'Instead of Gaza' | How should we name the new city?

[Shusha]

If nearly half of dropped munitions have been unguided, that means more than half have been guided. The US extensively used unguided munitions in Iraq and Afghanistan; in most cases a target isn’t worth an expensive guided bomb or missile. You are suffering from video game psychosis where precise shots and guided weapons are universal.

YES! AND "unguided" is not equivalent to indiscriminate or random. It only means gravity-dropped. It is still guided by the aircraft and its human operators.

 

[AZrailwhale]

No. I am absolutely criticizing Israel’s actions, THAT’s the problem. In another discussion I was more so specific, linked to an article where possible alternatives to the massive, imprecise bombs being used to level Gaza. Frankly, why pretend to care about civilians when you are using munitions like this in urban warfare?

https://www.cnn.com/gaza-israel-big-bombs/index.html#:~:text=Israeli%20officials%20have%20argued%20that,can%20to%20minimize%20civilian%20casualties.

In the first month of its war in Gaza, Israel dropped hundreds of massive bombs, many of them capable of killing or wounding people more than 1,000 feet away, analysis by CNN and artificial intelligence company Synthetaic suggests.

Satellite imagery from those early days of the war reveals more than 500 impact craters over 12 meters (40 feet) in diameter, consistent with those left behind by 2,000-pound bombs. Those are four times heavier than the largest bombs the United States dropped on ISIS in Mosul, Iraq, during the war against the extremist group there.

Weapons and warfare experts blame the extensive use of heavy munitions such as the 2,000-pound bomb for the soaring death toll. The population of Gaza is packed together much more tightly than almost anywhere else on earth, so the use of such heavy munitions has a profound effect.

“The use of 2,000-pound bombs in an area as densely populated as Gaza means it will take decades for communities to recover,” said John Chappell, advocacy and legal fellow at CIVIC, a DC-based group focused on minimizing civilian harm in conflict.


Or

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/13/politics/intelligence-assessment-dumb-bombs-israel-gaza/index.html

Nearly half of the air-to-ground munitions that Israel has used in Gaza in its war with Hamas since October 7 have been unguided, otherwise known as “dumb bombs,” according to a new US intelligence assessment.

The assessment, compiled by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence and described to CNN by three sources who have seen it, says that about 40-45% of the 29,000 air-to-ground munitions Israel has used have been unguided. The rest have been precision-guided munitions, the assessment says.

Unguided munitions are typically less precise and can pose a greater threat to civilians, especially in such a densely populated area like Gaza. The rate at which Israel is using the dumb bombs may be contributing to the soaring civilian death toll.

And it isn’t just “anti-Israel” factions concerned about this.

This opinion piece makes some very good points.

I'm a Holocaust scholar. We need to talk about what's happening in Gaza.

Opinion: The labels we use can inform foreign policy, so we need to be precise about what’s happening in Gaza, writes Elizabeth Heineman.

www.desmoinesregister.com

Stating that conditions are there for genocide to occur is not inaccurate nor is it weasel words. To say that Israel might be only a few decisions away from war crimes or genocide is also not inaccurate. It needs to be part of the conversation.

We can say it of Russia regarding Ukraine; we can say it of China regarding Uighurs; we can even say Hamas is attempting genocide …no one cares, but we can’t even suggest the possibility that this COULD occur when it comes to Israel?

Consider: More than half of Gaza’s population has now been forced (or herded) into Rafah. That is more than a million people in a city that normally housed 200,000.

Did you ever consider the possibility that the one ton bombs are being used to damage the tunnels that HAMAS is hiding in? In WWII the RAF used bombs of up to twenty thousand pounds for the same purpose, the so-called “earthquake bombs”

 

[Shusha]

Consider: More than half of Gaza’s population has now been forced (or herded) into Rafah. That is more than a million people in a city that normally housed 200,000.

Yes. Not genocide.

