Zone1 Innovation Through Inclusion: The Multicultural Cybersecurity Workforce

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

This is ISC2's first in-depth look at diversity in the cybersecurity workplace.

There are people, organizations and presumably government agencies who are keeping track of the numbers. You have to first identify the problem, need or deficiency before you can address it. This is a step in the right direction in my opinion:

https://www.isc2.org/-/media/Files/Research/Innovation-Through-Inclusion-Report.ashx

 

[Hector12]

Diversity only works when there is no diversity of merit. Nothing valuable is achieved by lowering standards for low performance demographics.

 

[JGalt]

This is ISC2's first in-depth look at diversity in the cybersecurity workplace.

There are people, organizations and presumably government agencies who are keeping track of the numbers. You have to first identify the problem, need or deficiency before you can address it. This is a step in the right direction in my opinion:

https://www.isc2.org/-/media/Files/Research/Innovation-Through-Inclusion-Report.ashx

Your link is broken. You have to first identify the problem, need or deficiency before you can address it.

https://www.isc2.org/-/media/Files/Research/Innovation-Through-Inclusion-Report.ashx

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Diversity only works when there is no diversity of merit. Nothing valuable is achieved by lowering standards for low performance demographics.

No one is lowering standards for anyone. They're doing the same things voluntarily that affirmative action was created to address.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Your link is broken. You have to first identify the problem, need or deficiency before you can address it.

https://www.isc2.org/-/media/Files/Research/Innovation-Through-Inclusion-Report.ashx

Well the editing period has passed so I can't correct it, however the url appears to be correct nonetheless and pulls up the report. You just have to copy and paste the link.

Do you read it?

 

[Hector12]

No one is lowering standards for anyone. They're doing the same things voluntarily that affirmative action was created to address.

What you say is not true. Different demographics differ in average ability levels. It is not possible to achieve equity without lowering standards for low performance demographics. I have worked with affirmative action beneficiaries who did not deserve their jobs. Their incompetence was obvious to everyone.

 

[Coyote]

Diversity only works when there is no diversity of merit. Nothing valuable is achieved by lowering standards for low performance demographics.

Can you show that standards were lowered in this case?

 

[Hector12]

Can you show that standards were lowered in this case?

Daily Caller News Foundation, April 22, 2023

A developing medical school trend to ditch the Medical College Admission Test (MCAT) requirement may not bode well for the future of the profession, medical watchdog group Do No Harm told the Daily Caller News Foundation.

Approximately 40 medical schools across the country have dropped the MCAT, a multiple choice exam that determines an individual’s ability to problem solve, think critically, and understand concepts about medical study, as a requirement for some applying students, according to a list compiled by Inspira Advantage. Do No Harm alleged that dropping the requirement is another way schools aim to bolster diversity on campus but asserted that it is a “dangerous trend,” according to its analysis...

“The MCAT has been shown to predict who has the best chance to be successful in medical school,” Do No Harm Program Manager Laura Morgan told the DCNF. “Eliminating it removes a proven standard for schools to consider when admitting students who demonstrate the aptitude to be good doctors.”

‘Dangerous Trend’: Medical Schools Are Ditching Standardized Tests In The Name Of ‘Diversity’

------------

Although Negroes tend to perform less well on mental aptitude tests than whites and Orientals, Charles Murray pointed out in his book Facing Reality: Two Truths About Race in America that when blacks, whites, and East Asians get the same scores, blacks still tend to perform less well.

 

[Dadoalex]

This is ISC2's first in-depth look at diversity in the cybersecurity workplace.

There are people, organizations and presumably government agencies who are keeping track of the numbers. You have to first identify the problem, need or deficiency before you can address it. This is a step in the right direction in my opinion:

https://www.isc2.org/-/media/Files/Research/Innovation-Through-Inclusion-Report.ashx

I've worked in Cyber for nearly 20 years and in IT in one role or another for over 40 years.
I can tell you Cyber is one White sausage fest.
I don't think it's intentional. If you've got the skills we want you.
Unfortunately, younger folks, and that means more diverse people don't bring the skills, yet.

