Innocents Betrayed - The History of Gun Control

[westwall]

It is the truth. In the 15 years I have been living here i cannot remember an innocent person being murdered with a handgun. Perhaps you should do some research before making such a stupid statement.

And here's a person who would be alive today if he had been allowed to defend himself. Because you know, people can only be murdered by handguns, there's no other possible way to murder someone


Three on trial over Dublin murder, Ireland

This was not a handgun murder.

I guess you didn't read what I said, or mayhap you simply don't understand?

 

[NoNukes]

And here's a person who would be alive today if he had been allowed to defend himself. Because you know, people can only be murdered by handguns, there's no other possible way to murder someone


Three on trial over Dublin murder, Ireland

This was not a handgun murder.

I guess you didn't read what I said, or mayhap you simply don't understand?

I read it and understood, we are talking about murders with handguns. I do not think that everyone walking around with handguns is the answer, and I believe that you are smarter than that too.

 

[NoNukes]

If Ireland had a handgun problem, the police would carry them. With the exception of the Special Branch, the Irish Garda do not carry any type of weapon.

Anyone who is not happy to hear that you can have a civilized society without needing handguns is not much of a human being.

Keep your guns, keep your paranoia, I am in a better place.

 

[NoNukes]

You need to look up the definition of "stupid".

I did, and your avatar was next to it.

Ahhh, the old "your picture in the dictionary" gambit, popular among 7-year-olds everywhere.

Masterful.

And you were not smart enough not to walk into it.

 

[NoNukes]

I find it seriously hard to believe that criminals only target criminals. Thieves only steal from other thieves. Murderers only kill other murders.

Are you REALLY this stupid?

Jesus, you're more out of touch then Mitt Romney.

I've never been to Ireland so I'll just say fine, you don't need gun freedom because armed robbery isn't a threat to you.

Yes armed robbery happens in the United States to innocent people. To deny this would be like denying the sky is blue...

Armed robberies in Ireland are usually done with weapons other than guns.

Of course. The government has already disarmed the potential victums; why bother with a firearm? Personally I don't think much of governments that side with criminals against citizens and will not tolerate it in mine.

No one here sides with criminals, what a peculiar statement.

 

[Dr Grump]

I'm not. I merely stated that had the dead man been allowed the use of a handgun for self defence he probably would still be alive. It's a truism that bad people kill good people. Good people should be allowed to have the means to defend themselves. You don't believe that, so be it. I just hope you are never on the recieving end like the poor dead guy. It will then be too late to change your mind.

And with the proliferation of guns, more murders occurs. There is a reason you get 6.1 murders per 100,000 and we get 1.2. At its most basic, I am five times more likely to be murdered in the US than NZ...

Actually you're not. The numbers are certainly higher but the vast majority are gang related homicides. If we could lock all of them up we would have crime rates actually lower then yours are now...and if you havn't checked, your crime rates are on the rise.
I've got friends who work with the NSW police as I've told you before and they are seeing more crime and more violent crime every week.

You can't pick and choose your stats. They are yours to keep. NZ has a high suicide rate compared to a lot of other western countries. A high proportion of them are youth. That's like me saying "oh, if you take out the youth in our suicide rate, it's not that bad".

I live here. Have no idea what you are talking about. There are a couple of suburbs in South West Sydney where there have been about 9 drive by shooting in the past week. The police believe it involves two gangs because the houses being targetted belong to members of those gangs. Outside of that, there doesn't appear to much more violent crime since I'vew been here for the past five years. And even if it does increase, it still has an age to go before it reaches your level.

 

[Dr Grump]

I'm not. I merely stated that had the dead man been allowed the use of a handgun for self defence he probably would still be alive. It's a truism that bad people kill good people. Good people should be allowed to have the means to defend themselves. You don't believe that, so be it. I just hope you are never on the recieving end like the poor dead guy. It will then be too late to change your mind.

And with the proliferation of guns, more murders occurs. There is a reason you get 6.1 murders per 100,000 and we get 1.2. At its most basic, I am five times more likely to be murdered in the US than NZ...

