Debate Now (Invite Only) Limits on Federal Authority to police mass public lawlessness

[flacaltenn]

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Invite List Below.
Shelzin
westwall
Sun Devil 92
katsteve2012
Mac1958
NewsVine_Mariyam
WinterBorn
Tom Paine 1949
OldLady
FA_Q2
K9Buck
The Professor

Lets try something more specific and timely.. Note that this format is available to ALL members.. I'm trying to build "smaller communities" here, not just trying to spam you.. LOL..

It's an election year.. Probably has everything to do with the restlessness and chaos on the streets and maybe in the White House.. Trump announced his intentions "to do something about it" last week.. Now we see a little "toe dipping" by limiting the Federal interventions to the arguably smart protection of FEDERAL assets, personnel, property in cities that refuse to quell the street rebellions..

Trump plans to send federal authorities into cities to break up ‘war zone’ of violence

President Trump is planning to direct federal law enforcement “help” for Democratic-run cities that have seen a rise in violence this summer, calling them “war zones.”

www.washingtontimes.com

I do believe there is a requirement to protect the expansive and expensive Federal infrastructure scattered from coast to coast and Guam and Puerto Rico... There are IRS, Social Security, Federal courthouses, Passport offices, EPA, Dept of Ag, FBI, dams, power, and scad more pieces of this behemoth presence all about.. Would be stupid and criminal to ALLOW them to be attacked, damaged, and the lives of those people threatened..

But at SOME point, setting loose the Marshalls, the DHS security, Treasury Agents and all the other Federal policing functions in these cities that have called them "armies" or invaders is gonna light up a major conflict.. How FAR should this go?

We could also include the Federal responsibilities and powers to establish any kind of "national policing".. This would be the diff between (EG) having DOJ layout some GUIDELINES -- all the way to ACTIVE Federal involvement in local/state policing actions..

 

[flacaltenn]

Guess this just broke today...

Trump expected to send new federal force to Chicago this week to battle violence, but plan’s full scope is a question mark

The U.S. Department of Homeland Security is crafting plans to deploy about 150 federal agents to Chicago this week, the Chicago Tribune has learned, a move that would come amid growing controversy nationally about federal force being used in American cities.

www.chicagotribune.com

The Homeland Security Investigations, or HSI, agents are set to assist other federal law enforcement and Chicago police in crime-fighting efforts, according to sources familiar with the matter, though a specific plan on what the agents will be doing — and what their limits would be — had not been made public.

That statement in itself is more than a bit scary...

 

[Shelzin]

Ahh... it's too late... I'll be here tomorrow. Place holder post to make sure that happens.

 

[Shelzin]

But at SOME point, setting loose the Marshalls, the DHS security, Treasury Agents and all the other Federal policing functions in these cities that have called them "armies" or invaders is gonna light up a major conflict.. How FAR should this go?

I don't believe they should do it. By they, I mean the federal government should just cut off all funding and let the Rioters do what they want. Let them burn down their own shit if their own elected officials support them doing so. I don't have a problem with that. Those people in Portland for example, move out or stay... Whatever... You are on your own. You elected your Mayor/Governor. This is what you get when you elected this person.

It has come to the place where the only way to prove to these people that they are on the wrong path, is to let them walk it.

We could also include the Federal responsibilities and powers to establish any kind of "national policing".. This would be the diff between (EG) having DOJ layout some GUIDELINES -- all the way to ACTIVE Federal involvement in local/state policing actions..

We already have that... Right to bare arms... I don't live in a big city. I never will... However if there are a group of lunatics attacking a federal/state building in my town and the local/state officials say let it happen... I will kill them myself. I won't be the only one there making sure it happens.

That's reality. I don't know what kind of people who live in Portland, but they aren't my kind of people if they allow others to destroy that which you've paid for. If you destroy that building, then my taxes go to rebuild it. All because you don't know how to peaceably protest.. Fine... We all make our choices and live with them. Well... Some won't.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Thanks for the invite. A suggestion: use the “@name” flacaltenn form when inviting people in future. I didn’t see this invite until just now, and probably neither did others you invited. Cheers.

