Innocents Betrayed - The History of Gun Control

[LOki]

There are no car bombings in the Republic of Ireland, you are thinking of Northern Ireland, which is part of the UK. And there are very few bombings there since the peace agreement.

I stand corrected on the point of political geography, but you still missed my point.

My point is that gun control works in Ireland. A registered handgun, and there are not many, has never been used in a crime in Ireland. The Irish Olympic pistol team are not even allowed to own guns, which is going a bit far.

Your point is understood. You're missing mine. I don't prefer all other means to violent crime over hand-gun crime.

 

[peach174]

What our founders said about firearms;

Thomas Jefferson: "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." (T. Jefferson papers, 334.)

Thomas Jefferson: "What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms." (Thomas Jefferson to James Madison)

Thomas Jefferson: "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined or determined to commit crimes. Such laws only make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assassins; they serve to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." (1764 Letter and speech from T. Jefferson quoting with approval an essay by Cesare Beccari)

John Adams: "Arms in the hands of citizens may be used at individual discretion in private self defense." (A defense of the Constitution of the US)

Samual Adams: "The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms." (Convention of the Commonwealth of Mass.)

George Washington: "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." (Address to 1st session of Congress)

George Washington: "A free people ought to be armed." (Jan 14 1790, Boston Independent Chronicle.)

George Mason: "To disarm the people is the most effectual way to enslave them."

Noah Webster: "Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe." (1787, Pamphlets on the Constitution of the US)

James Madison: "Americans have the right and advantage of being armed, unlike the people of other countries, whose rulers are afraid to trust them with arms." (Federalist Paper #46)

Patrick Henry: "The people have a right to keep and bear arms." (Elliott, Debates)

Richard Henry Lee: "To preserve liberty it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them..." (Richard Henry Lee writing in Letters from the Federal Farmer to the Republic, 1787-1788).

Alexander Hamilton: "The best we can help for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed" (The Federalist Papers at 184-8)

These men lived in a completely different era, What they thought about guns hardly matters today, and I am sure they would not approve of the handgun epidemic in America today.

To ensure our freedom today, is the same as it was back then. It matters a great deal.
They would be rolling in their graves at the irresponsibility of the way Americans are using guns today, especially at shooting one another over tennis shoes and gold chains.

Hand gun epidemic?
Depends on what you are saying.
Do you mean the sales of hand guns?
Or do you mean murders?
there were 12,996 murders in the US. Of those, 8,775 were caused by firearms.
This is hardly an epidemic.
FBI web site
FBI — Expanded Homicide Data Table 1

 

[daveman]

I know of no one in the United States who owns a handgun or feels the need to. Where the hell do you live, I why do you have your family living in such a dangerous place?

You keep confusing your narrow worldview and limited experience for fact.

You know absolutely nothing of my world view, Kentucky, and I notice that you cannot answer my questions.

What I know of your world view I gleaned from your words.

"I know of no one in the United States who owns a handgun or feels the need to."

Your world view is limited and narrow.

 

[Full-Auto]

You keep confusing your narrow worldview and limited experience for fact.

You know absolutely nothing of my world view, Kentucky, and I notice that you cannot answer my questions.

What I know of your world view I gleaned from your words.

"I know of no one in the United States who owns a handgun or feels the need to."

Your world view is limited and narrow.

Nobody I know

 

[NoNukes]

I stand corrected on the point of political geography, but you still missed my point.

My point is that gun control works in Ireland. A registered handgun, and there are not many, has never been used in a crime in Ireland. The Irish Olympic pistol team are not even allowed to own guns, which is going a bit far.

Given how unstable the Irish are after they've tipped a few back, I agree they are no better then children and should be kept disarmed. You are absolutely correct, you are all incompetent and not capable of determining right from wrong.

Give their history, I can see why they might be reticent about having firearms about.

 

[NoNukes]

You keep confusing your narrow worldview and limited experience for fact.

You know absolutely nothing of my world view, Kentucky, and I notice that you cannot answer my questions.

What I know of your world view I gleaned from your words.

"I know of no one in the United States who owns a handgun or feels the need to."

Your world view is limited and narrow.

Do the majority of families in the United States own handguns? You are a big dummy who sits in Kentucky and thinks he has a world view. When did you spend any decent amount of time on another continent. And being there in the service does not count. And I do not know why I ask you questions since you fear them so.

 

[Full-Auto]

You know absolutely nothing of my world view, Kentucky, and I notice that you cannot answer my questions.

What I know of your world view I gleaned from your words.

"I know of no one in the United States who owns a handgun or feels the need to."

Your world view is limited and narrow.

Do the majority of families in the United States own handguns? You are a big dummy who sits in Kentucky and thinks he has a world view. When did you spend any decent amount of time on another continent. And being there in the service does not count. And I do not know why I ask you questions since you fear them so.

One more time. In english this time please.

 

[daveman]

You know absolutely nothing of my world view, Kentucky, and I notice that you cannot answer my questions.

