Zone1 in your religion, do you cross yourself?

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Didn't think you could answer this question. The famous Admiral can't answer a question.

You can't read because if you could, you would see I was kidding and a snickering emoji! My God, you are the consummate dumbass!

 

[BothWings]

My Catholic wife does it frequently. Leaving the house, passing a cemetery, etc. Catholicism is probably among those religions which I consider farthest from my own beliefs, but I've had a lot of Catholic friends and several lovers. It never was problem for either of us. I believe that having faith in something higher than ourselves does something extraordinary to us, but is not really very dependent on what belief system we subscribe to. That is usually just a product of our cultural upbringing. As a person with strong connections to belief systems such a Buddhism, Hinduism and Native American spiritualism, I believe every person incarnates into a situation where he will be exposed to the spiritual/religious experience he personally and intimately needs for his own spiritual development. It could come from staying with that faith, or even in leaving that faith for another....as long as the person's quest to find that ultimate truth is sincere and comes from within. Ultimately I believe none of the world faiths really quite know where it's all at but the same "great spirit" can permeates them all. Still, they all (or most) believe they are owners of the one and only truth. As long as people truly acknowledge their place as a tiny extension of the Great Spirit itself, it can find them and flow through them. Really doesn't matter if they pray to Mecca, carry a Cross, wear a Star of David or simply meditate in nature calling on Spirit Messengers to guide them. The same spirit will find them there is they are truly asking for it without being so arrogant as to attempt to define it.

Many people, while they may go through the motions of their cultural upbringing (which often includes religion) and use certain learned rituals and symbolism to express their devotion and find a connection to the ultimate spiritual truth, also KNOW this about themselves. They know they are really already connected and the symbolism or the details which just enables that connection. It is simply the acknowledgment and gradual recognition of the Great Spirit as we grow older which brings us closer. The actual religion was just a medium, a vehicle which provided a framework for prayer and practice. There are always limitations as well as advantages provided by those things. That's partly why I don't take any one religion more seriously than the rest. I know which ones have worked for ME. I'm not here to tell people what works for them. As someone who believes there is some truth about reincarnation that we do not fully understand, I believe that the religion we incarnate closest to is important to look at.

In my extended family there have been Catholics, Unitarians and Lutheran's, and also one Mormon and two affirmed atheists. There have never been any substantial issues between anyone in our family over these things....unless I exemplify the Mormon, who had a significant personality change after becoming my involved with the LDS church. However I think that had more to do with her and what her true motives were than the religion. I don't find Mormonism inspiring at all, personally, and at times even find it a little perverse or fanatical. However, that can be true of most other faiths too. I don't blame the Mormons for the negative changes my family went through after joining them.


"The thing we tell of can never be found by seeking, yet only seekers find it," - Sufi mystic Bayazid Bastami


While I am not a Sufi, per se, the above quote very much sums up my view of all religion, and the mechanism of faith in general.

 

[Alter2Ego]

with the hands making the sign of the cross?

we Catholics do

The cross is a pagan symbol. Not only that, scripture indicates Jesus did not die on a cross.

 

[Cougarbear]

You can't read because if you could, you would see I was kidding and a snickering emoji! My God, you are the consummate dumbass!

I saw that. Still had to ask. You still haven't answered the question. Cat got your tongue?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

So, when does a religion, church get so large as not to be a cult anymore?

I never said it was. I was joking!

There's your answer you have been whining about for numerous posts. Now, please just go away because you can't take a little humor.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

A rabbi and a priest were flying on a plane through severe turbulent weather when the pilot came on the intercom and said they had developed engine trouble in addition to the bad weather. Hearing this the priest began crossing himself and praying. As he did he noticed the rabbi doing the same. He asked the rabbi if he was converting at the last minute in case they met their maker. No, said the rabbi. " I was just doing a check of my personal belongings. Spectacles, testicles, wallet and cigars!

 

[Zebra]

The cross is a pagan symbol. Not only that, scripture indicates Jesus did not die on a cross.

who said that?

 

[Cougarbear]

I never said it was. I was joking!

There's your answer you have been whining about for numerous posts. Now, please just go away because you can't take a little humor.

No, I'm asking a serious question to all. When does a cult stop becoming a cult. You may be joking but we still get called a cult even with 18 million members and in almost all countries in the world.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

No, I'm asking a serious question to all. When does a cult stop becoming a cult. You may be joking but we still get called a cult even with 18 million members and in almost all countries in the world.

That's because Catholics do "weird" things for no apparent reason. With most other denominations, there is a reason explained somewhere. Catholics don't seem to have any answers other than we always did it this way.

 

[FoghornLeghorn]

That's because Catholics do "weird" things for no apparent reason. With most other denominations, there is a reason explained somewhere. Catholics don't seem to have any answers other than we always did it this way.

