Iraq is imploding. Should we lend air support or wash our hands?

[edthecynic]

He was taken as a prisoner of the Americans in Camp Bucca between 2005 and 2009 - it was here that one of the only two photos know to be in existence was taken of him.

'We either arrested or killed a man of that name about half a dozen times, he is like a wraith who keeps reappearing, and I am not sure where fact and fiction meet,' said Lieutenant-General Sir Graeme Lamb, a former British special forces commander who helped US efforts against al-Qaeda in Iraq told The Telegraph.

'There are those who want to promote the idea that this man is invincible, when it may actually be several people using the same nom de guerre.'

His capture in 2005 is pure bullshit. At the ene of October 2005 they claimed they killed him, so at the very least he was still free with only 2 months left in 2005. You know this, of course, because your own link admits there are many Baghdadis!!!

WebCite query result

US launches airstrike near Syrian border

10/26/2005 18:48

A US warplane struck a suspected insurgent safe house near the Syrian border Wednesday and may have killed a senior al-Qaida in Iraq figure who assisted in smuggling Syrian and Saudi fighters into Iraq, the US military said. A military statement did not give details of the airstrike. But it said intelligence sources indicated that the al-Qaida member, identified only as Abu Dua, was inside the house at the time of the attack. His body has not been recovered, the military said. Abu Dua was part of a network that included al-Qaida figures in a network of towns along the Syrian border northwest of Baghdad, the statement added.

Iran is vowing to end terrorism in Iraq. What do you think their rules of engagement are going to be?

I digress. back to Baghdadi. If he's dead like old Eddie is claiming why would America still have a 10 million dollar bounty on his head. And it is only speculation that there are several commanders using the same name. No proof whatsoever. And that is completely countered by other claims of one man leading this army of terrorists.

Sorry Eddie to burst your left wing bubble....

He was taken as a prisoner of the Americans in Camp Bucca between 2005 and 2007

First of all, it is the government who claims they blew him to bits at the end of October 2005, so many bits they could not find his body!!!

By the same token, if he was captured in 2005, why was the government still trying to kill him at the end of 2005????? He was obviously still at large on October 26, 2005.

Obviously the guy captured in 2005 and the guy with a $10 million bounty on his head are not the same guy!!!

 

[tinydancer]

Iranian Forces now in Iraq fighting radical islamist ISIS. You know its a messed up world when the Iranians are the good guys.

Iran Deploys Forces to Fight Militants in Iraq - WSJ

Report: Iranian Troops Already Battling Terrorists Inside Iraq | The Daily Caller

Wow. Obama has ignored all the pleas for help for over a year and now Iran is coming to Iraq's aid?

Unreal. Just unfreaking real.

Once again for the slow readers:

Iraq refused a SOFA. Look it up.

Maliki invited the Iranian Revolutionary Guard to Iraq. Why? Because he and his government are Shiites and so are the Iranians.

Obama was so hell bent for leather to bail out of Iraq he never negotiated to continue to keep a stabilizing force.

Yes the Iraq government has great ties with Iran. Of course they do. But Iraq has been begging the US since last year to please please please help them with ISIS and Levant.

Obama refused. I'm beginning to think he has a genuine hard on against Shiites.

 

[tinydancer]

Have fun fellow posters. Calling it a day.

 

[Politico]

The terrorists are now marching on Bagdad. The Iraq government is asking for help, should we oblige?
Seems strange to me that we would spend all the money & lives just to let it fall in a matter of weeks/months.

This happens when you seek to only end wars and not finish them.

And this is the lesson of Viet Nam we STILL haven't learned.

Describe what that finished war would look like, and how we would get there.

How many more dead Americans did you want to expend? How much more money? How many more years?

There was no way we were going to stay in a country without a SOFA. We demand it and get it from every country we are in, in order to protect our troops. The Iraqi 'government' refused.

This country would never allow it. Would you put up with American soldiers being judged by Iraqis using Sharia Law? Obama won't. And Bush wouldn't.

So STFU.

If we're going to discuss this at least have the facts straight. Afghanistan was the one who flat out refused the SOFA. Obama never pressed Maliki. Instead he took advantage of the pull out agreement already in place from the prior administration. He brought them home and claimed it was his idea.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Funny the left here calls me an uninformed goper because I call the aggressors terrorists. Obama JUST NOW in a pressor called them.......... TERRORISTS

 

[LogikAndReazon]

Just think of the social programs and infrastructure projects that could have been invested in here at home instead of wasted on the greedy military industrial complex....

Lol

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Just think of the social programs and infrastructure projects that could have been invested in here at home instead of wasted on the greedy military industrial complex....

Lol

That is quite funny as we don't need anymore "social" programs. And infrastructure is typically a local issue

 

[Steinlight]

I missed him the day we invaded. I wanted us to reconcile with him and put up a united front against Iran.