A significant portion of Gaza's (presumed) civilian population (with combatants and weapons hidden among them) have been extricated from the areas of heavy fighting. That is a GOOD thing, and perfectly in line with the obligations of Israel to the laws of armed conflict. Its a shame Egypt won't open the Rafah crossing to allow refugees to flee the war zone altogether and to allow humanitarian aid to flow freely without interference by Hamas, but that is on Egypt, not on Israel.

 

[fncceo]

In the first month of its war in Gaza, Israel dropped hundreds of massive bombs

In the first day of the war, without warning, Palestinians' representative government in Gaza slaughtered 1500 Jewish civilians, in the most brutal way imaginable, raped dozens of women, took hundreds more hostage, who are being held in the homes of Palestinians and you want to claim they are the victims here?

I can't imagine a less informed, more contrarian opinion is humanly possible.

I would remind The Palestinians, and their misinformed enablers, of the words of the warrior poet, Will Smith.

Don't start nothing, won't be nothing.

 

[fncceo]

"Israel is only a few decisions away from war crimes" is just spraying genocide-paint and hoping it sticks.

It's the kind of weasel words we've become used to when people want to promote Jewish extermination, but are too gutless to admit they want to follow in the footsteps of the last guys who tried it.

Frankly, I have more respect for someone with the guts to admit they share the vision of a Final Solution of the Jewish Problem with the Nazis.

They may be reprehensible monsters, but at least they're honest

 

[Lisa558]

Oh so now we can’t even bring it up? We can’t say something is approaching genocide? That’s the problem. There are a lot of things we aren’t allowed to say when it comes to Israel’s actions.

1) Because it isn’t genocide, and comparing Israel to the Nazis - which is what you’re doing - meets the definition of antisemitism.

2) The double standard which you’re applying - accusing the Jews of being close to Nazis - while failing to acknowledge that the Palestinians are the ones who want genoxide, and that their elected leaders did so on October 7th, and have threatened to continue doing so until every Jew is dead.

3) Are you aware that one of the HAMAS leaders put out a call to start killing Jews OUTSIDE Israel - the death of all Jews is their goal - but he was forced to recall it because it made HAMAS look bad?

4) And you exhibit more double standards when your focus is only on condemning Israel, and you do not call for the Muslim terrorists to release any still living hostages that they are abusing and starving to death?

In summary, two of your approaches meet the definition of antisemitism: comparing Israel to Nazis, and double standards.

 

[Lisa558]

Your so-called “adult” Arabs can’t control the Palestinians. Every nation that accepted any attempt to control or assimilate them has been destabilized by the man on the street Palestinian. The Palestinian’s core beliefs are that Israel stole their land, and are evil sub-human murderers. The only solution the Palestinians see to Israel is the extermination of ALL jews, not just Israelis, but ALL Jews.

Absolutely. In the clip below, we have a HAMAS leader calling for the murder of ALL Jews, throughout the world.

Now, does Israel call for the murder of Muslims throughout the world? It doesn’t even call for the murder of all Palestinians….in fact, it is doing the opposite: giving the Palestinians who supported the October 7th massacre opportunity to save themselves!

And yet, it is Israel who is being accused of genocide, and condemned, with barely a mention of the Jewish hostages that HAMAS is torturing to death.

 

[Lisa558]

It's the kind of weasel words we've become used to when people want to promote Jewish extermination, but are too gutless to admit they want to follow in the footsteps of the last guys who tried it.

Frankly, I have more respect for someone with the guts to admit they share the vision of a Final Solution of the Jewish Problem with the Nazis.

They may be reprehensible monsters, but at least they're honest

It’s similar to the way antisemites are now screaming “Zionist!” at Jews or using the word “Zionists” (in a negative way) instead of out-and-out saying Jews. They think it’s a way to get away with their antisemitism with a little word play.

 

[the watcher]

In summary, two of your approaches meet the definition of antisemitism: comparing Israel to Nazis, and double standards.

I think that to you everything meets the definition of antisemitism, including no tongue while kissing Jewish ass.

