Invention of the 'Palestinian' People

[Shusha]

The 85% of the land the UN states was owned by the population,

You have failed to demonstrate this. The reason you have failed to do this is because you have failed to differentiate between mulk, musha and miri land. And you have failed to demonstrate that there were no privately held lands owned by non-residents.

There is NO way that anyone would claim that 85% of the entire land of Palestine was privately owned, if one has read even the tiniest shred of facts about how the Ottoman Land system worked.

 

[montelatici]

The Anglo-American committee that undertook the Survey of Palestine on behalf of the UN, determined the ownership. What do you have?

 

[Hollie]

The Anglo-American committee that undertook the Survey of Palestine on behalf of the UN, determined the ownership. What do you have?

The Ottoman land records. They were the entity that controlled the land and collected taxes.

 

[montelatici]

Who cares, the Ottoman land records and subsequent transfers during the Mandate period were what the Anglo-American Committee scrutinized.

 

[Shusha]

The Anglo-American committee that undertook the Survey of Palestine on behalf of the UN, determined the ownership. What do you have?

You really should read your primary source materials.

Village Statistics 1945 (the source for your claims) shows that 48% of the land was "Arab-owned" BUT both miri land and land owned and held by absentee Arab land-owners was counted as being as "Arab-owned" land.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The Anglo-American committee that undertook the Survey of Palestine on behalf of the UN, determined the ownership. What do you have?

You really should read your primary source materials.

Village Statistics 1945 (the source for your claims) shows that 48% of the land was "Arab-owned" BUT both miri land and land owned and held by absentee Arab land-owners was counted as being as "Arab-owned" land.

It was not Jewish land. That is the point.

It was still all Palestinian land. Private ownership did not remove any land from the country.

 

[Challenger]

The Anglo-American committee that undertook the Survey of Palestine on behalf of the UN, determined the ownership. What do you have?

You really should read your primary source materials.

Village Statistics 1945 (the source for your claims) shows that 48% of the land was "Arab-owned" BUT both miri land and land owned and held by absentee Arab land-owners was counted as being as "Arab-owned" land.

You should really look up what's involved regarding "Mulk", "Miri", "Waqf" "Matruka", "Mewat" and "Musha", and while you are at it, look up "Tassruf", it's enlightening. Happy to help.

 

[Hollie]

Who cares, the Ottoman land records and subsequent transfers during the Mandate period were what the Anglo-American Committee scrutinized.

"Who cares". I can understand you're angry and frustrated that your cut and paste article is only of importance to you, but the fact remains, the Zottoman land records (the very people who controlled the land and collected taxes), are are more reliable source of data.

 

[Hollie]

The Anglo-American committee that undertook the Survey of Palestine on behalf of the UN, determined the ownership. What do you have?

You really should read your primary source materials.

Village Statistics 1945 (the source for your claims) shows that 48% of the land was "Arab-owned" BUT both miri land and land owned and held by absentee Arab land-owners was counted as being as "Arab-owned" land.

You should really look up what's involved regarding "Mulk", "Miri", "Waqf" "Matruka", "Mewat" and "Musha", and while you are at it, look up "Tassruf", it's enlightening. Happy to help.

You should look up Ottoman land records. It will help ease your befuddled condition. Happy to help.

 

[Phoenall]

The 85% of the land the UN states was owned by the population, referred to Palestinian Muslim and Christian ownership, as they were the population in question.

I am not discussing sovereignty. I am explaining to your friend Hollie, that Jews did not buy up all the land prior to taking it from the Palestinian Muslims and Christians after evicting them.

WRONG as 85% of the land was owned by absentee Ottoman landlords, not by the population, and there is nowhere you can find the U.N saying otherwise. And dont try and pass of your usual crap as official UN documents because they are in the UN archives

 

[Phoenall]

That absentee owned land was bought by the European Zionists, but it didn't amount to much as the UN confirmed. No more than 15%. And as the UN also confirmed:

"since the term "Arab" is to be interpreted as connoting not only the invaders from the Arabian Peninsula in the seventh century, but also the indigenous population which intermarried with the invaders and acquired their speech, customs and modes of thought in becoming permanently Arabized."

LINK ?

 

[Phoenall]

No, I am just stating what UN A/364 stated about the Arab population of Palestine. The absentee owner bullshit is Zionist propaganda. Just read Chapter II para. 364 of the UN partition plan.

"164. The Arab population, despite the strenuous efforts of Jews to acquire
land in Palestine, at present remains in possession of approximately 85 per
cent of the land."

Again, conflating Arab ownership with Palestinian ownership. And now conflating "possession" with ownership. (Which, still, of course, has nothing to do with sovereignty.)

If you want to convince me that the largest percentage of land was privately owned by Arab Palestinian residents in the Palestinian Mandate, as opposed to miri land or land owned by non-Palestinian residents -- show me a document which proves such. I'm all ears.

No, I am just stating what UN A/364 stated about the Arab population of Palestine. The absentee owner bullshit is Zionist propaganda. Just read Chapter II para. 364 of the UN partition plan.

"164. The Arab population, despite the strenuous efforts of Jews to acquire
land in Palestine, at present remains in possession of approximately 85 per
cent of the land."

Again, conflating Arab ownership with Palestinian ownership. And now conflating "possession" with ownership. (Which, still, of course, has nothing to do with sovereignty.)

If you want to convince me that the largest percentage of land was privately owned by Arab Palestinian residents in the Palestinian Mandate, as opposed to miri land or land owned by non-Palestinian residents -- show me a document which proves such. I'm all ears.