 

[flacaltenn]

Thanks for the invite. A suggestion: use the “@name” flacaltenn form when inviting people in future. I didn’t see this invite until just now, and probably neither did others you invited. Cheers.

Oh but I did.. The underlines with the names in post #1 show they were linked.. That's what happens automatically when you post.. For the interest of moderation, check your alert list for Monday the 20th, or possibly Tues depending on your time zone. If it's not there, PM me..

 

[flacaltenn]

I don't believe they should do it. By they, I mean the federal government should just cut off all funding and let the Rioters do what they want. Let them burn down their own shit if their own elected officials support them doing so. I don't have a problem with that. Those people in Portland for example, move out or stay... Whatever... You are on your own. You elected your Mayor/Governor. This is what you get when you elected this person.

It has come to the place where the only way to prove to these people that they are on the wrong path, is to let them walk it.

That was my gut emotional position on this at first glance and actually still is.. But analytically, it's different. Got to suppress the urge to make it just "a teachable moment"..

If there is not some effort to oppose the targeting of Federal personnel and infrastructure by anarchists taking advantage of the situation -- any escalation or exporting of this to OTHER regions would be tantamount to SUCCESSION.. Makes it not much different than the reasoning of the Confed rebels in S. Carolina not wanting the Fed authority to protect or reinforce Ft. Sumter...

The problem is, our "teachable moment" only works in a society where the MEDIA and arguably "the party in resistance" isn't COMPLICIT in lying about this being a form of peaceful protest and REFUSE to even discuss the impact of over SIXTY nights of rioting in the streets. Won't SHOW the violence and willful destruction..

I'm not ENGAGING in this war personally like you advocated, because the media has conflated issues in cities that WE are not affected by -- just to broaden and deepen the number of fronts that the partisan war is now fought on.. So, we say it doesn't affect US -- that's correct. But watching the media and SOME political leadership cheering it on -- it WILL resemble seccession at some point..

But I would join the war if it came to my state or community...

 

[Shelzin]

That was my gut emotional position on this at first glance and actually still is.. But analytically, it's different. Got to suppress the urge to make it just "a teachable moment"..

If their parents would have done a better job we would't have to.

If there is not some effort to oppose the targeting of Federal personnel and infrastructure by anarchists taking advantage of the situation -- any escalation or exporting of this to OTHER regions would be tantamount to SUCCESSION.. Makes it not much different than the reasoning of the Confed rebels in S. Carolina not wanting the Fed authority to protect or reinforce Ft. Sumter...

If they could actually pull that off... I agree. As I've said I'm willing. I don't want to, but I'm willing to help put that down... Here... At my home. Where I live. Where my taxes go. Portland, Chicago, Seattle, and Philadelphia are not my problem. That is, I'm not putting my life on the line for someplace that isn't my home.

Not at this point at any rate. Maybe in the future.

The problem is, our "teachable moment" only works in a society where the MEDIA and arguably "the party in resistance" isn't COMPLICIT in lying about this being a form of peaceful protest and REFUSE to even discuss the impact of over SIXTY nights of rioting in the streets. Won't SHOW the violence and willful destruction..

I can't make the Media do their jobs. Wish I could... Problem is in order to do that we would have to actually take over the stations, which... The government can't do. And I absolutely believe that the government SHOULD not have the ability to do that anyway.

However... I have been thinking about various restrictions to be placed on them... Not in what they say, but... By who can own them. I think it's a conflict of interest for any company that sells products to be able to promote itself as a news station. Swaying elections and public opinion based on their own company policies to try to make more money seems like a good way to throw a country down a toilet bowl.

Think about it... Almost every single major media outlet here in the US is trying like hell to make it into the Chinese market... It's way too big of a market not for them hit hit their knees and start sucking that golf ball through a garden hose.

Amazon, Disney, Paramount pictures... They all have big time projects that get sent to China that make hundreds of millions of dollars a year... Each... They don't want to put China in a bad light, because China tells them that they aren't going to put them in a bad light. Well, here... Let me get a link for that really quick. Just to show who owns what real quick...