Ok, so far, so good.



...and now you've gone full retard.

Obama didn't arm the Syrian rebels, like John McCain wanted him to.

Wow, I thought this was common knowledge that US was arming rebels(which are primarily Islamic Radicals like Al Nusrah and ISIS. I guess the average American is in fact more retarded than I thought. The fact that someone so incredibly misinformed can have the right to vote is a fucking tragedy. Seriously go sit in the corner with your cyber dunce cap.



CIA begins weapons delivery to Syrian rebels - The Washington Post

Syrian rebels seen firing U.S.-made weapons raises questions - TIME

US reportedly starts supplying Syrian rebels with anti-tank weapons ? RT USA

U.S., Britain suspend aid to north Syria after Islamists seize weapons store | Reuters


The Islamic State of Iraq and Greater Syria: Two Arab countries fall apart | The Economist

U.S. providing some lethal aid to Syrian rebels: opposition spokesman | Reuters

» Susan Rice Admits U.S. Giving Arms to Al-Qaeda in Syria Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!

Honestly, stick to talking about how evil the Tea Party is or how guns are bad. You are out of your depth on foreign policy issues

So covert? If Susan Rice has to admit it, then it wasn't an announced policy, as I said.

From your first link:


‘It’s better than nothing’


While the State Department is coordinating nonlethal aid, the CIA is overseeing the delivery of weaponry and other lethal equipment to the rebels. An opposition official, speaking on the condition of anonymity to discuss covert arms transfers, said U.S. intelligence personnel have begun delivering long-promised light weapons and ammunition to rebel groups in the past couple of weeks.



The weaponry “doesn’t solve all the needs the guys have, but it’s better than nothing,” the opposition official said. He added that Washington remains reluctant to give the rebels what they most desire: antitank and antiaircraft weapons.

Glad you admit you were wrong and you admit they are giving weapons to Islamists. And glad you have the ability to click on a link, now click on the other links and you can learn about the heavy weaponry they were providing to Islamists as well. Even moderate forces admit that most of their weapons end up in the hands of Islamists, and that they are commanded by US/Saudi intelligence to do so. US Intelligence understands Islamists make up the most effective and largest contingent of rebels and don't want our weapons going to waste. They really made a deal with the devil to take out Assad.

You are making progress yet. You are not as big of a retard as I previously thought.

Covert? Who said anything about covert ? Its been so obvious and out in the open to anyone that bothers to look into the issue it is a wonder it took Susan Rice till a couple days ago to admit it. And it was a wonder it took until September 2013 for Wash Post to admit it it was going on long before that. Business Insider did a story in Spring 2013 where unnamed US officials admitted most of the weapons the CIA have bought/transferred are going to Islamists.
http://www.businessinsider.com/cia-weapons-going-to-jihadists-in-syria-2013-3

 

[Synthaholic]

What about the Iraq Liberation Act?

Iraq Liberation Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Weren't you concerned about Saddam when Clinton signed this into law?

No. Saddam was no more deserving of being toppled than Mubarak, Assad (Sr.), Gaddafi, or any other Middle East strongman. NeoCons who wanted access to those oil fields made him out to be Satan incarnate.

Obama wanted all those other leaders gone. And he pushed to get rid of Mubarak and replace him with Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood.

Thank heavens Egyptians came to their senses and tossed him. Libya is run by militias now that Obama forced Gaddafi out. It's a dog's breakfast.

He's still bitching like crazy over Assad and has tried every which way but loose to bump him from power.

And most recently he backed the coup in Ukraine to force a duly elected leader and government from power.

So why not Saddam?

Just curious.

If all you are going to do is lie, I'm just going to ignore your posts.

He never pushed for anything other than democratic elections in Egypt. Which is what Bush always claimed was his goal: bringing democracy to the Middle East.

Sometimes the people vote for leaders who we don't like. Too bad.

 

[Synthaholic]

According to articles I've read 90,000 Iraqi Troops deserted. If they refuse to fight for their own country even after we've armed them, then they are hopeless..............

Hopefully some of them will have enough back bone to fight back, but so far it doesn't appear so.

More info has come out.

Shiite government forces have quit in some areas because they won't defend Sunni neighborhoods against these forces. And Iraq, obviously, is full of Sunni neighborhoods.

 

[Synthaholic]

He was taken as a prisoner of the Americans in Camp Bucca between 2005 and 2009 - it was here that one of the only two photos know to be in existence was taken of him.

'We either arrested or killed a man of that name about half a dozen times, he is like a wraith who keeps reappearing, and I am not sure where fact and fiction meet,' said Lieutenant-General Sir Graeme Lamb, a former British special forces commander who helped US efforts against al-Qaeda in Iraq told The Telegraph.

