them to impress people who are impressed by polls.

You asked for the polls. I presented them to you.

If you could get Iraqis...not your friends, perhaps, but random people off the street, to call me, I'd perhaps accept that.

Go to the "Voices" tab and listen to the audio from these random people.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/graphic...poll/flash.htm

... it depends what pool you were drawing from.

Did you want to pick the respondents? If so, have you ever heard of selection bias? This poll was conducted across Iraq with over 3000 randomly selected Iraqis.

 

[AllieBaba]

You referred to the polls. I asked for the links, because I'm always curious.

You can believe them if you like, I've no doubt sometimes they really are an accurate representation.

I just don't take it as a given, and I don't rely on polls to tell me anything.

"Across Iraq" and "randomly selected" could mean anything.

 

[Zoomie1980]

What on earth are you talking about? John McCain just said we'd be there for 100 years.

And what exit strategy are you talking about? There isn't any exit strategy. It's the Iraqis telling us to get out of their country... that isn't an exit strategy. That's a country telling us it doesn't want to be occupied.

Amazing how poorly some people can read for comprehension. The Iraqi's are NOT telling us to get out of their country at all, you twit. We are merely transforming our role. And yes, like Korea and the Balkans, we are going to be there in perpetuity. Which is one of the REAL reasons we went in there in the first place. Two major US airbases now in short striking distance from Iran....the REAL enemy. And in reasonable range of the Caspian Sea oil fields, where the next great global stuggle over resources will begin soon....(another "REAL" reason behind our presence in Afghanistan).

You people need to take time out to think for once....in a long term strategic sense...

 

[Zoomie1980]

Oh quit squirming. They are perfectly legitimate polls.

The BBC is worse than the NY Times....and that takes some doing...

 

[DeadCanDance]

Amazing how poorly some people can read for comprehension. The Iraqi's are NOT telling us to get out of their country at all, you twit. We are merely transforming our role. And yes, like Korea and the Balkans, we are going to be there in perpetuity.

Which is one of the REAL reasons we went in there in the first place. Two major US airbases now in short striking distance from Iran....the REAL enemy. And in reasonable range of the Caspian Sea oil fields, where the next great global stuggle over resources will begin soon....(another "REAL" reason behind our presence in Afghanistan).

.

Frankly, it's nice to see an honest Bush voter, who doesn't lie all the time.

Most people who were against the iraq war from the beginning, said these were the reasons we were invading. And that we were going in to establish a permanent military posture, because of the oil fields in the region. And surprisingly, Bush voters laughed at us, and lied for Bush--- saying that we weren't doing this.

Props, for your honesty

 

[Taomon]

NBC News and MSNBC
updated 2:22 p.m. CT, Thurs., Jan. 24, 2008


About damned time the Iraqis decided to step up to the plate.

Not to piss in your wheaties, but your boy Bush has other plans: http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/01/25/bush_plan_for_iraq_would_be_a_first/

 

[Zoomie1980]

Frankly, it's nice to see an honest Bush voter, who doesn't lie all the time.

Most people who were against the iraq war from the beginning, said these were the reasons we were invading. And that we were going in to establish a permanent military posture, because of the oil fields in the region. And surprisingly, Bush voters laughed at us, and lied for Bush--- saying that we weren't doing this.

Props, for your honesty

It's call "Realpolotik", coined by Edward Shevronotsky(sp) and other Russians back in the 1960's. It was the reason behind Vietnam, too. It is ALWAYS the reason behind why we do things the way we do. And it really doesn't matter whether it's a Republican or Democrat in the White House, they will behave the same.

Any Democrat who thinks Hillary or Barrack, if elected will leave Iraq is a complete fool. They won't do that the same as Bush didn't pull Clinton's Balkan deployment out (they are all still there). We won't need 150,000 troops in Iraq much longer but we will always have 30-50,000 or so...for the rest of your lifetime, most likely. And that is so no matter which party is in control in Washington.

 

[Taomon]

Amazing how poorly some people can read for comprehension. The Iraqi's are NOT telling us to get out of their country at all, you twit. We are merely transforming our role. And yes, like Korea and the Balkans, we are going to be there in perpetuity. Which is one of the REAL reasons we went in there in the first place. Two major US airbases now in short striking distance from Iran....the REAL enemy. And in reasonable range of the Caspian Sea oil fields, where the next great global stuggle over resources will begin soon....(another "REAL" reason behind our presence in Afghanistan).

You people need to take time out to think for once....in a long term strategic sense...

Actually, water is a resource that the next war will be fought over. A couple of years back India and China almost came to blows because of the Irrawaddy dam being built in Burma which has many disastrous results for Indians and Burmese and many benefits for the Chinese.

http://www.mizzima.com/MizzimaNews/News/2007/Oct/82-Oct-2007.html

 

[Zoomie1980]

Actually, water is a resource that the next war will be fought over. A couple of years back India and China almost came to blows because of the Irrawaddy dam being built in Burma which has many disastrous results for Indians and Burmese and many benefits for the Chinese.

http://www.mizzima.com/MizzimaNews/News/2007/Oct/82-Oct-2007.html

Nation's interests will always collide over some sort of scarcity.