 

[Lisa558]

Yes. Not genocide.

A significant portion of Gaza's (presumed) civilian population (with combatants and weapons hidden among them) have been extricated from the areas of heavy fighting. That is a GOOD thing, and perfectly in line with the obligations of Israel to the laws of armed conflict. Its a shame Egypt won't open the Rafah crossing to allow refugees to flee the war zone altogether and to allow humanitarian aid to flow freely without interference by Hamas, but that is on Egypt, not on Israel.

And yet….no criticism for Egypt. Did you see the wall they’re building to keep these barbaric, hateful Palestinians out? They don’t want them in their country, poisoning the moderate Arab population.

More double standards: they criticize Israel for defending itself against an enemy with a DECLARED goal to kill all Jews, and no criticism for Egypt blocking the Palestinians’ escape - which has been enabled by Israel.

 

[Lisa558]

I think that to you everything meets the definition of antisemitism, including no tongue while kissing Jewish ass.

^^^ and this is antisemite, made obvious by his use of language.

 

[Lisa558]

In the first day of the war, without warning, Palestinians' representative government in Gaza slaughtered 1500 Jewish civilians, in the most brutal way imaginable, raped dozens of women, took hundreds more hostage, who are being held in the homes of Palestinians and you want to claim they are the victims here?

I can't imagine a less informed, more contrarian opinion is humanly possible.

I would remind The Palestinians, and their misinformed enablers, of the words of the warrior poet, Will Smith.

Don't start nothing, won't be nothing.

We REALLY need a thread on what constitutes antisemitism. I see the very people who fight against racism, knowing bigotry is wrong, revealing their own bigotry against Jews - via their language and their application of double standards.

 

[the watcher]

We REALLY need a thread on what constitutes antisemitism. I see the very people who fight against racism, knowing bigotry is wrong, revealing their own bigotry against Jews - via their language and their application of double standards.

I think you explained it pretty well, pretty much anything that doesn't portray Jews in a good light is antisemitic. Anyone that questions or has trouble with anything Israel does is an antisemite. Couldn't be any plainer.

 

[Lisa558]

I think you explained it pretty well, pretty much anything that doesn't portray Jews in a good light is antisemitic. Anyone that questions or has trouble with anything Israel does is an antisemite. Couldn't be any plainer.

“Kissing Jewish ass” reeks of contempt.

 

[the watcher]

“Kissing Jewish ass” reeks of contempt.

How about stand with Israel right or wrong? Is that better?

 

[Lisa558]

How about stand with Israel right or wrong? Is that better?

Too late. Your remark about “kissing Jewish ass” gave you away.

 

[surada]

Here is a definition of genocide from the National Holocaust Museum:

The legal term “genocide” refers to acts committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group. According to the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide (1948), genocide is an international crime. The acts that constitute genocide fall into five categories:

• Killing members of the group
• Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group
• Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part
• Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group
• Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group

There are a number of other serious, violent crimes that do not fall under the specific definition of genocide. They include crimes against humanity, war crimes, ethnic cleansing, and mass killing.

So, I agree, it is not yet genocide. They are, however, forcing the people into smaller and smaller areas…about half of Gaza’s population is now concentrated around Rafah, millions of people in horrendous conditions described by aid workers as amongst the worst they’ve worked in. Universities, cultural and historical sites, schools, hospitals all bombed.

There is also what members of the current government and cabinet are saying or refusing to refute or condemn such as a “voluntary” resettlement to places like The Congo.

Destroying the plains Buffalo was genocide.

 

[Natural Citizen]

How about stand with Israel right or wrong? Is that better?

I personally say whatever I want.

I couldn't give two craps less what the obnoxious thought police think about it.

 

[rylah]

Gaza/Áza - audacious, adjective

Hamas - corruption, verb

Óz - strength, noun

surada what is funny about the meaning of the names in Hebrew?

It's the precise description of the characters involved.

 

[the watcher]

Too late. Your remark about “kissing Jewish ass” gave you away.

You're a riot