'There are those who want to promote the idea that this man is invincible, when it may actually be several people using the same nom de guerre.'

His capture in 2005 is pure bullshit. At the ene of October 2005 they claimed they killed him, so at the very least he was still free with only 2 months left in 2005. You know this, of course, because your own link admits there are many Baghdadis!!!

WebCite query result

US launches airstrike near Syrian border

10/26/2005 18:48

A US warplane struck a suspected insurgent safe house near the Syrian border Wednesday and may have killed a senior al-Qaida in Iraq figure who assisted in smuggling Syrian and Saudi fighters into Iraq, the US military said. A military statement did not give details of the airstrike. But it said intelligence sources indicated that the al-Qaida member, identified only as Abu Dua, was inside the house at the time of the attack. His body has not been recovered, the military said. Abu Dua was part of a network that included al-Qaida figures in a network of towns along the Syrian border northwest of Baghdad, the statement added.

Iran is vowing to end terrorism in Iraq. What do you think their rules of engagement are going to be?

I digress. back to Baghdadi. If he's dead like old Eddie is claiming why would America still have a 10 million dollar bounty on his head. And it is only speculation that there are several commanders using the same name. No proof whatsoever. And that is completely countered by other claims of one man leading this army of terrorists.

Sorry Eddie to burst your left wing bubble....

He was taken as a prisoner of the Americans in Camp Bucca between 2005 and 2007

First of all, it is the government who claims they blew him to bits at the end of October 2005, so many bits they could not find his body!!!

By the same token, if he was captured in 2005, why was the government still trying to kill him at the end of 2005????? He was obviously still at large on October 26, 2005.

Obviously the guy captured in 2005 and the guy with a $10 million bounty on his head are not the same guy!!!

All Muslims look alike to tinydancer.

 

[Steinlight]

An article by Haaretz, talking about the US shipping anti-tank missiles to these Islamist Syrian rebels. No doubt these arms are being used in the Iraq unrest right now as well.
U.S. ups aid to Syrian rebels, sending them missiles and guns - Diplomacy and Defense Israel News | Haaretz

 

[candycorn]

The terrorists are now marching on Bagdad. The Iraq government is asking for help, should we oblige?
Seems strange to me that we would spend all the money & lives just to let it fall in a matter of weeks/months.

Wash the hands.

 

[Synthaholic]

Wow. Obama has ignored all the pleas for help for over a year and now Iran is coming to Iraq's aid?

Unreal. Just unfreaking real.

Once again for the slow readers:

Iraq refused a SOFA. Look it up.

Maliki invited the Iranian Revolutionary Guard to Iraq. Why? Because he and his government are Shiites and so are the Iranians.

Obama was so hell bent for leather to bail out of Iraq he never negotiated to continue to keep a stabilizing force.

Another lie.

Yes the Iraq government has great ties with Iran. Of course they do. But Iraq has been begging the US since last year to please please please help them with ISIS and Levant.

Yes, they want our help but refuse legal protection for our troops.

It's a non-starter.

 

[Synthaholic]

Just think of the social programs and infrastructure projects that could have been invested in here at home instead of wasted on the greedy military industrial complex....

Lol

Thank you for re-stating what Liberals have been saying for over 10 years.

 

[JimH52]

No, we cannot let ISIS take Iraq. They will not stop there. They are the most ruthless terrorist group and are even shunned by many Al-Qaeda affiliates. They are brutal and cut throat. We use drones to take out their convoys and we supply intelligence to the Iraq government. If these people are allowed to continue, they could be standing on our doorstep in the near future.

 

[Synthaholic]

Wow, I thought this was common knowledge that US was arming rebels(which are primarily Islamic Radicals like Al Nusrah and ISIS. I guess the average American is in fact more retarded than I thought. The fact that someone so incredibly misinformed can have the right to vote is a fucking tragedy. Seriously go sit in the corner with your cyber dunce cap.



CIA begins weapons delivery to Syrian rebels - The Washington Post

Syrian rebels seen firing U.S.-made weapons raises questions - TIME

US reportedly starts supplying Syrian rebels with anti-tank weapons ? RT USA

U.S., Britain suspend aid to north Syria after Islamists seize weapons store | Reuters


The Islamic State of Iraq and Greater Syria: Two Arab countries fall apart | The Economist

U.S. providing some lethal aid to Syrian rebels: opposition spokesman | Reuters

» Susan Rice Admits U.S. Giving Arms to Al-Qaeda in Syria Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!

Honestly, stick to talking about how evil the Tea Party is or how guns are bad. You are out of your depth on foreign policy issues

So covert? If Susan Rice has to admit it, then it wasn't an announced policy, as I said.

