Interesting Tidbit On Student Loan Forgiveness

[Dadoalex]

I realize you think educated people are funny.
Morons think that way,

 

[Lisa558]

Society should educate everyone tuition-free because those people are the ones who will produce everything for society. Education is like defense. We spend hundreds of billions of dollars yearly on the military. It would cost maybe, at most, 200 billion to educate everyone in America from preschool to Ph.D. Education, including vocational job training, is vital to our national infrastructure and security. Without it, we don't have a country. Just like without the military or law enforcement, we don't have a society, we would collapse into chaos. Education is that important.

The majority of people in this country aren’t really what used to be termed “college material.” College has been dumbed down significantly since I went to college 40 years ago, and dumbed down even more than that from when my parents went 70 years ago.

No, what we need to do is get rid of all the woke shit taking up valuable classroom time and concentrate on providing a solid academic background, and then, in the final year of high school, divide into two tracks:

1) The 75% or so who are not college material, and put them on a vocational track of their choosing: plumbing, HVAC repair, construction, basic computer support, retail sales, etc.

2) The 25% or so who ARE college material and plan to major in a marketable career: engineering, architecture, accounting, teaching, and pre-med and pre-law, and so forth. The government will provide subsidized loans they can repay when they are earning good money from their careers.

 

[Vastator]

The majority of people in this country aren’t really what used to be termed “college material.” College has been dumbed down significantly since I went to college 40 years ago, and dumbed down even more than that from when my parents went 70 years ago.

No, what we need to do is get rid of all the woke shit taking up valuable classroom time and concentrate on providing a solid academic background, and then, in the final year of high school, divide into two tracks:

1) The 75% or so who are not college material, and put them on a vocational track of their choosing: plumbing, HVAC repair, construction, basic computer support, retail sales, etc.

2) The 25% or so who ARE college material and plan to major in a marketable career: engineering, architecture, accounting, teaching, and pre-med and pre-law, and so forth. The government will provide subsidized loans they can repay when they are earning good money from their careers.

Indeed. Like the guy in Caddy Shack said; "The world needs ditch diggers too"... And he's right. Truth be told probably at least half of today's High School Graduates haven't actually earned their diplomas, less still should they even consider going into debt for a College loan...

 

[Ralph Norton]

I realize you think educated people are funny.

No, I think that people who believe that having a piece of paper means that they're intelligent are funny.
Like you.

 

[Thinker101]

I realize you think educated people are funny.
Morons think that way,

Bud Light doesn't think it's funny, Target doesn't think it's funny, but many of their (ex)customers find it hilarious.

 

[Vastator]

No, I think that people who believe that having a piece of paper means that they're intelligent are funny.
Like you.

With mere literacy, and access to the internet; mankind has never had such limitless access to knowledge, and an unrestricted ability to educate themselves. All that is really lacking in many is ambition, and drive.

 

[Red Front]

They ALREADY have a way to make it easier to make payments on their loans in the early years when their income hasn’t taken off: payments tied to income. Then, when these highly educated doctors and lawyers are pulling in hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, they can step it up and fulfill their obligation.

And your threat that we need to “pay off their debts” or we’ll become communist/socialist is the very thing that WILL turn us that way: the idea that working call people have to absorb the debts of college educated professionals.

Otherwise, why stop there? Why not pay off young people’s car loans? Why not pay off a good portion of their rent? What a great way to discourage young people from working hard and moving up the ladder.

No sir, it's not a threat, it's simply stating a fact. I don't suggest the government cancel all of their debt, but rather the debt for something that society has an obligation to provide free of charge at the point of service, like an education. More, the taxpayer wouldn't be affected, because we have a GDP of 25 trillion dollars, so paying 1.5 trillion to forgive student debt is a drop in the bucket. You wouldn't even feel it as a taxpayer.

The bottom line is that we don't live in the same America where many people who are now complaining about canceling student debt, worked as young workers, many decades ago. This isn't the 1950s, 60s or even the 70s. The American working-class was gutted like a fish by Republicans in the 1980s:

The "trickle down", doesn't trickle.
​

The young people who are in debt with student loans are in a completely different economy than when many of you retired, older Republicans were working. The situation today for workers is bleak, and it was made that way due to right-wing Republican policies. No more labor unions, stagnant wages, few benefits if any, high cost of living, and extremely high expectations by employers as far as performance and production. The American worker is the most hard-working and productive worker in the world and yet she's still on food stamps:

​

She's sitting there for ten hours daily and she still has to be on public assistance, when Walmart is making billions yearly in profits. These billionaires can't pay her enough to live without food stamps? Walmart would lose two billion dollars yearly if it had to pay its employees a living wage. So what? They're still making tens of billions in profits. Google it.

