Intelligent Design and Evolution?

[ding]

I am about to start making this guy argue against science.

You are not about to unveil a big surprise. Your argument is tired and old. Go ahead, just lay it all out. No need to be shy.

I've never been accused of that.

Do you believe the potential for consciousness and/or intelligence existed when space and time were created?

Just make your point.

Sorry this has to be done in steps. Do you believe the potential for consciousness and/or intelligence existed when space and time were created?

It does not have to be done in steps. I am not here to be interrogated. Make your argument.

I am. Do you believe the potential for consciousness and/or intelligence existed when space and time were created?

It's a simple question. Don't be afraid.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

You are not about to unveil a big surprise. Your argument is tired and old. Go ahead, just lay it all out. No need to be shy.

I've never been accused of that.

Do you believe the potential for consciousness and/or intelligence existed when space and time were created?

Just make your point.

Sorry this has to be done in steps. Do you believe the potential for consciousness and/or intelligence existed when space and time were created?

It does not have to be done in steps. I am not here to be interrogated. Make your argument.

I am. Do you believe the potential for consciousness and/or intelligence existed when space and time were created?

It's a simple question. Don't be afraid.

No, just make your argument. Start with your premises, then use them to draw a conclusion. You can do it. All by yourself.

 

[ding]

I've never been accused of that.

Do you believe the potential for consciousness and/or intelligence existed when space and time were created?

Just make your point.

Sorry this has to be done in steps. Do you believe the potential for consciousness and/or intelligence existed when space and time were created?

It does not have to be done in steps. I am not here to be interrogated. Make your argument.

I am. Do you believe the potential for consciousness and/or intelligence existed when space and time were created?

It's a simple question. Don't be afraid.

No, just make your argument. Start with your premises, then use them to draw a conclusion. You can do it. All by yourself.

No. I am doing it this way.

Do you believe the potential for consciousness and/or intelligence existed when space and time were created?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Just make your point.

Sorry this has to be done in steps. Do you believe the potential for consciousness and/or intelligence existed when space and time were created?

It does not have to be done in steps. I am not here to be interrogated. Make your argument.

I am. Do you believe the potential for consciousness and/or intelligence existed when space and time were created?

It's a simple question. Don't be afraid.

No, just make your argument. Start with your premises, then use them to draw a conclusion. You can do it. All by yourself.

No. I am doing it this way.

Do you believe the potential for consciousness and/or intelligence existed when space and time were created?

Sorry, you'll have to answer them yourself. If you have anything resembling a decent argument, it will stand on its own. Catch you later, I guess.

 

[ding]

"...Life seems increasingly to be part of the order of nature. We have good reason to believe that we find ourselves in a universe permeated with life, in which life arises inevitably, given enough time, wherever the conditions exist that make it possible...."

George Wald, 1984, “Life and Mind in the Universe”, International Journal of Quantum Chemistry: Quantum Biology Symposium 11, 1984: 1-15.

 

[ding]

Sorry this has to be done in steps. Do you believe the potential for consciousness and/or intelligence existed when space and time were created?

It does not have to be done in steps. I am not here to be interrogated. Make your argument.

I am. Do you believe the potential for consciousness and/or intelligence existed when space and time were created?

It's a simple question. Don't be afraid.

No, just make your argument. Start with your premises, then use them to draw a conclusion. You can do it. All by yourself.

No. I am doing it this way.

Do you believe the potential for consciousness and/or intelligence existed when space and time were created?

Sorry, you'll have to answer them yourself. If you have anything resembling a decent argument, it will stand on its own. Catch you later, I guess.

I figured you were too scared to play. Bye.

 

[ding]

"...Mind, rather than emerging as a late outgrowth in the evolution of life, has existed always as the matrix, the source and condition of physical reality - that the stuff of which physical reality is composed is mind-stuff. It is Mind that has composed a physical universe that breeds life, and so eventually evolves creatures that know and create.”

George Wald, 1984, “Life and Mind in the Universe”, International Journal of Quantum Chemistry: Quantum Biology Symposium 11, 1984: 1-15.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

It does not have to be done in steps. I am not here to be interrogated. Make your argument.