From your first link:


‘It’s better than nothing’


While the State Department is coordinating nonlethal aid, the CIA is overseeing the delivery of weaponry and other lethal equipment to the rebels. An opposition official, speaking on the condition of anonymity to discuss covert arms transfers, said U.S. intelligence personnel have begun delivering long-promised light weapons and ammunition to rebel groups in the past couple of weeks.



The weaponry “doesn’t solve all the needs the guys have, but it’s better than nothing,” the opposition official said. He added that Washington remains reluctant to give the rebels what they most desire: antitank and antiaircraft weapons.

Glad you admit you were wrong and you admit they are giving weapons to Islamists. And glad you have the ability to click on a link, now click on the other links and you can learn about the heavy weaponry they were providing to Islamists as well. Even moderate forces admit that most of their weapons end up in the hands of Islamists, and that they are commanded by US/Saudi intelligence to do so. US Intelligence understands Islamists make up the most effective and largest contingent of rebels and don't want our weapons going to waste. They really made a deal with the devil to take out Assad.

You are making progress yet. You are not as big of a retard as I previously thought.

Covert? Who said anything about covert ? Its been so obvious and out in the open to anyone that bothers to look into the issue it is a wonder it took Susan Rice till a couple days ago to admit it. And it was a wonder it took until September 2013 for Wash Post to admit it it was going on long before that. Business Insider did a story in Spring 2013 where unnamed US officials admitted most of the weapons the CIA have bought/transferred are going to Islamists.
CIA Weapons Going To Jihadists in Syria - Business Insider

Your own link, which I quoted!

 

[BlindBoo]

The terrorists are now marching on Bagdad. The Iraq government is asking for help, should we oblige?
Seems strange to me that we would spend all the money & lives just to let it fall in a matter of weeks/months.

If Bush and CHeney had actually listened to those generals they were so fond of referring to, they would have been told just that.

If Obama had listened to those Generals this could have been prevented. A small special ops force to continue training the Iraqi Army and provide intel to them.

I can hear Joe Biden now when Obama sent him to Iraq to ask for a status of forces agreement allowing that to happen. "You guys don't want the US to keep any troops in Iraq, do you?" "Didn't think so."

The US has kept a military presence in So Korea, Japan, and Germany after major wars. Why not Iraq, if for no other reason than to keep the price of oil stable?

But ultimately, the Iraqis did insist that a new SOFA had to go through their parliament and they would not budge on the immunities issue, which made an extension of U.S. forces there impossible, Jeffrey said. He said the insistence on immunity was uniform inside the Obama administration.

Obama?s Iraq ambassador: I wanted troops to remain in Iraq

 

[Synthaholic]

Awesome! Re-live all the lies and ignorance of John McCain in a series of past clips.

Why anyone still pays McCain any attention is beyond me.


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASw7tXSBaLc#t=343]Chris Hayes: Senator McCain DESTROYS John McCAIN on IRAQ!!! Oops? Alzheimer's? - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Steinlight]

So covert? If Susan Rice has to admit it, then it wasn't an announced policy, as I said.

From your first link:


‘It’s better than nothing’


While the State Department is coordinating nonlethal aid, the CIA is overseeing the delivery of weaponry and other lethal equipment to the rebels. An opposition official, speaking on the condition of anonymity to discuss covert arms transfers, said U.S. intelligence personnel have begun delivering long-promised light weapons and ammunition to rebel groups in the past couple of weeks.



The weaponry “doesn’t solve all the needs the guys have, but it’s better than nothing,” the opposition official said. He added that Washington remains reluctant to give the rebels what they most desire: antitank and antiaircraft weapons.

Glad you admit you were wrong and you admit they are giving weapons to Islamists. And glad you have the ability to click on a link, now click on the other links and you can learn about the heavy weaponry they were providing to Islamists as well. Even moderate forces admit that most of their weapons end up in the hands of Islamists, and that they are commanded by US/Saudi intelligence to do so. US Intelligence understands Islamists make up the most effective and largest contingent of rebels and don't want our weapons going to waste. They really made a deal with the devil to take out Assad.

You are making progress yet. You are not as big of a retard as I previously thought.

Covert? Who said anything about covert ? Its been so obvious and out in the open to anyone that bothers to look into the issue it is a wonder it took Susan Rice till a couple days ago to admit it. And it was a wonder it took until September 2013 for Wash Post to admit it it was going on long before that. Business Insider did a story in Spring 2013 where unnamed US officials admitted most of the weapons the CIA have bought/transferred are going to Islamists.
CIA Weapons Going To Jihadists in Syria - Business Insider

Your own link, which I quoted!

OK, I got you, well it wasn't covert we were giving weapons to Islamists by the time the Wash Post got to it, and as the Business Insider article shows, Wash Post was about half a year late to the game on breaking that story.