Capitalists have been screwing the working-class in this country for decades, and you don't complain about that. Do you? You complain about the government doing something good for workers, like getting rid of their student debt-burden, and support whatever the government does to help the rich. The wealthy elites have been getting plenty of help, "relief" from Uncle Sam, why can't Uncle help the American worker? Only the rich get "bailed out" (socialism for the rich)? Not workers, it's "pick yourself up by your bootstraps", "free-market capitalism" for the working class, and socialism for the rich. They get the tax cuts and the subsidies, contracts, kickbacks, and bailouts, and the working class gets shafted, time and time again.

Republicans need to be more concerned with the working class. Ironically, many of you Republicans are working-class people, who have been brainwashed by your capitalist masters. You drank their Kool-Aid. Adam Smith the father of capitalism, calls capitalists "masters", in his book "The Wealth Of Nations":

What are the common wages of labour, depends everywhere upon the contract usually made between those two parties, whose interests are by no means the same. The workmen (employees) desire to get as much, and the masters (capitalists) to give as little as possible. The former are disposed to combine (unionize/labor unions) in order to raise, the latter in order to lower the wages of labor.

It is not, however, difficult to foresee which of the two parties must, upon all ordinary occasions, have the advantage in the dispute, and force the other into a compliance with their terms. The masters, being fewer in number, can combine (unions for the wealthy elites: super-PACs, lobbying, chambers of commerce, guilds, industry associations) much more easily; and the law, besides, authorizes, or at least does not prohibit their combinations (the organizing of the rich and powerful), while it prohibits those of the workmen. (Wealth Of Nations - Emphasis Mine)

Adam Smith was the father of capitalism and he was honest enough to admit that employees/exploitees don't have it that good under their masters (employers/exploiters). So why not relieve the workers of a debt they shouldn't have because society should educate its members without charging them exorbitant tuition fees, if at all. I see spending on education as important as defense spending. Do we ever "skimp" on defense spending in this country? Nope. No one ever asks anyone "who's going to pay for it" when it comes to defense spending. We can raise the budget for the military to a trillion bucks yearly, and no problem. But the Republicans get all upset about any expense that helps the working class. Amazing.

 

[Dadoalex]

No, I think that people who believe that having a piece of paper means that they're intelligent are funny.
Like you.

Peice of paper doesn't make me smart. Why i know makes me smart.
Just like what you don't know makes you stupid and stupid is as MAGAT does.

 

[Red Front]

The majority of people in this country aren’t really what used to be termed “college material.” College has been dumbed down significantly since I went to college 40 years ago, and dumbed down even more than that from when my parents went 70 years ago.

No, what we need to do is get rid of all the woke shit taking up valuable classroom time and concentrate on providing a solid academic background, and then, in the final year of high school, divide into two tracks:

1) The 75% or so who are not college material, and put them on a vocational track of their choosing: plumbing, HVAC repair, construction, basic computer support, retail sales, etc.

2) The 25% or so who ARE college material and plan to major in a marketable career: engineering, architecture, accounting, teaching, and pre-med and pre-law, and so forth. The government will provide subsidized loans they can repay when they are earning good money from their careers.

I thumbed your post up because I agree with 95% of what you said. Where we differ is on whether public colleges and vocational schools should be tuition free. I believe providing all Americans with an education is as important as providing them with police and a well-funded, professional military. It should be provided to all Americans free of charge at the point of service and paid for by the federal government, just as it pays for our defense, NASA, and all of the other public services, that are vital to our nation's infrastructure and survival.

I agree that education isn't what it used to be. I went to High School in the late 1980s and graduated in the 90-91 school year. We had machining, woodworking, auto-repair, and a few other trades in an ordinary public school. I graduated from Palmetto High in Miami, Florida. I then went to Miami Dade Community College, and the tuition wasn't that expensive. Today, unfortunately, education is more expensive (whether college or vocational). At least, we should reduce the cost of education and make it affordable.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

That’s the beauty of working hard, having a skill, being motivated and disciplined - you get to leave some money to your children.