These are also the people that own our media. So of course they are going to make sure one side of their business, doesn't hurt the other side of their business.

The 6 Companies That Own (Almost) All Media [INFOGRAPHIC]

This infographic shows you how six companies control (almost) all media options in the US.

www.webfx.com

I'm not ENGAGING in this war personally like you advocated, because the media has conflated issues in cities that WE are not affected by -- just to broaden and deepen the number of fronts that the partisan war is now fought on.. So, we say it doesn't affect US -- that's correct. But watching the media and SOME political leadership cheering it on -- it WILL resemble seccession at some point..

But I would join the war if it came to my state or community...

OH ... Yeah.. I absolutely agree. Addressed that above. It would not surprise me one bit of funds aren't funneled into some pockets of these politicians from China.

 

[OldLady]

This is an Invite Only thread. If your member name does not appear in the alert call list -- DO NOT POST HERE -- do not even use the rating buttons on posts in this thread.

Refer to Invite Only Rules posted here ====

Debate Now - Trial for "Invite Only" threads in Structured Debate Forum

We are opening the Invite Only threads in this forum. You may continue to post threads under the OLD structured debate rules OR identify the thread as Invite Only as given in the auxiliary rules below.. READ THEM CAREFULLY. There have been a couple edits since the Announcement of the feature...

www.usmessageboard.com

Invite List Below.
Shelzin
westwall
Sun Devil 92
katsteve2012
Mac1958
NewsVine_Mariyam
WinterBorn
Tom Paine 1949
OldLady
FA_Q2
K9Buck
The Professor

Lets try something more specific and timely.. Note that this format is available to ALL members.. I'm trying to build "smaller communities" here, not just trying to spam you.. LOL..

It's an election year.. Probably has everything to do with the restlessness and chaos on the streets and maybe in the White House.. Trump announced his intentions "to do something about it" last week.. Now we see a little "toe dipping" by limiting the Federal interventions to the arguably smart protection of FEDERAL assets, personnel, property in cities that refuse to quell the street rebellions..

Trump plans to send federal authorities into cities to break up ‘war zone’ of violence

President Trump is planning to direct federal law enforcement “help” for Democratic-run cities that have seen a rise in violence this summer, calling them “war zones.”

www.washingtontimes.com

I do believe there is a requirement to protect the expansive and expensive Federal infrastructure scattered from coast to coast and Guam and Puerto Rico... There are IRS, Social Security, Federal courthouses, Passport offices, EPA, Dept of Ag, FBI, dams, power, and scad more pieces of this behemoth presence all about.. Would be stupid and criminal to ALLOW them to be attacked, damaged, and the lives of those people threatened..

But at SOME point, setting loose the Marshalls, the DHS security, Treasury Agents and all the other Federal policing functions in these cities that have called them "armies" or invaders is gonna light up a major conflict.. How FAR should this go?

We could also include the Federal responsibilities and powers to establish any kind of "national policing".. This would be the diff between (EG) having DOJ layout some GUIDELINES -- all the way to ACTIVE Federal involvement in local/state policing actions..

I was just made aware a couple days ago that there is a structure to this unrest. The guy in the vids is an activist, obviously, but he lays out an informative argument. What I really liked about it was putting this thing into a framework I could use to make sense of what in hell the protesters are doing. And perhaps why some cities have shied from taking a heavy handed approach.









The manuals
https://fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm3-24.pdf

https://www.rand.org/content/dam/ran...ND_RR291z1.pdf

It's going to take you close to an hour to listen to all these, but I found it worth it. It's another country heard from, so to speak. Don't know who he is -- calls himself Beau.

 

[OldLady]

Thanks for the invite. A suggestion: use the “@name” flacaltenn form when inviting people in future. I didn’t see this invite until just now, and probably neither did others you invited. Cheers.

Oh but I did.. The underlines with the names in post #1 show they were linked.. That's what happens automatically when you post.. For the interest of moderation, check your alert list for Monday the 20th, or possibly Tues depending on your time zone. If it's not there, PM me..