What I know of your world view I gleaned from your words.

"I know of no one in the United States who owns a handgun or feels the need to."

Your world view is limited and narrow.

Do the majority of families in the United States own handguns?

NRA-ILA :: Firearm Fact Card 2011

General Information

Privately owned firearms in the U.S.: Approaching 300 million, including nearly 100 million handguns. The number of firearms rises over 4 million annually.
Gun owners in the U.S.: 70-80 million; 40-45 million own handguns
American households that have firearms: 40-45%​

While Gun Ownership Climbs, Murder Keeps Going Down

This week's revelation by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention that homicide is no longer among the leading causes of death in the United States – at a time when gun ownership is at an all-time high – shows that the gun ban lobby has been wrong, the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms said today.

"The CDC's report for 2010 that removes homicide from the top 15 leading causes of death in this country coincides with a period of record high gun ownership," said CCRKBA Chairman Alan Gottlieb. "At the same time, increasing numbers of citizens have obtained concealed carry permits and licenses. This is pretty strong evidence that rising gun ownership does not translate to more violence and murder."​

You are a big dummy who sits in Kentucky and thinks he has a world view.

You're a moron who thinks his opinions are facts. Oh, and thanks for the obligatory leftist hatred of the American South. Your elitism is noted and entirely unmerited.

When did you spend any decent amount of time on another continent. And being there in the service does not count.

You don't get to decide that. I spent a year and a half in Oman, living downtown with Omani neighbors. They're good people.

How about you? And no, posting on an American message board doesn't count.

And I do not know why I ask you questions since you fear them so.

You lack the horsepower to make me fear you, kid. Don't flatter yourself.

 

[daveman]

What I know of your world view I gleaned from your words.

"I know of no one in the United States who owns a handgun or feels the need to."

Your world view is limited and narrow.

Do the majority of families in the United States own handguns? You are a big dummy who sits in Kentucky and thinks he has a world view. When did you spend any decent amount of time on another continent. And being there in the service does not count. And I do not know why I ask you questions since you fear them so.

One more time. In english this time please.

Allow me to translate:

"I'm better than you because I'm a liberal European! You should kiss my ass and acknowledge my superiority! Bear in mind I've never done anything to merit it, other than being liberal and European."

 

[westwall]

You know absolutely nothing of my world view, Kentucky, and I notice that you cannot answer my questions.

What I know of your world view I gleaned from your words.

"I know of no one in the United States who owns a handgun or feels the need to."

Your world view is limited and narrow.

Do the majority of families in the United States own handguns? You are a big dummy who sits in Kentucky and thinks he has a world view. When did you spend any decent amount of time on another continent. And being there in the service does not count. And I do not know why I ask you questions since you fear them so.

It depends on where you live. Some cities don't allow personal ownership of handguns (and they have murder rates throught the roof) while certain States (like mine) have almost no controls for those who have not been convicted of a crime or have been deemed mentally incompetent. Our crime rates are unversally low. Most violent crimes in Northern Nevada are commited by gangbangers and illegal aliens (who are themselves gangbangers), it is relatively rare that a crime is commited against someone unknown to the perpetrator.

There are many reasons that cause this imbalance in criminal activity which I don't have the time or inclination to go into, as it would take a small book to delve into all the factors involved.

 

[jerryh60]

This has been a hard thread to keep up with, but we all know that you are never going to convert those that want to ban handguns or strip us of our 2nd amendment rights. That's a given fact, but what are the principles behind the 2nd amendment? It's a fact that the Continental Army by itself would never have been able to remove the British from our country. They relied on the Militia, who were the farmers, store clerks, clergymen, lawyers, and every other normal everyday citizen who answered the call when they were needed. The 2nd amendment is to protect us from a tyrannical government. It's the second hand buying and selling of guns that's the problem, since if you buy a gun from a licensed dealer, you have an on the spot background check done.

Do I own a handgun? Yes I do. Am I a member of the NRA, yes I am along with a few other that lobby for my 2nd amendment rights. Along with that lobbying they promote responsible ownership, in the form of training, schools to promote this responsibility. Teaching you to be a responsible gun owner. Are there crazy people with guns, Hell Yes, but the percentage is low. And most got their guns second hand with no background check being done. That in itself is a problem that needs to be addressed.

I live in a state (Texas) that has probably the most gun owner friendly state there is. The Castle Doctrine in Texas is the best. They allow you to assume anyone breaking into your home is there to do you bodily harm and you have every right to protect your life by shooting them. The fact that I am an armed citizen doesn't mean that I will go out of my to flaunt that or use it in anyway that is not responsible. That's my 2 cents worth gentleman.

 

[NoNukes]

Those of you who want to live in a country where you feel the need to own a handgun to be safe, I pity you.

 

[NoNukes]

What I know of your world view I gleaned from your words.

"I know of no one in the United States who owns a handgun or feels the need to."

Your world view is limited and narrow.

