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Interesting Dilema

RetiredGySgt

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I think this person has a case. Will have to see how the courts rule.

Basicly "she" claimed sex change operation as tax deductible and 2 years later the IRS said "she" couldn't because they consider it cosmetic.

Since "she" has licensed medical doctors and accepted medical conditions on her side, I would think she should win the case.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070716/ap_on_re_us/irs_sex_change
 

mattskramer

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I think this person has a case. Will have to see how the courts rule.

Basicly "she" claimed sex change operation as tax deductible and 2 years later the IRS said "she" couldn't because they consider it cosmetic.

Since "she" has licensed medical doctors and accepted medical conditions on her side, I would think she should win the case.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070716/ap_on_re_us/irs_sex_change

I worked for a health insurance company. There are many times in which we would call for proof of medical necessity. There are rules that state that when a woman has a radical mastectomy due to breast cancer, she would be covered for surgery to promote breast bilateral symmetry. There is always a debate over whether a procedure is cosmetic or necessary (per psychological reasons). I guess that I lean to the cold-hearted side. I’m no psychologist but in my opinion, to not have transgender surgery is not as life threatening as not to have an emergency appendectomy.
 

Diuretic

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What if the gender-reassignment surgery was necessary for continuing mental health of the person? For example, if they were contemplating suicide due to their condition? Should that then be considered necessary?
 
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RetiredGySgt

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I worked for a health insurance company. There are many times in which we would call for proof of medical necessity. There are rules that state that when a woman has a radical mastectomy due to breast cancer, she would be covered for surgery to promote breast bilateral symmetry. There is always a debate over whether a procedure is cosmetic or necessary (per psychological reasons). I guess that I lean to the cold-hearted side. I’m no psychologist but in my opinion, to not have transgender surgery is not as life threatening as not to have an emergency appendectomy.

Well not sure that is cold hearted. It does however ignore the potentially real problems of Psychology , and your not alone in that regard. If one can provide MEDICAL evidence that a procedure was needed for reasons other than just cosmetic then they have grounds to argue neccassity.

It is in fact reasonable to question medical procedures that are not directly related to a form of easily identifiable life or death, the problem is that there are other procedures allowed that have to do with non life threatening conditions.

It is a reasonable assumption that the doctors that recommended and approved the operations thought it critically necasssary for the health and well being of this individual.

Psychology is the redheaded step child of medicine. And it doesn't help the branch that quacks, fakes and charlatens use it to steal or leach. But it is a valid House of medical practice. Because one can not "see" or "touch" mental problems usually they are dismissed by many. ( not accusing you of that) Like I said this will be interesting to see what happens.
 

William Joyce

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What if the gender-reassignment surgery was necessary for continuing mental health of the person? For example, if they were contemplating suicide due to their condition? Should that then be considered necessary?

But suicide is voluntary. I think the whole "sex change" surgery business is absurd. God doesn't make mistakes that big. Besides, nobody can be changed from a man into a woman, and vice versa --- you're just carving up parts and playing with hormones like a Mr. (Mrs.) Potato Head. Sick.
 

pegwinn

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But suicide is voluntary. I think the whole "sex change" surgery business is absurd. God doesn't make mistakes that big. Besides, nobody can be changed from a man into a woman, and vice versa --- you're just carving up parts and playing with hormones like a Mr. (Mrs.) Potato Head. Sick.

I have to agree. I understand that someone can be deranged and suicidal. But there are other treatments for it. A sex change is simply putting lipstick on a pig.
 
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I have to agree. I understand that someone can be deranged and suicidal. But there are other treatments for it. A sex change is simply putting lipstick on a pig.

I am not so certain. Nor am I as certain any more that all homosexuals are by choice or taught. I suspect a large number of supposed Homosexuals are not really clinically wired that way, BUT I also believe now that it is possible that at least some are in fact wired that way.

As to sexual Identity, I am not willing to simply dismiss licensed DOCTORS , and in growing numbers, as simply letting emotions cloud their judgement or medical expertise.

An argument can be made that such an exemption as claimed should be denied UNLESS medical evidence is provided to substantiate the NEED. Currently the law is no matter the evidence it is disapproved. We shall see what a court rules on that.
 

Truthmatters

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I think this person has a case. Will have to see how the courts rule.

Basicly "she" claimed sex change operation as tax deductible and 2 years later the IRS said "she" couldn't because they consider it cosmetic.

Since "she" has licensed medical doctors and accepted medical conditions on her side, I would think she should win the case.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070716/ap_on_re_us/irs_sex_change


I am loving saying this ...I totally agree with you.
 

Diuretic

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But suicide is voluntary. I think the whole "sex change" surgery business is absurd. God doesn't make mistakes that big. Besides, nobody can be changed from a man into a woman, and vice versa --- you're just carving up parts and playing with hormones like a Mr. (Mrs.) Potato Head. Sick.


Suicide is voluntary, but is it desirable that it be avoided if possible as a solution to a problem that can be remedied without taking one's life?
 
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RetiredGySgt

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Suicide is voluntary, but is it desirable that it be avoided if possible as a solution to a problem that can be remedied without taking one's life?

Remember who posted that. A white racist, I am sure Homo's and those with sexual identities wrong are on his list of lesser beings also.
 

Diuretic

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Remember who posted that. A white racist, I am sure Homo's and those with sexual identities wrong are on his list of lesser beings also.

A fair point.

I'll wait and see if I get an answer to my question.
 