Well, I didn't get one either. Twice now I didn't.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

That was my gut emotional position on this at first glance and actually still is.. But analytically, it's different. Got to suppress the urge to make it just "a teachable moment"..

If their parents would have done a better job we would't have to.

If there is not some effort to oppose the targeting of Federal personnel and infrastructure by anarchists taking advantage of the situation -- any escalation or exporting of this to OTHER regions would be tantamount to SUCCESSION.. Makes it not much different than the reasoning of the Confed rebels in S. Carolina not wanting the Fed authority to protect or reinforce Ft. Sumter...

If they could actually pull that off... I agree. As I've said I'm willing. I don't want to, but I'm willing to help put that down... Here... At my home. Where I live. Where my taxes go. Portland, Chicago, Seattle, and Philadelphia are not my problem. That is, I'm not putting my life on the line for someplace that isn't my home.

Not at this point at any rate. Maybe in the future.

The problem is, our "teachable moment" only works in a society where the MEDIA and arguably "the party in resistance" isn't COMPLICIT in lying about this being a form of peaceful protest and REFUSE to even discuss the impact of over SIXTY nights of rioting in the streets. Won't SHOW the violence and willful destruction..

I can't make the Media do their jobs. Wish I could... Problem is in order to do that we would have to actually take over the stations, which... The government can't do. And I absolutely believe that the government SHOULD not have the ability to do that anyway.

However... I have been thinking about various restrictions to be placed on them... Not in what they say, but... By who can own them. I think it's a conflict of interest for any company that sells products to be able to promote itself as a news station. Swaying elections and public opinion based on their own company policies to try to make more money seems like a good way to throw a country down a toilet bowl.

Think about it... Almost every single major media outlet here in the US is trying like hell to make it into the Chinese market... It's way too big of a market not for them hit hit their knees and start sucking that golf ball through a garden hose.

Amazon, Disney, Paramount pictures... They all have big time projects that get sent to China that make hundreds of millions of dollars a year... Each... They don't want to put China in a bad light, because China tells them that they aren't going to put them in a bad light. Well, here... Let me get a link for that really quick. Just to show who owns what real quick...

These are also the people that own our media. So of course they are going to make sure one side of their business, doesn't hurt the other side of their business.

The 6 Companies That Own (Almost) All Media [INFOGRAPHIC]

This infographic shows you how six companies control (almost) all media options in the US.

www.webfx.com

I'm not ENGAGING in this war personally like you advocated, because the media has conflated issues in cities that WE are not affected by -- just to broaden and deepen the number of fronts that the partisan war is now fought on.. So, we say it doesn't affect US -- that's correct. But watching the media and SOME political leadership cheering it on -- it WILL resemble seccession at some point..

But I would join the war if it came to my state or community...

OH ... Yeah.. I absolutely agree. Addressed that above. It would not surprise me one bit of funds aren't funneled into some pockets of these politicians from China.

There really isn’t any way I can jump into this discussion. I experience too much cognitive dissonance listening to you two discuss your view of reality. I don’t want to be disrespectful, but I can’t even imagine what you are talking about half the time. Your “teachable moments,” your grandiose talk of “engaging in war” (or not) to defend your city but not others from the left anarchist tide, your analogies to secession, spreading Democratic Party or leftist insurrections, your childish analysis of the mass media and it’s supposed bias toward China — it is all to me utter madness. The ravings of unserious people who simplify reality to fit their inherited and ridiculous partisan prejudices, who are not aware of how real power and real money operate in the world.

 

[Shelzin]

I watched the first vid... It's been a day, I can't keep my concentration high enough to give this what it's due. I'll go through everything you posted and give my thoughts. But not tonight.

 

[OldLady]

That was my gut emotional position on this at first glance and actually still is.. But analytically, it's different. Got to suppress the urge to make it just "a teachable moment"..

If their parents would have done a better job we would't have to.

If there is not some effort to oppose the targeting of Federal personnel and infrastructure by anarchists taking advantage of the situation -- any escalation or exporting of this to OTHER regions would be tantamount to SUCCESSION.. Makes it not much different than the reasoning of the Confed rebels in S. Carolina not wanting the Fed authority to protect or reinforce Ft. Sumter...