I am. Do you believe the potential for consciousness and/or intelligence existed when space and time were created?

It's a simple question. Don't be afraid.

No, just make your argument. Start with your premises, then use them to draw a conclusion. You can do it. All by yourself.

No. I am doing it this way.

Do you believe the potential for consciousness and/or intelligence existed when space and time were created?

Sorry, you'll have to answer them yourself. If you have anything resembling a decent argument, it will stand on its own. Catch you later, I guess.

I figured you were too scared to play. Bye.

You are the one that won't make his argument. A decent argument does not depend on another person's opinion. If it makes you feel any better, your argument is predictable and cliche, and it is easily dismissed as circular as you eventually are forced to admit that you are assuming a magical god as evidence for a magical god. So probably wise of you to keep it in reserve.

 

[sealybobo]

Intelligent Design can mean whatever you want it to mean just like many religious tenets can.

For me, I believe in a God concept. Something that is greater than any of the mortal/time limited objects that I know exist. I like the term, "Eternal Present." No change ever. No entropy.

I also believe in evolution that is guided by some power greater than random chance but still allowing random chance to operate as the selection process.

I don't see any problem being a Deist and believing in evolution as the means for feces to evolve to their present state and beyond.

I do have a real serious problem with the 7 days concept and garden of Eden thing. That is so pat with other primative explanations of how life was created. I find it hard to believe that someone would take the bible that literally today. But, then I find it hard to believe that some folks on these threads believe what they write.

This is religion evolving or devolving depending on how you look at it because before Moses lied and said god talked to him people had this discussion. No one claimed to be the one true religion because there were no religions.

I think we are going back to that because there isn’t one holy book that makes any sense

 

[BS Filter]

Intelligent Design can mean whatever you want it to mean just like many religious tenets can.

For me, I believe in a God concept. Something that is greater than any of the mortal/time limited objects that I know exist. I like the term, "Eternal Present." No change ever. No entropy.

I also believe in evolution that is guided by some power greater than random chance but still allowing random chance to operate as the selection process.

I don't see any problem being a Deist and believing in evolution as the means for feces to evolve to their present state and beyond.

I do have a real serious problem with the 7 days concept and garden of Eden thing. That is so pat with other primative explanations of how life was created. I find it hard to believe that someone would take the bible that literally today. But, then I find it hard to believe that some folks on these threads believe what they write.

This is religion evolving or devolving depending on how you look at it because before Moses lied and said god talked to him people had this discussion. No one claimed to be the one true religion because there were no religions.

I think we are going back to that because there isn’t one holy book that makes any sense

What makes you think Moses lied?

 

[ding]

I am. Do you believe the potential for consciousness and/or intelligence existed when space and time were created?

It's a simple question. Don't be afraid.

No, just make your argument. Start with your premises, then use them to draw a conclusion. You can do it. All by yourself.

No. I am doing it this way.

Do you believe the potential for consciousness and/or intelligence existed when space and time were created?

Sorry, you'll have to answer them yourself. If you have anything resembling a decent argument, it will stand on its own. Catch you later, I guess.

I figured you were too scared to play. Bye.

You are the one that won't make his argument. A decent argument does not depend on another person's opinion. If it makes you feel any better, your argument is predictable and cliche, and it is easily dismissed as circular as you eventually are forced to admit that you are assuming a magical god as evidence for a magical god. So probably wise of you to keep it in reserve.

You are the big talking scientist who is afraid to discuss science.

Do you believe the potential for consciousness and/or intelligence existed when space and time were created?

You do understand this discussion is about the laws of nature, right?

You do believe in the laws of nature, right?

You are qualified to have this discussion, right?

You aren't afraid of a dumb ass christian, are you? Cause it seems that way to me.

 

[ding]

Intelligent Design can mean whatever you want it to mean just like many religious tenets can.

For me, I believe in a God concept. Something that is greater than any of the mortal/time limited objects that I know exist. I like the term, "Eternal Present." No change ever. No entropy.

I also believe in evolution that is guided by some power greater than random chance but still allowing random chance to operate as the selection process.