There's a reason no country has ever even considered invading America. Because the whole country is ARMED. It's a secondary army of 300,000,000 people that occupies this land from shore to shore, and there's no way possible for any army from any country to take it over, no possible way, and it's BECAUSE we're all ARMED. Your country on the other hand wouldn't take but a week to take over if another country decided to take it. Your choice to protect yourself and/or your country is GONE.

So regardless of whether or not your numbers are accurate, you are at the total and complete mercy of your government and the rest of the world. You have no way to defend yourself.

We do, and we're going to keep it.

Santa Ana invaded Texas..;oP

Taking over my country of birth (NZ) would be a lot harder than you think. My uncle was in the armed services for almost 20 years. All we need is two squadrons of fighter bombers (which we don't have any more thanks to our labour govt)

As for Aussie, they are more than willing to draw a line in the sand, but it would mean giving up two thirds of the country before they started fighting back. To be fair 99 percent of that two thirds is sand and rock. However the other one percent would be minerals....

On a more practical note, you won't ever have to defend yourself. The days of such wars are long gone. Nobody wants your country. They will undermine you by illegal immigration and by economics. Both are already happening....They no longer need guns...What you have to do is train the illegals in the US mindset of how a country should be run, as opposed to being like the countries they have come from. So it might not be all that bad!

 

[9thIDdoc]

Armed robberies in Ireland are usually done with weapons other than guns.

Of course. The government has already disarmed the potential victums; why bother with a firearm? Personally I don't think much of governments that side with criminals against citizens and will not tolerate it in mine.

No one here sides with criminals, what a peculiar statement.

Disarming the law-abiding encourages violent crime. And that is NOT what we should expect from government.

 

[Dr Grump]

Of course. The government has already disarmed the potential victums; why bother with a firearm? Personally I don't think much of governments that side with criminals against citizens and will not tolerate it in mine.

No one here sides with criminals, what a peculiar statement.

Disarming the law-abiding encourages violent crime. And that is NOT what we should expect from government.

Maybe in the US...I wouldn't call that an all-encompassing rule....

 

[westwall]

No one here sides with criminals, what a peculiar statement.

Disarming the law-abiding encourages violent crime. And that is NOT what we should expect from government.

Maybe in the US...I wouldn't call that an all-encompassing rule....

"The public's perception is that violence is increasing, but trends in violent crime reported to police since the early 1990s reveal a mixed story. Homicide has decreased by nine percent since 1990 and armed robbery by one-third since 2001, but recorded assaults and sexual assaults have both increased steadily in the past 10 years by over 40 percent and 20 percent respectively. The rate of aggravated assault appears to have contributed to the marked rise in recorded assault, and for both assault and sexual assault the rate of increase was greater for children aged under 15 years, with increases almost double that of the older age group. Neither population changes among young adult males nor rates of offending seem to explain the trends in recorded violent crime, and indicators of change in reporting to police provide only a partial explanation. Based on self-reported victimisation and reporting to police, it would seem increased reporting of assault is somewhat responsible for the rise in recorded assault rates against adult victims. However, victimisation survey data suggest there has been little change in rates of sexual assault, although reporting to police by women seems to have increased. Victimisation survey data also do not illuminate the most significant recorded increase in violent victimisation, against children, as they are collected less frequently and only apply to those aged at least over 15 years. The paper speculates that the rise could be due to better public understanding of child protection issues and increased reporting due to public awareness of what constitutes physical and sexual assault - especially within the family - but this requires further investigation to examine how many recorded violent crimes against children relate to current and/or past events and of the relationship to the offender.

Judy Putt
General Manager, Research"


Australian Institute of Criminology - Trends in violent crime

 

[Dr Grump]

Disarming the law-abiding encourages violent crime. And that is NOT what we should expect from government.

Maybe in the US...I wouldn't call that an all-encompassing rule....