If they could actually pull that off... I agree. As I've said I'm willing. I don't want to, but I'm willing to help put that down... Here... At my home. Where I live. Where my taxes go. Portland, Chicago, Seattle, and Philadelphia are not my problem. That is, I'm not putting my life on the line for someplace that isn't my home.

Not at this point at any rate. Maybe in the future.

The problem is, our "teachable moment" only works in a society where the MEDIA and arguably "the party in resistance" isn't COMPLICIT in lying about this being a form of peaceful protest and REFUSE to even discuss the impact of over SIXTY nights of rioting in the streets. Won't SHOW the violence and willful destruction..

I can't make the Media do their jobs. Wish I could... Problem is in order to do that we would have to actually take over the stations, which... The government can't do. And I absolutely believe that the government SHOULD not have the ability to do that anyway.

However... I have been thinking about various restrictions to be placed on them... Not in what they say, but... By who can own them. I think it's a conflict of interest for any company that sells products to be able to promote itself as a news station. Swaying elections and public opinion based on their own company policies to try to make more money seems like a good way to throw a country down a toilet bowl.

Think about it... Almost every single major media outlet here in the US is trying like hell to make it into the Chinese market... It's way too big of a market not for them hit hit their knees and start sucking that golf ball through a garden hose.

Amazon, Disney, Paramount pictures... They all have big time projects that get sent to China that make hundreds of millions of dollars a year... Each... They don't want to put China in a bad light, because China tells them that they aren't going to put them in a bad light. Well, here... Let me get a link for that really quick. Just to show who owns what real quick...

These are also the people that own our media. So of course they are going to make sure one side of their business, doesn't hurt the other side of their business.

The 6 Companies That Own (Almost) All Media [INFOGRAPHIC]

This infographic shows you how six companies control (almost) all media options in the US.

www.webfx.com

I'm not ENGAGING in this war personally like you advocated, because the media has conflated issues in cities that WE are not affected by -- just to broaden and deepen the number of fronts that the partisan war is now fought on.. So, we say it doesn't affect US -- that's correct. But watching the media and SOME political leadership cheering it on -- it WILL resemble seccession at some point..

But I would join the war if it came to my state or community...

OH ... Yeah.. I absolutely agree. Addressed that above. It would not surprise me one bit of funds aren't funneled into some pockets of these politicians from China.

There really isn’t any way I can jump into this discussion. I experience too much cognitive dissonance listening to you two discuss your view of reality. I don’t want to be disrespectful, but I can’t even imagine what you are talking about half the time. Your “teachable moments,” your grandiose talk of “engaging in war” (or not) to defend your city but not others from the left anarchist tide, your analogies to secession, spreading Democratic Party or leftist insurrections, your childish analysis of the mass media and it’s supposed bias toward China — it is all to me utter madness. The ravings of unserious people who simplify reality to fit their inherited and ridiculous partisan prejudices, who are not aware of how real power and money operates in the real world.

Now that you've got that off your chest, I wish you'd give it a shot, Tom Paine 1949 . Listen to Beau's vids and tell me what you think.

 

[Shelzin]

There really isn’t any way I can jump into this discussion. I experience too much cognitive dissonance listening to you two discuss your view of reality.

Isn't that the point of the structured part of the forum? To ask questions to one another and try to understand them?

I don’t want to be disrespectful,

I don't find it so.

but I can’t even imagine what you are talking about half the time. Your “teachable moments,” your grandiose talk of “engaging in war” (or not) to defend your city but not others from the left anarchist tide, your analogies to secession, spreading Democratic Party or leftist insurrections,

It's pretty simple really... I think we should allow them to make their mistakes and learn form them. That's the "teachable moments"... In which that's the only way some people learn. To be frank about it, it's the best way for ME to learn.

your childish analysis of the mass media and it’s supposed bias toward China — it is all to me utter madness.