I don't see any problem being a Deist and believing in evolution as the means for feces to evolve to their present state and beyond.

I do have a real serious problem with the 7 days concept and garden of Eden thing. That is so pat with other primative explanations of how life was created. I find it hard to believe that someone would take the bible that literally today. But, then I find it hard to believe that some folks on these threads believe what they write.

This is religion evolving or devolving depending on how you look at it because before Moses lied and said god talked to him people had this discussion. No one claimed to be the one true religion because there were no religions.

I think we are going back to that because there isn’t one holy book that makes any sense

Does this make sense?

Man knows right from wrong, but when he violates it, rather than abandoning the concept of right and wrong, he rationalizes that he didn't violate it.

Evil, like darkness and cold, are not extant, they only exists as the absence of something else. Darkness is the absence of light. Cold is the absence of heat, and evil is the absence of good. Man does not do evil for the sake of evil. Man does evil for the sake of his own good.

Man is the only animal capable of knowledge of good and evil. No other creature has this concept. Sure animals can have empathy, but not like man. Animals function on impulse and instinct. Man functions on these too, but in man's case he has the unique ability to override his impulses and instinct for the sake of good. That is free will. It's a choice. Everything is choice.

Evil exists because it is part and parcel of the extant nature of good. You can't have an up without a down or an on without a off or right without a wrong.

There are two very interesting things which come out of free will. One is that evil has the effect of making good better. It's like salt and sugar. Salt makes sugar taste sweeter. The other interesting thing is that good has no meaning unless there is evil. In other words, it is not virtuous if you are forced to be virtuous.

In closing, man prefers good over evil. We don't do evil for evil's sake. We do evil for the sake of our own good and when we do, we rationalize that we didn't do evil. But from these acts, goodness will arise and we will be stronger for it. It is a self compensating feature whose sole purpose is to propel consciousness to the next rung in the anthropological ladder.

 

[sealybobo]

Intelligent Design can mean whatever you want it to mean just like many religious tenets can.

For me, I believe in a God concept. Something that is greater than any of the mortal/time limited objects that I know exist. I like the term, "Eternal Present." No change ever. No entropy.

I also believe in evolution that is guided by some power greater than random chance but still allowing random chance to operate as the selection process.

I don't see any problem being a Deist and believing in evolution as the means for feces to evolve to their present state and beyond.

I do have a real serious problem with the 7 days concept and garden of Eden thing. That is so pat with other primative explanations of how life was created. I find it hard to believe that someone would take the bible that literally today. But, then I find it hard to believe that some folks on these threads believe what they write.

This is religion evolving or devolving depending on how you look at it because before Moses lied and said god talked to him people had this discussion. No one claimed to be the one true religion because there were no religions.

I think we are going back to that because there isn’t one holy book that makes any sense

Does this make sense?

Man knows right from wrong, but when he violates it, rather than abandoning the concept of right and wrong, he rationalizes that he didn't violate it.

Evil, like darkness and cold, are not extant, they only exists as the absence of something else. Darkness is the absence of light. Cold is the absence of heat, and evil is the absence of good. Man does not do evil for the sake of evil. Man does evil for the sake of his own good.

Man is the only animal capable of knowledge of good and evil. No other creature has this concept. Sure animals can have empathy, but not like man. Animals function on impulse and instinct. Man functions on these too, but in man's case he has the unique ability to override his impulses and instinct for the sake of good. That is free will. It's a choice. Everything is choice.

Evil exists because it is part and parcel of the extant nature of good. You can't have an up without a down or an on without a off or right without a wrong.

There are two very interesting things which come out of free will. One is that evil has the effect of making good better. It's like salt and sugar. Salt makes sugar taste sweeter. The other interesting thing is that good has no meaning unless there is evil. In other words, it is not virtuous if you are forced to be virtuous.

In closing, man prefers good over evil. We don't do evil for evil's sake. We do evil for the sake of our own good and when we do, we rationalize that we didn't do evil. But from these acts, goodness will arise and we will be stronger for it. It is a self compensating feature whose sole purpose is to propel consciousness to the next rung in the anthropological ladder.