Buying Heirs Their Success Instead of Making Them Compete for It

No one has the right to set his heirs up halfway to the finish line. That's no different from bribing the umpire "with your own money" to make sure your son, the pitcher, wins the game.

This Affluenza Affirmative Action is the only reason upper-class mind control prevents us from seeing that the real cost of college is not tuition, but not having enough money to live on, with dire consequences for the graduate's maturity, love life, and his workoholic desperation to make as much money as he can, as quickly as he can, any way he can. The key issue, which the rulers have made us ignore, is that the rich are hypocrites for giving their heirs adult allowances and preaching that it is not necessary for any other students.

 

[Lesh]

The majority of people in this country aren’t really what used to be termed “college material.” College has been dumbed down significantly since I went to college 40 years ago, and dumbed down even more than that from when my parents went 70 years ago.

We've read your posts. If you think you are in that supposed minority of people who are college material you are sadly mistaken...to the point of delusion

 

[Lisa558]

Buying Heirs Their Success Instead of Making Them Compete for It

No one has the right to set his heirs up halfway to the finish line. That's no different from bribing, the umpire "with your own money" to make sure your son, the pitcher wins the game.

This Affluenza Affirmative Action is the only reason upper-class mind control prevents us from seeing that the real cost of college is not tuition, but not having enough money to live on, with dire consequences for the graduate's maturity, love life, and desperation to make as much money as he can, as quickly as he can, any way he can. The key issue, which the rulers have made us ignore, is that the rich are hypocrites for giving their heirs adult allowances and preaching that it is not necessary for any other students.

Wrong. A parent who worked hard all his life, made wise investment decisions, lived within his means, and thus accumulated some wealth does indeed have the right to do with it what he wishes. If he wants to give it to his kids, it’s HIS money with which to do so.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Commie bullshit. Employers pay when they hire these people. That's why they make more than minimum wage. Their only investment is in themselves.

Profit Is a Tax on the Employees

The employees create the revenue and the owners collect it, which makes it collectivist, just like Communism. Then the owners give part of it back to them. It's a fantasy to think that the employers have the money first and are rewarding the employees from the employers' own bank accounts.

The worst example of this Investor Supremacy is in the Grand Larceny of corporate patents. The invention wouldn't exist at all without the employee-inventor, but it's treated like something anyone could do if given enough money by investors, so they get to grab all the profits.

Science is for suckers; the escapist nerds who go into it at the college plantation can't produce what we need. Even the dumb-luck slogan, which is stupidly accepted, "Necessity Is the Mother of Invention," is an insult to the inventors. Proof is that there are a lot of things we need, but that isn't making these necessities invent themselves.

A typical example of corporate-bully Investor Supremacy is the PCR. The inventor got a $30,000 bonus and the Low-IQ corporate parasites got $300,000,000. The modern version of Achilles (Brad Pitt in Troy) being used mercilessly by GreedHeads is the modern inventor. The same larceny cheated the inventor of Valium, and the inventor of television.

 

[Red Front]

Wrong. A parent who worked hard all his life, made wise investment decisions, lived within his means, and thus accumulated some wealth does indeed have the right to do with it what he wishes. If he wants to give it to his kids, it’s HIS money with which to do so.

Under a capitalist economy, with markets and money, I agree with you. However, those who aren't privileged like your children, should also, at least, have a robust social safety net, providing them with services that your wealthy children will take for granted. Education, healthcare, sick leave, maternity leave, pensions, labor union protections..etc (Citizens United/super-PACs/ the rich have legal protection, and labor unions should also have government-protected rights). Under this for-profit system of production a.k.a. capitalism, I don't care if wealthy parents set their children up for success and financial security. Good for them.

Nonetheless, the working class also has the right to live in a country with a well-developed "social security" infrastructure, and if you deny that, then why should leftists care about your concerns, as a wealthy person? You would have a lot of "chutzpa", to stand against the working-class as a wealthy person who makes no bones about making sure her children are well taken care of, while always complaining and voting against policies that serve the interests of the working class (the children of the working class). That only creates a very dangerous environment for the wealthy and privileged, like your beloved children who will receive all of your love and care $$$$$$$$$$, as they should. It's only natural, I would do it too. Make sure my kids can have a good life.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Yes, and we see it demonstrated on this forum every day….leftists berating business owners (who provide jobs) while defending welfare recipients (who won’t get a job).