Do the majority of families in the United States own handguns?

NRA-ILA :: Firearm Fact Card 2011

General Information

Privately owned firearms in the U.S.: Approaching 300 million, including nearly 100 million handguns. The number of firearms rises over 4 million annually.
Gun owners in the U.S.: 70-80 million; 40-45 million own handguns
American households that have firearms: 40-45%​

While Gun Ownership Climbs, Murder Keeps Going Down

This week's revelation by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention that homicide is no longer among the leading causes of death in the United States – at a time when gun ownership is at an all-time high – shows that the gun ban lobby has been wrong, the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms said today.

"The CDC's report for 2010 that removes homicide from the top 15 leading causes of death in this country coincides with a period of record high gun ownership," said CCRKBA Chairman Alan Gottlieb. "At the same time, increasing numbers of citizens have obtained concealed carry permits and licenses. This is pretty strong evidence that rising gun ownership does not translate to more violence and murder."​

You're a moron who thinks his opinions are facts. Oh, and thanks for the obligatory leftist hatred of the American South. Your elitism is noted and entirely unmerited.

When did you spend any decent amount of time on another continent. And being there in the service does not count.

You don't get to decide that. I spent a year and a half in Oman, living downtown with Omani neighbors. They're good people.

How about you? And no, posting on an American message board doesn't count.

And I do not know why I ask you questions since you fear them so.

You lack the horsepower to make me fear you, kid. Don't flatter yourself.

So, the majority of American households do not have handguns. Thank you.

I never said any insult about the south, you are paranoid.

I have lived in Europe for 15 years and travel extensively.

What I know from experience is not opinion.

 

[LOki]

Those of you who want to live in a country where you feel the need to own a handgun to be safe, I pity you.

No one is saying you need a handgun to be safe. Having a handgun is one element of being prepared for a plausible contingency. It's like having a hammer, a screwdriver, a knife, a tire-iron, a length of sturdy rope, a first-aid kit, a coil of garden hose, a flashlight, or a fire extinguisher.

Are you also prepared to say;

"Those of you who want to live in a country where you feel the need to own a hammer to drive a nail; a screwdriver to turn a screw; a knife to cut a onion; a tire-iron to change out a flat tire; sturdy rope to secure your cargo; a first-aid kit to attend to injuries; a coil of hose to water your garden; a flashlight to help find your keys in the dark; and/or a fire extinguisher to prevent a small fire from spreading and taking your whole house, I pity you."​

Really, what is your problem with handguns?

 

[daveman]

Those of you who want to live in a country where you feel the need to own a handgun to be safe, I pity you.

I pity those who depend on the state for their safety.

When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

But I supposed being robbed, raped, or murdered is morally superior.

 

[daveman]

So, the majority of American households do not have handguns. Thank you.

I never said any insult about the south, you are paranoid.

I have lived in Europe for 15 years and travel extensively.

What I know from experience is not opinion.

Actually -- it is.

 

[daveman]

Those of you who want to live in a country where you feel the need to own a handgun to be safe, I pity you.

No one is saying you need a handgun to be safe. Having a handgun is one element of being prepared for a plausible contingency. It's like having a hammer, a screwdriver, a knife, a tire-iron, a length of sturdy rope, a first-aid kit, a coil of garden hose, a flashlight, or a fire extinguisher.

Are you also prepared to say;

"Those of you who want to live in a country where you feel the need to own a hammer to drive a nail; a screwdriver to turn a screw; a knife to cut a onion; a tire-iron to change out a flat tire; sturdy rope to secure your cargo; a first-aid kit to attend to injuries; a coil of hose to water your garden; a flashlight to help find your keys in the dark; and/or a fire extinguisher to prevent a small fire from spreading and taking your whole house, I pity you."​

Really, what is your problem with handguns?

They're scary. They kill people all by themselves.

 

[westwall]

Those of you who want to live in a country where you feel the need to own a handgun to be safe, I pity you.

You know, I own over 50 handguns (most are military pistols that are highly valuable) and while they have been in my possession they have never once leapt up and shot someone...not once. Nope, they sit in their display cases and stare at me with great malevolance just waiting for me to make a wrong move and then they'll get me!

 

[NoNukes]

So, the majority of American households do not have handguns. Thank you.

I never said any insult about the south, you are paranoid.

I have lived in Europe for 15 years and travel extensively.

What I know from experience is not opinion.

Actually -- it is.

No, seeing with your own eyes is better than experiencing something by reading. You are too easily led.

 

[NoNukes]

Those of you who want to live in a country where you feel the need to own a handgun to be safe, I pity you.

You know, I own over 50 handguns (most are military pistols that are highly valuable) and while they have been in my possession they have never once leapt up and shot someone...not once. Nope, they sit in their display cases and stare at me with great malevolance just waiting for me to make a wrong move and then they'll get me!

They are in the right hands, America is filled with handguns in the wrong hands. You are way too intelligent for such a post. Leave the humor to people who are actually funny.