Sounds good to me.

 

[ding]

Intelligent Design can mean whatever you want it to mean just like many religious tenets can.

For me, I believe in a God concept. Something that is greater than any of the mortal/time limited objects that I know exist. I like the term, "Eternal Present." No change ever. No entropy.

I also believe in evolution that is guided by some power greater than random chance but still allowing random chance to operate as the selection process.

I don't see any problem being a Deist and believing in evolution as the means for feces to evolve to their present state and beyond.

I do have a real serious problem with the 7 days concept and garden of Eden thing. That is so pat with other primative explanations of how life was created. I find it hard to believe that someone would take the bible that literally today. But, then I find it hard to believe that some folks on these threads believe what they write.

This is religion evolving or devolving depending on how you look at it because before Moses lied and said god talked to him people had this discussion. No one claimed to be the one true religion because there were no religions.

I think we are going back to that because there isn’t one holy book that makes any sense

Does this make sense?

Man knows right from wrong, but when he violates it, rather than abandoning the concept of right and wrong, he rationalizes that he didn't violate it.

Evil, like darkness and cold, are not extant, they only exists as the absence of something else. Darkness is the absence of light. Cold is the absence of heat, and evil is the absence of good. Man does not do evil for the sake of evil. Man does evil for the sake of his own good.

Man is the only animal capable of knowledge of good and evil. No other creature has this concept. Sure animals can have empathy, but not like man. Animals function on impulse and instinct. Man functions on these too, but in man's case he has the unique ability to override his impulses and instinct for the sake of good. That is free will. It's a choice. Everything is choice.

Evil exists because it is part and parcel of the extant nature of good. You can't have an up without a down or an on without a off or right without a wrong.

There are two very interesting things which come out of free will. One is that evil has the effect of making good better. It's like salt and sugar. Salt makes sugar taste sweeter. The other interesting thing is that good has no meaning unless there is evil. In other words, it is not virtuous if you are forced to be virtuous.

In closing, man prefers good over evil. We don't do evil for evil's sake. We do evil for the sake of our own good and when we do, we rationalize that we didn't do evil. But from these acts, goodness will arise and we will be stronger for it. It is a self compensating feature whose sole purpose is to propel consciousness to the next rung in the anthropological ladder.

Sounds good to me.

A big part of that came from those books that don't make any sense.

 

[sealybobo]

Intelligent Design can mean whatever you want it to mean just like many religious tenets can.

For me, I believe in a God concept. Something that is greater than any of the mortal/time limited objects that I know exist. I like the term, "Eternal Present." No change ever. No entropy.

I also believe in evolution that is guided by some power greater than random chance but still allowing random chance to operate as the selection process.

I don't see any problem being a Deist and believing in evolution as the means for feces to evolve to their present state and beyond.

I do have a real serious problem with the 7 days concept and garden of Eden thing. That is so pat with other primative explanations of how life was created. I find it hard to believe that someone would take the bible that literally today. But, then I find it hard to believe that some folks on these threads believe what they write.

This is religion evolving or devolving depending on how you look at it because before Moses lied and said god talked to him people had this discussion. No one claimed to be the one true religion because there were no religions.

I think we are going back to that because there isn’t one holy book that makes any sense

Does this make sense?

Man knows right from wrong, but when he violates it, rather than abandoning the concept of right and wrong, he rationalizes that he didn't violate it.

Evil, like darkness and cold, are not extant, they only exists as the absence of something else. Darkness is the absence of light. Cold is the absence of heat, and evil is the absence of good. Man does not do evil for the sake of evil. Man does evil for the sake of his own good.

Man is the only animal capable of knowledge of good and evil. No other creature has this concept. Sure animals can have empathy, but not like man. Animals function on impulse and instinct. Man functions on these too, but in man's case he has the unique ability to override his impulses and instinct for the sake of good. That is free will. It's a choice. Everything is choice.

Evil exists because it is part and parcel of the extant nature of good. You can't have an up without a down or an on without a off or right without a wrong.