The entire problem with the leftists is that they berate achievement and defend failures.

Two Wings of the Same Vulture. Leftists Are Enabled by Inheritance.

Quit using "the other side's" behavior as the only alternative to your ideology.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

I know two people who went to prestigious law schools and DID graduate with hundreds of thousands of debt - but they saw that as a wide investment in their future earnings. Both were earning $300,000 a year while still in their 20s,

So They Bought Their Jobs, Just Like Paying to Be an Intern

 

[Lisa558]

I thumbed your post up because I agree with 95% of what you said. Where we differ is on whether public colleges and vocational schools should be tuition free. I believe providing all Americans with an education is as important as providing them with police and a well-funded, professional military. It should be provided to all Americans free of charge at the point of service and paid for by the federal government, just as it pays for our defense, NASA, and all of the other public services, that are vital to our nation's infrastructure and survival.

I agree that education isn't what it used to be. I went to High School in the late 1980s and graduated in the 90-91 school year. We had machining, woodworking, auto-repair, and a few other trades in an ordinary public school. I graduated from Palmetto High in Miami, Florida. I then went to Miami Dade Community College, and the tuition wasn't that expensive. Today, unfortunately, education is more expensive (whether college or vocational). At least, we should reduce the cost of education and make it affordable.

Yes, and we HAVE made the cost of education affordable:

1) Do your first two years at community college. If you’re from the lower end of the income scale, it will be free to you.

2) Maintain a B average, and transfer to a 4-year school with an academic transfer scholarship. (If you can’t get a B average in CC, then you aren’t college material and instead go for vocational training.)

3) Your final two years can be at State U, at a “sticker price” of around $25,000 per year. Your academic scholarship will reduce that by half to third - bringing the annual cost down to between $12,500 and $16,000. Let’s average and say $14,000, or $28,000 for the two years.

Now let’s subtract out the earnings from jobs, PT during school and FT during summer and winter breaks. One should be able to earn close several thousand dollars per year, dropping your per-year cost to $10,000 - or $20,000 total.

Now, $20,000 is a small investment to make in one’s own future, considering that college graduates, on average, earn $1 million more over their lifetimes than a high school grad.

 

[Lisa558]

So They Bought Their Jobs, Just Like Paying to Be an Intern

Weird way of putting it. They spent money to train to be able to DO their high-paying job. Good Investment.

 

[Lisa558]

Under a capitalist economy, with markets and money, I agree with you. However, those who aren't privileged like your children, should also, at least, have a robust social safety net, providing them with services that your wealthy children will take for granted. Education, healthcare, sick leave, maternity leave, pensions, labor union protections..etc (Citizens United/super-PACs/ the rich have legal protection, and labor unions should also have government-protected rights). Under this for-profit system of production a.k.a. capitalism, I don't care if wealthy parents set their children up for success and financial security. Good for them.

Nonetheless, the working class also has the right to live in a country with a well-developed "social security" infrastructure, and if you deny that, then why should leftists care about your concerns, as a wealthy person? You would have a lot of "chutzpa", to stand against the working-class as a wealthy person who makes no bones about making sure her children are well taken care of, while always complaining and voting against policies that serve the interests of the working class (the children of the working class). That only creates a very dangerous environment for the wealthy and privileged, like your beloved children who will receive all of your love and care $$$$$$$$$$, as they should. It's only natural, I would do it too. Make sure my kids can have a good life.

Why are you assuming that I have wealthy children, or even any children at all? I am speaking from an ideological viewpoint: that a person who earns and accumulates money can do with it what he wants.

And P.S. None of this negates the safety net. The wealthy person pays taxes toward that, as well.

 

[Papageorgio]

They were tricked into 6 figure loans as children. I know conservatives celebrate that as powerful colleges that behave as corporations squeezing the life out of a bunch of suckers, but the rest of us prefer there to be less misery in the world.

I wanted less misery in my life, I didn't take a loan when I was a kid because it was too expensive, I went to a local college I could afford. I was raised to live within my means.