William Joyce

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Remember who posted that. A white racist, I am sure Homo's and those with sexual identities wrong are on his list of lesser beings also.

It's funny, there's a lot of evidence that homosexuality is an inherited trait (I can work with this, but I don't think it extends to "wrong gender"). There's also a lot of evidence that low black IQ is inherited. I can accept this, obviously, as an "evil white racist" (i.e., person who acknowledges the evidence).

But you'll have trouble finding many who agree with both. Notice how, if it works to liberal ADVANTAGE, inherited traits are real. Example: if a black has a low IQ and that's used to prevent his execution, well, OK. But if you want to point this out as a reason for why more funding for black schools is wasted, not OK. For homosexuals: if it's an inherited trait, well, they can't "help it," and are therefore free from blame (a pro-liberal position). If it's a choice, they are to blame. But this whole bit is sort of the reverse of the black thing.

So, let's hear it from diuretic and RGS: is homosexuality an inherited trait? and if so, why aren't other traits, like intelligence, inheritable?
 
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It's funny, there's a lot of evidence that homosexuality is an inherited trait (I can work with this, but I don't think it extends to "wrong gender"). There's also a lot of evidence that low black IQ is inherited. I can accept this, obviously, as an "evil white racist" (i.e., person who acknowledges the evidence).

But you'll have trouble finding many who agree with both. Notice how, if it works to liberal ADVANTAGE, inherited traits are real. Example: if a black has a low IQ and that's used to prevent his execution, well, OK. But if you want to point this out as a reason for why more funding for black schools is wasted, not OK. For homosexuals: if it's an inherited trait, well, they can't "help it," and are therefore free from blame (a pro-liberal position). If it's a choice, they are to blame. But this whole bit is sort of the reverse of the black thing.

So, let's hear it from diuretic and RGS: is homosexuality an inherited trait? and if so, why aren't other traits, like intelligence, inheritable?

Homosexuality occurs in a very small number of people within the overall world wide population. The last reliable scientific statement I saw was 2 to 3 percent of the population. Your claim that the entire black population of the world is inheriently dumber than the white race is simply ridiculous on its face. Even if you now try to claim you only mean american blacks it doesn't work because a large number of blacks in this country are NOT descended from slaves.

Further there are no " black" schools legally in this country for grades 1 - 12 that are public education.
 

William Joyce

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Your claim that the entire black population of the world is inheriently dumber than the white race is simply ridiculous on its face.

Nobody claims that. The average IQ for the black race is 15 points lower than the average IQ for the white race. Ten percent of the black race has a higher IQ than the average white person. That's not even close to the position you attributed to me! It still means that whites are generally smarter than blacks, and if you can't admit that, you'll admit nothing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_Curve

Further there are no " black" schools legally in this country for grades 1 - 12 that are public education.

What? There are THOUSANDS of predominately black schools in America! You can't be serious. Do you mean that there are no schools that legally exclude all other races but the black race? That is probably true, but beside the point -- especially given that if blacks COULD do that, they WOULD.
 

pegwinn

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Remember who posted that. A white racist, I am sure Homo's and those with sexual identities wrong are on his list of lesser beings also.

I OTOH am not a racist. And I agree in this instance with WJ that I simply don't believe that a woman can be trapped in a mans body etc etc.
 

Diuretic

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I OTOH am not a racist. And I agree in this instance with WJ that I simply don't believe that a woman can be trapped in a mans body etc etc.

Your opinion is fine, hold it by all means, but it's irrelevant and it's wrong anyway, but you can be wrong by all means. The facts - scientific, objective, provable facts - are that there is a condition of gender identify confusion. Now you're opinion that it doesn't exist is fine but it means nothing. You can believe the moon is made of green cheese if you like, that's up to you, the fact is that the moon isn't made of green cheese.
 

Diuretic

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It's funny, there's a lot of evidence that homosexuality is an inherited trait (I can work with this, but I don't think it extends to "wrong gender"). There's also a lot of evidence that low black IQ is inherited. I can accept this, obviously, as an "evil white racist" (i.e., person who acknowledges the evidence).

But you'll have trouble finding many who agree with both. Notice how, if it works to liberal ADVANTAGE, inherited traits are real. Example: if a black has a low IQ and that's used to prevent his execution, well, OK. But if you want to point this out as a reason for why more funding for black schools is wasted, not OK. For homosexuals: if it's an inherited trait, well, they can't "help it," and are therefore free from blame (a pro-liberal position). If it's a choice, they are to blame. But this whole bit is sort of the reverse of the black thing.

So, let's hear it from diuretic and RGS: is homosexuality an inherited trait? and if so, why aren't other traits, like intelligence, inheritable?


Transparently obvious dodge there Billyboy - are you going to ignore my question? Or are you snookered again?
 

pegwinn

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Your opinion is fine, hold it by all means, but it's irrelevant and it's wrong anyway, but you can be wrong by all means.
And so we begin
The facts - scientific, objective, provable facts - are that there is a condition of gender identify confusion.
Which isn't to say that there is a woman trapped in a mans body. But, feel free to bring forth these objective facts.
Now you're opinion that it doesn't exist is fine but it means nothing. You can believe the moon is made of green cheese if you like, that's up to you, the fact is that the moon isn't made of green cheese.

Might make for a bit of interesting reading. Lay on Mac D.....
 

Diuretic

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If we're not here for interesting reading then what? :badgrin:
 

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