Hmmm... I linked who owns what. I'm unsure how you don't make the connection. But honestly that's a little off base, tangent if you will, to this topic... So lets just ignore it. For now.

The ravings of unserious people who simplify reality to fit their inherited and ridiculous partisan prejudices, who are not aware of how real power and money operates in the real world.

I uhh... I'm on the same side I'm always on. I've been called both a Trumpster and a socialist on this forum. I am of course partisan, but it's not for the RNC or the DNC. It's for myself. I don't think you are taking this serious enough if you actually think I'm supporting any given party here.

You are certainly bringing your own bias to this at any rate.

 

[flacaltenn]

If they could actually pull that off... I agree. As I've said I'm willing. I don't want to, but I'm willing to help put that down... Here... At my home. Where I live. Where my taxes go. Portland, Chicago, Seattle, and Philadelphia are not my problem. That is, I'm not putting my life on the line for someplace that isn't my home.

It's the media trying to ENGAGE everyone in the problems of states/cities that they don't have any vested interest in.. Didn't ELECT anyone. Have no real business trying to impose culture, politics or values on them.. BUT -- insurrections targeted at FEDERAL infrastructure and personnel quickly BECOMES succession when the elected people THERE support it.. Because the 10th Amendment only defers to the states, what is NOT GRANTED to the Federal govt...

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Now that you've got that off your chest, I wish you'd give it a shot, @Tom Paine 1949 . Listen to Beau's vids and tell me what you think.

Listened to parts of all of them, maybe 25 minutes. Didn’t hear anything I didn’t know about Trump’s response being the opposite of normal tactics aimed at calming such situations. These folks in Portland weren’t armed, protests there were mostly just political theatre, and diminishing in scale, but Trump chose to stir the pot. We may not get out of this period without deadly shooting confrontations — but they probably won’t occur in liberal and white Portland.

Real race riots, or looting, or violent confrontations now will help Trump. He needs them. The BLM movement should not let itself be provoked into responding to Trump’s provocations with violence, or rallies that can be mistaken for attacks on federal office buildings. But given the nature of the situation and the lack of disciplined organization of the demonstrators, it is certainly possible that crowds will defend themselves against any federal police sweeps. Feds should stay inside buildings or right in front of them, local mayors are right to request this, and sue if necessary, and local police should stay calm. Where appropriate they should arrest any looters or serious criminal elements / provocateurs. Standard stuff.

The media is bad enough, with partisan political exaggeration on both sides, but the hysteria coming from some rightwing mass media and rightwing social media is pure lunacy. At least in my opinion.

 

[flacaltenn]

This is an Invite Only thread. If your member name does not appear in the alert call list -- DO NOT POST HERE -- do not even use the rating buttons on posts in this thread.

Refer to Invite Only Rules posted here ====

Debate Now - Trial for "Invite Only" threads in Structured Debate Forum

We are opening the Invite Only threads in this forum. You may continue to post threads under the OLD structured debate rules OR identify the thread as Invite Only as given in the auxiliary rules below.. READ THEM CAREFULLY. There have been a couple edits since the Announcement of the feature...

www.usmessageboard.com

Invite List Below.
Shelzin
westwall
Sun Devil 92
katsteve2012
Mac1958
NewsVine_Mariyam
WinterBorn
Tom Paine 1949
OldLady
FA_Q2
K9Buck
The Professor

Lets try something more specific and timely.. Note that this format is available to ALL members.. I'm trying to build "smaller communities" here, not just trying to spam you.. LOL..

It's an election year.. Probably has everything to do with the restlessness and chaos on the streets and maybe in the White House.. Trump announced his intentions "to do something about it" last week.. Now we see a little "toe dipping" by limiting the Federal interventions to the arguably smart protection of FEDERAL assets, personnel, property in cities that refuse to quell the street rebellions..

Trump plans to send federal authorities into cities to break up ‘war zone’ of violence

President Trump is planning to direct federal law enforcement “help” for Democratic-run cities that have seen a rise in violence this summer, calling them “war zones.”

www.washingtontimes.com

I do believe there is a requirement to protect the expansive and expensive Federal infrastructure scattered from coast to coast and Guam and Puerto Rico... There are IRS, Social Security, Federal courthouses, Passport offices, EPA, Dept of Ag, FBI, dams, power, and scad more pieces of this behemoth presence all about.. Would be stupid and criminal to ALLOW them to be attacked, damaged, and the lives of those people threatened..