Folks coming out of college with a "Cyber" degree think they should be put in charge of the program because of their "training" and complain when they can't land the big time cyber roles by waving their diplomas around.

Cyber is less about technology than it is about people and that means loads of experience. Server management, desktop management, network design, installation, management, development...

Younger folks are still in their knowledge silos. Great developers but little network knowledge. Great people skills but no development...

The field will become more diverse but it will take time. Not because old White guys like me are slowing things down, but because gaining the level of experience needed to perform effectively in Cyber takes time. At least 10 years experience spread among a minimum of four roles.

From a hiring perspective we are like the guy in the bar. Everyone looks good at 2:00 AM.

 

[IM2]

The assumption that certain groups of color are not qualified or that somehow standards were lowered for them in higher education is pervasive and is probably the main cause of the lack of diversity in cybersecurity.

 

[Hector12]

The assumption that certain groups of color are not qualified or that somehow standards were lowered for them in higher education is pervasive and is probably the main cause of the lack of diversity in cybersecurity.

Take a long hard look at this chart.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

What you say is not true. Different demographics differ in average ability levels. It is not possible to achieve equity without lowering standards for low performance demographics. I have worked with affirmative action beneficiaries who did not deserve their jobs. Their incompetence was obvious to everyone.

How do you identify affirmative action individuals? Tell us what the tells are

 

[Hector12]

How do you identify affirmative action individuals? Tell us what the tells are

They are blacks who perform less well than the least capable whites. One never completed a single major assignment but he was fire proof.

When I learned that another low performance affirmative action beneficiary was getting paid twice what I was, I discussed the matter with our boss.

Our boss told me, "When I was promoted to this position I was told that I would be evaluated in part by my ability to attract and keep black employees. I was also told that I was supposed to expect less from them."

That is the reality of affirmative action: anyone who claims otherwise is delusional or dishonest.

I have also worked with blacks who deserved their jobs.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Although Negroes tend to perform less well on mental aptitude tests than whites and Orientals, Charles Murray pointed out in his book Facing Reality: Two Truths About Race in America that when blacks, whites, and East Asians get the same scores, blacks still tend to perform less well.

This is how you sound, this report was written 98 years ago and you for some reason still buy into this propaganda:

Selected Assumptions about the Performance of African-American Soldiers in Previous Wars:​

​

It is generally recognized that the pure blood American negro is inferior to our white population in mental capacity. . . . The cranial cavity of the negro is smaller than the white; his brain weighing 35 ounces contrasted with 45 for the white.​

​

All officers, without exception, agree that the Negro lacks initiative, displays little or no leadership, and cannot accept responsibility. Some point out that these defects are greater in the Southern Negro. . . .​

​

Due to his susceptibility to ‘Crowd Psychology’ a large mass of negroes, e.g., a division, is very subject to panic. Experience had indicated that the negroes produce better results by segregation and cause less trouble. Grouping of negroes generally in the past has produced demands for equality, both during war and after demobilization. . . .​

​

An opinion held in common by practically all officers is that the negro is a rank coward in the dark. His fear of the unknown and unseen will prevent him from ever operating as an individual scout with success. His lack of veracity causes unsatisfactory reports to be rendered, particularly on patrol duty. . . .​

​

One of the peculiarities of the negro as a soldier is that he has no confidence in his negro leaders, nor will he follow a negro officer into battle, no matter how good the officer may be, with the same confidence and lack of fear that he will follow a white man. This last trait has been so universally reported by all commanders that it can not be considered as a theory—the negroes themselves recognize it as a fact. . . .​

​

The negro needs trained leadership far more than the white man needs it, and above all they need leaders in whom they have confidence, and whose presence they can feel and see at all times. . . .​

​

On account of the inherent weaknesses in negro character, especially general lack of intelligence and initiative, it requires much longer time of preliminary training to bring a negro organization up to the point of training where it is fit for combat, than it does in the case of white men. All theoretical training is beyond the grasp of the negro—it must be intensely practical, supplemented by plain talks explaining the reasons for things in simple terms. . . . -The 1925 Army War College Report​

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

They are blacks who perform less well than the least capable whites. One never completed a single major assignment but he was fire proof.