The UN was referring to the population of Palestine as the partition plan was being applied to Palestine. They are referring to the Arab Palestinian owners of 85% of the land. In fact, non-Jewish ownership exceeded 94%, not only the 85% owned by the Arab Palestinians was non-Jewish owned. See below:

View attachment 101872

The "other non Jews" will be the ottoman landlords then that owned 85% of the land

 

[Phoenall]

Who cares, the Ottoman land records and subsequent transfers during the Mandate period were what the Anglo-American Committee scrutinized.

"Who cares". I can understand you're angry and frustrated that your cut and paste article is only of importance to you, but the fact remains, the Zottoman land records (the very people who controlled the land and collected taxes), are are more reliable source of data.

Ask him for proof of this as the evidence shows they paid arab muslims to gather the data while they had a holiday

 

[Phoenall]

The Anglo-American committee that undertook the Survey of Palestine on behalf of the UN, determined the ownership. What do you have?

No they didnt as the evidence shows they employed arab muslims to do this for them

 

[Phoenall]

Who cares, the Ottoman land records and subsequent transfers during the Mandate period were what the Anglo-American Committee scrutinized.

LIAR

 

[Phoenall]

The Anglo-American committee that undertook the Survey of Palestine on behalf of the UN, determined the ownership. What do you have?

You really should read your primary source materials.

Village Statistics 1945 (the source for your claims) shows that 48% of the land was "Arab-owned" BUT both miri land and land owned and held by absentee Arab land-owners was counted as being as "Arab-owned" land.

It was not Jewish land. That is the point.

It was still all Palestinian land. Private ownership did not remove any land from the country.

International law of 1922 calls you a LIAR Want to prove it wrong ?

 

[Phoenall]

The Anglo-American committee that undertook the Survey of Palestine on behalf of the UN, determined the ownership. What do you have?

You really should read your primary source materials.

Village Statistics 1945 (the source for your claims) shows that 48% of the land was "Arab-owned" BUT both miri land and land owned and held by absentee Arab land-owners was counted as being as "Arab-owned" land.

It was not Jewish land. That is the point.

It was still all Palestinian land. Private ownership did not remove any land from the country.

When did it become a country and not a mandate then ?

 

[Shusha]

The Anglo-American committee that undertook the Survey of Palestine on behalf of the UN, determined the ownership. What do you have?

You really should read your primary source materials.

Village Statistics 1945 (the source for your claims) shows that 48% of the land was "Arab-owned" BUT both miri land and land owned and held by absentee Arab land-owners was counted as being as "Arab-owned" land.

It was not Jewish land. That is the point.

It was still all Palestinian land. Private ownership did not remove any land from the country.

Private ownership has nothing to do with sovereignty. There is no such thing as "Palestinian land". There is land which was State-owned and land that was privately owned by people of various ethnicities. The fact that the owner of a particular plot of land is Arab does not make his land sovereign Palestine land.

 

[montelatici]

There were only a handful of Jews in Palestine before the European Zionists arrived. Even after decades of invasion Jews represented no more than 10% of the population when the Mandate was established.

"The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews. In the following 30 years a few hundreds came to Palestine....."

https://unispal.un.org/DPA/DPR/unispal.nsf/0/349B02280A930813052565E90048ED1C


It does not matter whether the land was sovereign or not. The Covenant of the LON, article 22, stated clearly that the inhabitants were to be tutored towards self-determination. Clearly, the British neglected to provide tutelage to 90% of the inhabitants and provided it to recent arrivals from Europe and non-inhabitants still in Europe.

"ARTICLE 22.
To those colonies and territories which as a consequence of the late war have ceased to be under the sovereignty of the States which formerly governed them and which are inhabited by peoples not yet able to stand by themselves under the strenuous conditions of the modern world, there should be applied the principle that the well-being and development of such peoples form a sacred trust of civilisation and that securities for the performance of this trust should be embodied in this Covenant.

The best method of giving practical effect to this principle is that the tutelage of such peoples should be entrusted to advanced nations who by reason of their resources, their experience or their geographical position can best undertake this responsibility, and who are willing to accept it, and that this tutelage should be exercised by them as Mandatories on behalf of the League."

Avalon Project - The Covenant of the League of Nations

 

[Hollie]

There were only a handful of Jews in Palestine before the European Zionists arrived. Even after decades of invasion Jews represented no more than 10% of the population when the Mandate was established.

"The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews. In the following 30 years a few hundreds came to Palestine....."

Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations/Balfour Declaration text (30 July 1921)


It does not matter whether the land was sovereign or not. The Covenant of the LON, article 22, stated clearly that the inhabitants were to be tutored towards self-determination. Clearly, the British neglected to provide tutelage to 90% of the inhabitants and provided it to recent arrivals from Europe and non-inhabitants still in Europe.

"ARTICLE 22.
To those colonies and territories which as a consequence of the late war have ceased to be under the sovereignty of the States which formerly governed them and which are inhabited by peoples not yet able to stand by themselves under the strenuous conditions of the modern world, there should be applied the principle that the well-being and development of such peoples form a sacred trust of civilisation and that securities for the performance of this trust should be embodied in this Covenant.

The best method of giving practical effect to this principle is that the tutelage of such peoples should be entrusted to advanced nations who by reason of their resources, their experience or their geographical position can best undertake this responsibility, and who are willing to accept it, and that this tutelage should be exercised by them as Mandatories on behalf of the League."

Avalon Project - The Covenant of the League of Nations

What a rather pathetic example of Arab-Moslem incompetence and ineptitude. Decades later, Arabs-Moslems are still unable to take the steps necessary for self-determination. It's forever dealing with a child-like mentality. A collection of whiners who expect an entitlement to laziness and excuses for the train wreck that defines Arab-Moslem societal ills.