There are two very interesting things which come out of free will. One is that evil has the effect of making good better. It's like salt and sugar. Salt makes sugar taste sweeter. The other interesting thing is that good has no meaning unless there is evil. In other words, it is not virtuous if you are forced to be virtuous.

In closing, man prefers good over evil. We don't do evil for evil's sake. We do evil for the sake of our own good and when we do, we rationalize that we didn't do evil. But from these acts, goodness will arise and we will be stronger for it. It is a self compensating feature whose sole purpose is to propel consciousness to the next rung in the anthropological ladder.

Sounds good to me.

A big part of that came from those books that don't make any sense.

I like philosophy

 

[ding]

Intelligent Design can mean whatever you want it to mean just like many religious tenets can.

For me, I believe in a God concept. Something that is greater than any of the mortal/time limited objects that I know exist. I like the term, "Eternal Present." No change ever. No entropy.

I also believe in evolution that is guided by some power greater than random chance but still allowing random chance to operate as the selection process.

I don't see any problem being a Deist and believing in evolution as the means for feces to evolve to their present state and beyond.

I do have a real serious problem with the 7 days concept and garden of Eden thing. That is so pat with other primative explanations of how life was created. I find it hard to believe that someone would take the bible that literally today. But, then I find it hard to believe that some folks on these threads believe what they write.

This is religion evolving or devolving depending on how you look at it because before Moses lied and said god talked to him people had this discussion. No one claimed to be the one true religion because there were no religions.

I think we are going back to that because there isn’t one holy book that makes any sense

Does this make sense?

Man knows right from wrong, but when he violates it, rather than abandoning the concept of right and wrong, he rationalizes that he didn't violate it.

Evil, like darkness and cold, are not extant, they only exists as the absence of something else. Darkness is the absence of light. Cold is the absence of heat, and evil is the absence of good. Man does not do evil for the sake of evil. Man does evil for the sake of his own good.

Man is the only animal capable of knowledge of good and evil. No other creature has this concept. Sure animals can have empathy, but not like man. Animals function on impulse and instinct. Man functions on these too, but in man's case he has the unique ability to override his impulses and instinct for the sake of good. That is free will. It's a choice. Everything is choice.

Evil exists because it is part and parcel of the extant nature of good. You can't have an up without a down or an on without a off or right without a wrong.

There are two very interesting things which come out of free will. One is that evil has the effect of making good better. It's like salt and sugar. Salt makes sugar taste sweeter. The other interesting thing is that good has no meaning unless there is evil. In other words, it is not virtuous if you are forced to be virtuous.

In closing, man prefers good over evil. We don't do evil for evil's sake. We do evil for the sake of our own good and when we do, we rationalize that we didn't do evil. But from these acts, goodness will arise and we will be stronger for it. It is a self compensating feature whose sole purpose is to propel consciousness to the next rung in the anthropological ladder.

Sounds good to me.

A big part of that came from those books that don't make any sense.

I like philosophy

I do too, but I hate philosophers.

 

[manifold]

Intelligent Design considers the fact that a Creator incorporated a means by which the universe evolves and grows. Consider that if something (we'll call it a God) was powerful enough to create the entire universe, then this creator was also intelligent enough to ensure that the inner workings of life and creation were able to sustain itself without guidance, or a 'hands-on' approach. Consider it part of that free will thing.

I don't dispute anything you say here, except for the notion that it accurately reflects "official" Intelligent Design dogma. Those who actively champion the notion of "Intelligent Design" absolutely do not describe it as you have. If you read up on it just a little bit, it quickly becomes obvious that it's barely modified Creationism.

 

[manifold]

Do you believe the potential for consciousness and/or intelligence existed when space and time were created?

How could it possibly be otherwise?

 

[manifold]

You aren't afraid of a dumb ass christian, are you? Cause it seems that way to me.

You misspelled atheist masquerading as a Christian.

 

[ding]

You aren't afraid of a dumb ass christian, are you? Cause it seems that way to me.

You misspelled atheist masquerading as a Christian.

It just seems that way to some, but I can assure you that they are wrong. Just because I am no saint doesn't mean I'm not trying to become one. I just have a long way to go.