But at SOME point, setting loose the Marshalls, the DHS security, Treasury Agents and all the other Federal policing functions in these cities that have called them "armies" or invaders is gonna light up a major conflict.. How FAR should this go?

We could also include the Federal responsibilities and powers to establish any kind of "national policing".. This would be the diff between (EG) having DOJ layout some GUIDELINES -- all the way to ACTIVE Federal involvement in local/state policing actions..

I was just made aware a couple days ago that there is a structure to this unrest. The guy in the vids is an activist, obviously, but he lays out an informative argument. What I really liked about it was putting this thing into a framework I could use to make sense of what in hell the protesters are doing. And perhaps why some cities have shied from taking a heavy handed approach.









The manuals
https://fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm3-24.pdf

https://www.rand.org/content/dam/ran...ND_RR291z1.pdf

It's going to take you close to an hour to listen to all these, but I found it worth it. It's another country heard from, so to speak. Don't know who he is -- calls himself Beau.

The fact that CONSTITUTIONALLY PRESCRIBED powers of the Fed govt to PROTECT their personal, offices, agencies, infrastructure are being carried out CAN NOT be blamed for the rebellious mobs getting mobs getting larger..

Just supports my observation that it looks more like the Confederate secession decision to attack Ft. Sumter.. So I'm NOT impressed with his first video.. I hope they get better, but he's missing the larger picture here.. If these mobs WANT insurrection, the longer they go unopposed, the more LIKELY that could that happen..

 

[flacaltenn]

That was my gut emotional position on this at first glance and actually still is.. But analytically, it's different. Got to suppress the urge to make it just "a teachable moment"..

If their parents would have done a better job we would't have to.

If there is not some effort to oppose the targeting of Federal personnel and infrastructure by anarchists taking advantage of the situation -- any escalation or exporting of this to OTHER regions would be tantamount to SUCCESSION.. Makes it not much different than the reasoning of the Confed rebels in S. Carolina not wanting the Fed authority to protect or reinforce Ft. Sumter...

If they could actually pull that off... I agree. As I've said I'm willing. I don't want to, but I'm willing to help put that down... Here... At my home. Where I live. Where my taxes go. Portland, Chicago, Seattle, and Philadelphia are not my problem. That is, I'm not putting my life on the line for someplace that isn't my home.

Not at this point at any rate. Maybe in the future.

The problem is, our "teachable moment" only works in a society where the MEDIA and arguably "the party in resistance" isn't COMPLICIT in lying about this being a form of peaceful protest and REFUSE to even discuss the impact of over SIXTY nights of rioting in the streets. Won't SHOW the violence and willful destruction..

I can't make the Media do their jobs. Wish I could... Problem is in order to do that we would have to actually take over the stations, which... The government can't do. And I absolutely believe that the government SHOULD not have the ability to do that anyway.

However... I have been thinking about various restrictions to be placed on them... Not in what they say, but... By who can own them. I think it's a conflict of interest for any company that sells products to be able to promote itself as a news station. Swaying elections and public opinion based on their own company policies to try to make more money seems like a good way to throw a country down a toilet bowl.

Think about it... Almost every single major media outlet here in the US is trying like hell to make it into the Chinese market... It's way too big of a market not for them hit hit their knees and start sucking that golf ball through a garden hose.

Amazon, Disney, Paramount pictures... They all have big time projects that get sent to China that make hundreds of millions of dollars a year... Each... They don't want to put China in a bad light, because China tells them that they aren't going to put them in a bad light. Well, here... Let me get a link for that really quick. Just to show who owns what real quick...

These are also the people that own our media. So of course they are going to make sure one side of their business, doesn't hurt the other side of their business.