"The public's perception is that violence is increasing, but trends in violent crime reported to police since the early 1990s reveal a mixed story. Homicide has decreased by nine percent since 1990 and armed robbery by one-third since 2001, but recorded assaults and sexual assaults have both increased steadily in the past 10 years by over 40 percent and 20 percent respectively. The rate of aggravated assault appears to have contributed to the marked rise in recorded assault, and for both assault and sexual assault the rate of increase was greater for children aged under 15 years, with increases almost double that of the older age group. Neither population changes among young adult males nor rates of offending seem to explain the trends in recorded violent crime, and indicators of change in reporting to police provide only a partial explanation. Based on self-reported victimisation and reporting to police, it would seem increased reporting of assault is somewhat responsible for the rise in recorded assault rates against adult victims. However, victimisation survey data suggest there has been little change in rates of sexual assault, although reporting to police by women seems to have increased. Victimisation survey data also do not illuminate the most significant recorded increase in violent victimisation, against children, as they are collected less frequently and only apply to those aged at least over 15 years. The paper speculates that the rise could be due to better public understanding of child protection issues and increased reporting due to public awareness of what constitutes physical and sexual assault - especially within the family - but this requires further investigation to examine how many recorded violent crimes against children relate to current and/or past events and of the relationship to the offender.

Judy Putt
General Manager, Research"


Australian Institute of Criminology - Trends in violent crime

From your link, which suggests violent crime is at the same rate it has always been, but people are just reporting it more..

Recorded rates of both assault and sexual assault have followed a sustained upward trend since the early 1990s. A simultaneous increase in the reporting of assault suggests this is somewhat responsible for the rise in assault rates.

 

[daveman]

I did, and your avatar was next to it.

Ahhh, the old "your picture in the dictionary" gambit, popular among 7-year-olds everywhere.

Masterful.

And you were not smart enough not to walk into it.

Only because I overestimated your level of intelligence and maturity -- a mistake I will not repeat.

 

[NoNukes]

Of course. The government has already disarmed the potential victums; why bother with a firearm? Personally I don't think much of governments that side with criminals against citizens and will not tolerate it in mine.

No one here sides with criminals, what a peculiar statement.

Disarming the law-abiding encourages violent crime. And that is NOT what we should expect from government.

That is not the case in Ireland, so you are wrong.

 

[NoNukes]

Ahhh, the old "your picture in the dictionary" gambit, popular among 7-year-olds everywhere.

Masterful.

And you were not smart enough not to walk into it.

Only because I overestimated your level of intelligence and maturity -- a mistake I will not repeat.

Yes you will.

 

[editec]

What percentage of the population (that is currently law abiding) would break into our houses and rape our women if people didn't have guns in their houses?

Anybody want to venture a guess?

 

[daveman]

And you were not smart enough not to walk into it.

Only because I overestimated your level of intelligence and maturity -- a mistake I will not repeat.

Yes you will.

No, I won't, stupid kid.

See?

 

[uptownlivin90]

It is the truth. In the 15 years I have been living here i cannot remember an innocent person being murdered with a handgun. Perhaps you should do some research before making such a stupid statement.

I find it seriously hard to believe that criminals only target criminals. Thieves only steal from other thieves. Murderers only kill other murders.

Are you REALLY this stupid?

Jesus, you're more out of touch then Mitt Romney.

I've never been to Ireland so I'll just say fine, you don't need gun freedom because armed robbery isn't a threat to you.

Yes armed robbery happens in the United States to innocent people. To deny this would be like denying the sky is blue...

Armed robberies in Ireland are usually done with weapons other than guns.

Maybe you should ban them.

 

[NoNukes]

I find it seriously hard to believe that criminals only target criminals. Thieves only steal from other thieves. Murderers only kill other murders.

Are you REALLY this stupid?

Jesus, you're more out of touch then Mitt Romney.

I've never been to Ireland so I'll just say fine, you don't need gun freedom because armed robbery isn't a threat to you.

Yes armed robbery happens in the United States to innocent people. To deny this would be like denying the sky is blue...

Armed robberies in Ireland are usually done with weapons other than guns.

Maybe you should ban them.

There is a ban on many knives.

 

[NoNukes]

What percentage of the population (that is currently law abiding) would break into our houses and rape our women if people didn't have guns in their houses?

Anybody want to venture a guess?

Most people do not have guns in their houses, so I would guess that it would be about the same.

 

[9thIDdoc]

That is not the case in Ireland, so you are wrong.
__________________

Nope you're just living in your own in little universe where the only truth is whatever you would have it be. Good luck with that.