Catholics stick to their traditions even when they violate what the Bible tells us. They're eerily similar to the Pharisees of Jesus's era.

Mark 7:1-13
: Jesus confronts the Pharisees and scribes for criticizing his disciples for eating with unwashed hands, a tradition of the elders. Jesus quotes Isaiah, saying, "These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules".

Matthew 15:3, 6-9
: Jesus likewise denounces the religious leaders for violating God's command to honor parents by using a man-made tradition (corban) to avoid their responsibilities.

 

[Cougarbear]

That's because Catholics do "weird" things for no apparent reason. With most other denominations, there is a reason explained somewhere. Catholics don't seem to have any answers other than we always did it this way.

So, every church and religion are cults to someone else. I think sometimes those who brandish others as cults do so because they are really thinking, Occult. That they worship the devil because their Jesus is different.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

So, every church and religion are cults to someone else. I think sometimes those who brandish others as cults do so because they are really thinking, Occult. That they worship the devil because their Jesus is different.

So, you agree with my assessment of why people think Catholics are a cult! Thank you for that! The same applies for Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc.

 

[Cougarbear]

So, you agree with my assessment of why people think Catholics are a cult! Thank you for that! The same applies for Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc.

Yep! When I was teaching at a Catholic high school, an office worker was having a conversation about a student who was interested in becoming LDS and calling the LDS Church a cult. Then, she saw me and tried to smooth it over by saying it is a good Church just not mainstream in Christianity. I said, well, you know I'm a convert from Judaism. And, Jesus was considered a cult leader as well. So, I'm in good standing with Jesus. I then left the office. Boom! The young man did convert years later after he began dating an LDS member. That was nearly 35 years ago. He's still a strong member of the LDS Church.

 

[Alter2Ego]

The cross is a pagan symbol. Not only that, scripture indicates Jesus did not die on a cross.

who said that?

It's a historical fact that the cross came from pagan religions (religions that do not worship the Abrahamic God). Numerous sources on the Internet confirm it. Below are two such sources, along with the weblink to where I copy-pasted the information.

"Origin of the Cross​

The cross is not a symbol of faith which first appeared after the crucifixion of Jesus, but originated from ancient Babylon.

“The shape of the latter [cross] had its origin in ancient Chaldea, and was used as the symbol of the god Tammuz (being in the shape of the mystic Tau, the initial of his name) in that country and in adjacent lands, including Egypt.”W. E. Vine, “Vine’s Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words”, Thomas Nelson Publishers, 1996, 138p"

Origin and History of the Cross, a Pagan Symbol

The origin of the cross is traced back to the ancient Babylonian worship of Tammuz. Let’s take a look at the historical background of how the cross, an idol of pagan religions, came to get settled in Christianity.

ahnsahnghong.com

"Tracing the Pagan Origins of the Cross Symbol​

The cross, often associated with Christianity, also has origins in ancient pagan traditions. Civilizations such as the Egyptians, Sumerians, and Celts used cross-like symbols to represent life, fertility, and the intersection of earthly and divine domains.

For example, the Egyptian Ankh symbolized life, while the Norse Sun Cross signified the harmony between earth and cosmos. Pagan cultures imbued the cross with spiritual and cosmological significance long before it became a Christian icon associated with crucifixion and resurrection.

No Page Found - symbolall

symbolall.com

 

[Zebra]

It's a historical fact that the cross came from pagan religions (religions that do not worship the Abrahamic God). Numerous sources on the Internet confirm it. Below are two such sources, along with the weblink to where I copy-pasted the information.

"Origin of the Cross​

The cross is not a symbol of faith which first appeared after the crucifixion of Jesus, but originated from ancient Babylon.

“The shape of the latter [cross] had its origin in ancient Chaldea, and was used as the symbol of the god Tammuz (being in the shape of the mystic Tau, the initial of his name) in that country and in adjacent lands, including Egypt.”W. E. Vine, “Vine’s Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words”, Thomas Nelson Publishers, 1996, 138p"

Origin and History of the Cross, a Pagan Symbol

The origin of the cross is traced back to the ancient Babylonian worship of Tammuz. Let’s take a look at the historical background of how the cross, an idol of pagan religions, came to get settled in Christianity.

ahnsahnghong.com

"Tracing the Pagan Origins of the Cross Symbol​

The cross, often associated with Christianity, also has origins in ancient pagan traditions. Civilizations such as the Egyptians, Sumerians, and Celts used cross-like symbols to represent life, fertility, and the intersection of earthly and divine domains.

For example, the Egyptian Ankh symbolized life, while the Norse Sun Cross signified the harmony between earth and cosmos. Pagan cultures imbued the cross with spiritual and cosmological significance long before it became a Christian icon associated with crucifixion and resurrection.