 

[mattskramer]

Amazing how poorly some people can read for comprehension. The Iraqi's are NOT telling us to get out of their country at all, you twit.

The Iraqi citizens want us out of Iraq. I presented at least two polls to support that claim.

 

[mattskramer]

The BBC is worse than the NY Times....and that takes some doing...

What about USA Today, Gallop and CNN?

http://www.usatoday.com/news/graphics/iraq_poll/flash.htm

The poll was made in conjunction with all three organizations. By the way, wouldn’t it be more intellectually honest to criticize the poll and not the company conducting the poll? I don’t particularly like my mailman but he does deliver the bills that I am obligated to pay.

 

[Zoomie1980]

What about USA Today, Gallop and CNN?

http://www.usatoday.com/news/graphics/iraq_poll/flash.htm

The poll was made in conjunction with all three organizations. By the way, wouldn’t it be more intellectually honest to criticize the poll and not the company conducting the poll? I don’t particularly like my mailman but he does deliver the bills that I am obligated to pay.

The only one REMOTELY credible is Gallup. I'd rather use the other two for toilet paper. As for the poll result, themselves, first, they are old and do not even closely represent the tremendous success the surge has had to date, and even as old as they are they don't show much of anything conclusive at all.

We will be in Iraq for the rest of your liftetime, whether you like it or not or whether some poll says the Iraqi people want it or not. Push comes to shove, the Iraqi's know fully well the US troops are the only thing that stand between them and Iran.

 

[mattskramer]

The only one REMOTELY credible is Gallup. I'd rather use the other two for toilet paper. As for the poll result, themselves, first, they are old and do not even closely represent the tremendous success the surge has had to date, and even as old as they are they don't show much of anything conclusive at all.

We will be in Iraq for the rest of your liftetime, whether you like it or not or whether some poll says the Iraqi people want it or not. Push comes to shove, the Iraqi's know fully well the US troops are the only thing that stand between them and Iran.

Here is a poll:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/26/AR2006092601721.html

That was posted less than 18 months ago. Yikes. It’s by the Washington Post. DO you like the Washington Post? Probably not – since you probably don’t like the poll results.

Here is another poll:

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0927-03.htm

Here is another one.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-09-27-iraqi-opinion_x.htm

The State Department, meanwhile, has conducted its own poll, something it does periodically, spokesman Sean McCormack said. The State Department poll found two-thirds of Iraqis in Baghdad favor an immediate withdrawal of U.S. forces, according to The Washington Post. McCormack declined to discuss details of the department's poll.

Here is another poll:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/09/27/MNGPOLDIHT1.DTL

Whether or not you think that these polls are valid and reliable or whether or not you think that they are outdated or biased, I think that we can agree on one thing. We are going to turn control over to the Iraqi government, Iraqi soldiers, Iraqi police, and the Iraqi people when we feel like it irrespective of what the Iraqi people want or when the Iraqi people want us to leave Iraq.

 

[DeadCanDance]

Here is a poll:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/26/AR2006092601721.html

That was posted less than 18 months ago. Yikes. It’s by the Washington Post. DO you like the Washington Post? Probably not – since you probably don’t like the poll results.

Here is another poll:

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0927-03.htm

Here is another one.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-09-27-iraqi-opinion_x.htm

The State Department, meanwhile, has conducted its own poll, something it does periodically, spokesman Sean McCormack said. The State Department poll found two-thirds of Iraqis in Baghdad favor an immediate withdrawal of U.S. forces, according to The Washington Post. McCormack declined to discuss details of the department's poll.

Here is another poll:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/09/27/MNGPOLDIHT1.DTL

Whether or not you think that these polls are valid and reliable or whether or not you think that they are outdated or biased, I think that we can agree on one thing. We are going to turn control over to the Iraqi government, Iraqi soldiers, Iraqi police, and the Iraqi people when we feel like it irrespective of what the Iraqi people want or when the Iraqi people want us to leave Iraq.

You've offered vast quantities of empirical, scientific, statistical evidence to support your position.

The other dude offers his gut feelings and guesses, not backed by any data.


You win.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

You've offered vast quantities of empirical, scientific, statistical evidence to support your position.

The other dude offers his gut feelings and guesses, not backed by any data.


You win.

Wait? How and by whom were these polls conducted? There were large areas of Iraq unsafe to venture in until quite recently, how exactly were people polled in these areas if no non Iraqi/Arab could go there safely? No phones to ring them up on and no western Union to send them a telegram?

 

[mattskramer]

Wait? How and by whom were these polls conducted? There were large areas of Iraq unsafe to venture in until quite recently, how exactly were people polled in these areas if no non Iraqi/Arab could go there safely? No phones to ring them up on and no western Union to send them a telegram?

If the polls made conclusions with which you agree, would you also be asking these questions? I doubt it. I don’t know how the Iraqi’s were reached. Perhaps some brave journalists decided to take chances and go into the Iraqi towns and ask the citizens and ask the people how they felt. If you are that interested, contact USAToday and ask it.