The 6 Companies That Own (Almost) All Media [INFOGRAPHIC]

This infographic shows you how six companies control (almost) all media options in the US.

www.webfx.com

I'm not ENGAGING in this war personally like you advocated, because the media has conflated issues in cities that WE are not affected by -- just to broaden and deepen the number of fronts that the partisan war is now fought on.. So, we say it doesn't affect US -- that's correct. But watching the media and SOME political leadership cheering it on -- it WILL resemble seccession at some point..

But I would join the war if it came to my state or community...

OH ... Yeah.. I absolutely agree. Addressed that above. It would not surprise me one bit of funds aren't funneled into some pockets of these politicians from China.

There really isn’t any way I can jump into this discussion. I experience too much cognitive dissonance listening to you two discuss your view of reality. I don’t want to be disrespectful, but I can’t even imagine what you are talking about half the time. Your “teachable moments,” your grandiose talk of “engaging in war” (or not) to defend your city but not others from the left anarchist tide, your analogies to secession, spreading Democratic Party or leftist insurrections, your childish analysis of the mass media and it’s supposed bias toward China — it is all to me utter madness. The ravings of unserious people who simplify reality to fit their inherited and ridiculous partisan prejudices, who are not aware of how real power and real money operate in the world.

I think sitting in your Portland apartment inside these hot zones for 60 nights, with the tear gas waftting in, the sirens and the pyrotechnics, and your dog peeing and pooping on the carpet MIGHT just give a better sense of the seriousness here..

I never SAID anything about the Media and CHINA.. You SURE you're reading my posts and not something else.. The MEDIA has NOT SHOWN the 60 day violent siege going on in Portland. INSTEAD they are talking as if EVERYTHING is peaceful and fine and under control while the ANARCHIST mobs destroy businesses, lay seige to Federal buildings and commit arson, and deny the streets to business owners and residents..

There's a story in Breaking News that you OUGHT to read before you come back to accuse us again of OVER-reacting.. About a Portlandia radio host that been SUPPORTING these actions for weeks.. Until last night, when the Starbucks he lives above was vandalized and set fire to.. His apartment is now unlivable and the lefty NOW wants to consider buying a gun..

See if you think this proposition is "hysterical" or out of line after you read it..

 

[flacaltenn]

Listened to parts of all of them, maybe 25 minutes. Didn’t hear anything I didn’t know about Trump’s response being the opposite of normal tactics aimed at calming such situations. These folks in Portland weren’t armed, protests there were mostly just political theatre, and diminishing in scale, but Trump chose to stir the pot. We may not get out of this period without deadly shooting confrontations — but they probably won’t occur in liberal and white Portland.

Can that Federal Court House FUNCTION? You just OKey Dokey with denying justice and stopping it cold? How about the IRS/Soc Sec/Passport/FBI/EPA/ATF/Immigration properties and personnel? Should ALL those Federal functions be subject to arson, and blockading?

If the Fed Courthouse is DESTROYED because local authorities LET IT GET destroyed -- AND THAT IS the intention -- can the Feds withhold funding from portland/oregon to rebuild it?

BTW -- over a DOZEN Federal Officers have been injured and several hospitalized.. From high explosive fireworks and other means. You cool with that?

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

The fact that CONSTITUTIONALLY PRESCRIBED powers of the Fed govt to PROTECT their personal, offices, agencies, infrastructure are being carried out CAN NOT be blamed for the rebellious mobs getting mobs getting larger..

Just supports my observation that it looks more like the Confederate secession decision to attack Ft. Sumter.. So I'm NOT impressed with his first video.. I hope they get better, but he's missing the larger picture here.. If these mobs WANT insurrection, the longer they go unopposed, the more LIKELY that could that happen..

“Insurrections targeted at FEDERAL infrastructure and personnel quickly BECOMES secession ...”
“It looks more like the Confederate secession decision to attack Fort Sumter ...”

Has the Oregon National Guard or the Portland Police Department under the direction of its Democratic Mayor ... fired cannons at the federal courthouse?! Has a single Federal Building in the entire country been burned or even trashed? This is insane and partisan hyperbole. Positively shameful & hysterical comments.