No Page Found - symbolall

symbolall.com

what do Christians say about this?

 

[Zebra]

even Martin Luther said that one may cross onself .... bekreuzigen in German

 

[Alter2Ego]

It's a historical fact that the cross came from pagan religions (religions that do not worship the Abrahamic God). Numerous sources on the Internet confirm it. Below are two such sources, along with the weblink to where I copy-pasted the information.

what do Christians say about this?

Zebra:

If you're referring to members of the 41,000+ denominations within Christendom, they could care less where ANY pagan tradition came from. They have no problem with the following pagan traditions:

1. The Trinity in which members of Christendom claim that Jehovah God the Father, his created son Jesus Christ, and God's holy spirit are three persons combined into a single god and all three persons are co-equal and co-eternal. Never mind that there are no scriptures in the 66 books of the Bible--when read within context--that supports Christendom's trinity. And never mind that Jesus made it clear to his disciples that he is inferior to Jehovah the Father.

John 14:28​

You heard that I said to you, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I am.


Never mind that the Bible repeatedly says Jesus had a beginning and that Jesus literally died. Never mind that eternal person cannot have a beginning and cannot die.

John 1:1​

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.



"The Trinity doctrine is not unique to, nor original with, Christianity. It has deep Pagan roots, dating back to at least two centuries BC, and has been prominent in many Eastern religions ever since.

The Roman Catholic and Orthodox Church Councils (Western and Eastern churches) brought the Trinity doctrine into Christianity. This occurred before there was a final split between the two over authority. Even those who voted the idea into Roman Catholic dogma declared it was a mystery that had to be accepted by faith."

Pagan Roots of the Trinity Doctrine - BiblicalUnitarian.com

The Trinity doctrine is not unique to, nor original with, Christianity. It has deep Pagan roots, dating back to at least two centuries BC, and has been...

www.biblicalunitarian.com

I will provide you with a couple more examples of the pagan beliefs that members of Christendom have no problem believing but will do so in separate posts.

 

[Mr Natural]

I don’t have a religion anymore, but back in the day when I did, yes, I crossed myself.

 

[Alter2Ego]

It's a historical fact that the cross came from pagan religions (religions that do not worship the Abrahamic God). Numerous sources on the Internet confirm it. Below are two such sources, along with the weblink to where I copy-pasted the information.

what do Christians say about this?

Zebra:

Below are two more of the many pagan doctrines that are to be found within Christendom.


2. Celebration of Easter as the resurrection of Jesus from the dead. Never mind the fact the customs of Easter (easter eggs and rabbits) were copied from the pagan god of fertility. And never mind that Jesus instructed his disciples to do the exact opposite in terms of what to celebrate: Jesus instructed his disciples to observe his death.

Luke 22:19​

Also, he took a loaf, gave thanks, broke it, and gave it to them, saying: “This means my body, which is to be given in your behalf. Keep doing this in remembrance of me.”

"The origins of Easter can be traced back to ancient pagan celebrations of the vernal equinox, which were observed in numerous cultures around the globe. As symbols of new life and rebirth, these celebrations frequently included feasting, dancing, and the exchange of eggs in Europe. With the spread of Christianity, these pagan traditions were incorporated into the new religion, and Easter took on a new significance as a celebration of Jesus Christ's resurrection."

Uncovering the Origins of Easter: From Pagan Traditions to Christian Beliefs

BY THE ARCHAEOLOGIST EDITOR GROUP

www.thearchaeologist.org

3. Celebration of Christmas as the birthday of Jesus. (Never mind that the customs of Christmas were taken from the pagan celebration in Rome known as the Saturnalia (the birthday of the unconquered sun), etc. And never mind that Jesus instructed his disciples to do the exact opposite in terms of what to celebrate: As stated above, Jesus instructed his disciples to observe his death.

"Saturnalia, the most popular of Roman festivals. Dedicated to the Roman god Saturn, the festival’s influence continues to be felt throughout the Western world.
. . . .

"The influence of the Saturnalia upon the celebrations of Christmas and the New Year has been direct. The fact that Christmas was celebrated on the birthday of the unconquered sun (dies solis invicti nati) gave the season a solar background, connected with the kalends of January (January 1, the Roman New Year) when houses were decorated with greenery and lights, and presents were given to children and the poor. Concerning the gift candles, the Romans had a story that an old prophecy bade the earliest inhabitants of Latium send heads to Hades and phota to Saturn. The ancient Latins interpreted this to mean human sacrifices, but, according to legend, Hercules advised using lights (phos means “light” or “man” according to accent) and not human heads."

Saturnalia | Celebration, Sacrifice, & Influence on Christmas | Britannica

History of the Roman festival of Saturnalia, with treatment of the celebration and its influence on Christmas.

www.britannica.com