When I learned that another low performance affirmative action beneficiary was getting paid twice what I was, I discussed the matter with our boss.

Our boss told me, "When I was promoted to this position I was told that I would be evaluated in part by my ability to attract and keep black employees. I was also told that I was supposed to expect less from them."

That is the reality of affirmative action: anyone who claims otherwise is delusional or dishonest.

I have also worked with blacks who deserved their jobs.

Are you even aware that what you're describing has nothing to do with affirmative action and is probably just some scenario created to reinforce the implicit or rather explicit bias in this case that everyone involved started with?

What was the basis they used for paying you all and if it was not equitable why didn't any of you do anything about it?

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

They are blacks who perform less well than the least capable whites. One never completed a single major assignment but he was fire proof.

When I learned that another low performance affirmative action beneficiary was getting paid twice what I was, I discussed the matter with our boss.

Our boss told me, "When I was promoted to this position I was told that I would be evaluated in part by my ability to attract and keep black employees. I was also told that I was supposed to expect less from them."

That is the reality of affirmative action: anyone who claims otherwise is delusional or dishonest.

I have also worked with blacks who deserved their jobs.

Also, you just assume that a Black person encountered in your office has less capabilities that every other white person in the office? Don't you think that's kind of an ignorant blanket conclusion to draw?

 

[Hector12]

Also, you just assume that a Black person encountered in your office has less capabilities that every other white person in the office? Don't you think that's kind of an ignorant blanket conclusion to draw?

I do not make that assumption without evidence, but it is frequently true. Blacks who want to be respected in white environments should oppose affirmative action.

 

[Hector12]

Are you even aware that what you're describing has nothing to do with affirmative action and is probably just some scenario created to reinforce the implicit or rather explicit bias in this case that everyone involved started with?

What was the basis they used for paying you all and if it was not equitable why didn't any of you do anything about it?

Affirmative action reinforces the implicit bias most whites and East Asians privately have about most blacks. We smile in public, while knowing the truth. Blacks will never be accepted as equals until most of the them behave and perform that way. Policies against criticizing blacks reinforce the attitudes those policies are supposed to change.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

I do not make that assumption without evidence, but it is frequently true. Blacks who want to be respected in white environments should oppose affirmative action.

You have not presented a single shred of evidence, you've just engaged in activities and sought sources that allegedly confirm the biases you already hold.

And I can only speak for myself but I don't know a single Black person who values the opinions of or seeks respect from racists.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Affirmative action reinforces the implicit bias most whites and East Asians privately have about most blacks. We smile in public, while knowing the truth. Blacks will never be accepted as equals until most of the them behave and perform that way. Policies against criticizing blacks reinforce the attitudes those policies are supposed to change.

No it doesn't. You're confusing a piece of legislation with the thoughts, opinions and actions of racists.

The problem you've demonstrated over and over again in your postings is that you're unable to engage in critical thinking. That you cannot take a single instance and evaluate it objectively nor take an individual and evaluate them based on their own characteristics, attributes and abilities without dragging in a whole century's worth of outdated preconceived notions that are rife with racial stereotypes and biases.

That wall that you and other like you put up to impede the upward mobility of Black people is exactly why the current disparities exist, not the lack of abilities. And when people feel unwelcome, or judged and that everyone is just waiting for them to screw up so that they can then point and say "see I told you those Blacks aren't up to the job" then that stress itself can make them not do their best. Those are psychological stressors not lack of ability.