Zone1 In what way was John the Baptist, also "Elijah?"

[DennisPTate]

I used to believe in the "Soul Sleep" doctrine but once I found near death experience accounts I was faced with many questions.

In what way was John the Baptist connected to the Prophet Elijah who lived several centuries before the time of John the Baptist and his cousin Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus?

A near death experiencer was told very plainly about the idea that our human spirit or soul pre-exists in other time periods. Was this Messiah Yeshua - Jesus who told him about this?

[John J. Davis] :

Past Lives​

The next building he took me to was another large building with columns all along the front and the sides. He took me inside, and one of the rooms he took me to looked just like a theater, like we have today. There was a single movie screen in front, and my guide said, “I’m going to show you past lifetimes.” This was something I had a hard time with because, being a Catholic, being raised in the church and reading the Bible, there is no talk of past lifetimes. But the truth is, we are eternal. We exist forever; we never die. We can have many, many lifetimes—as many as we want. It’s totally up to us.

He said, “I’m going to show you some different lifetimes.” All of a sudden, the screen turned on, and the first life he showed me, I was a monk. I had a shaved head, and I was wearing a red gown or tunic, and I was teaching kids. In that lifetime, my job was to teach kids about life in a monastery. What was so interesting is I knew by looking at this where that lifetime occurred, and it was somewhere in Southeast Asia. Then it went blank.

Then the screen came on again, and he showed me another life. This time I was a shoe peddler. I had a little wheelbarrow with a bunch of shoes in it. My job in that lifetime was I fixed people’s shoes. I would go to their homes in the village, get the shoes they wanted me to fix, take them back to my shop, fix them, and then bring them back to the people. That was my job. That life took place somewhere in Eastern Europe. Then that life disappeared.

Then another life showed up, and this was of a fisherman. I was a fisherman in a little raggedy boat on a lake. I had nets, and I was tossing these nets into the water, and part of my job in that life was to help feed the community through catching fish. That lifetime happened somewhere in the Middle East.

That’s when I realized—wow—we really do have past lifetimes. We can have as many lifetimes as we want, or as few as we want. It’s totally up to us. That was the building where we go to view past lifetimes.

Past Lives - John J. Davis Near-Death Experience

The next building he took me to—and this is probably one of the most beautiful buildings that he showed me—was an absolutely beautiful round building...

johnjdavisnde.com

It certainly does seem as if Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus says that John the Baptist was somehow the Prophet Elijah here again?

And it came to pass, when Jesus had made an end of commanding his twelve disciples, he departed thence to teach and to preach in their cities.

2 ;Now when John had heard in the prison the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples,

3 And said unto him, Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another?

4 Jesus answered and said unto them, Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see:

5 ;The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.

6 ;And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.

7 ;And as they departed, Jesus began to say unto the multitudes concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind?

8 ;But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? behold, they that wear soft clothing are in kings' houses.

9 ;But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet.

10 ;For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

11 ;Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

13; For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

14; And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come."
[Matthew 12]

Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 11 - King James Version

And it came to pass, when Jesus had made an end of commanding his twelve disciples, he departed thence to teach and to preach in their cities. Now when John had heard in the prison the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples, And said unto him, Art thou he that should come, or do we look...

www.biblegateway.com

I personally do believe that there is a lot of truth in the idea of reincarnation but I am rather challenged as to why during near death experiences with His own people Jesus does NOT always make the full truth about all of this clear and easy to understand.

My belief is that Messiah Yeshua - Jesus gives a lot of truth to each group but permits all of us to face contradictions as a test of our ability to respect others who do not look at the big picture exactly as we do?

[Near death experiencer Bruce F. MacDonald Ph.D].:


"The Father said to me one evening in my time of meditation, “You wonder that people other than the Jews have the secrets of the Kingdom as well as you. As you have been instructed before, the secrets of the Kingdom have been given to many people, but to no one in their complete form, so that each, seeking in their own way, may gradually come closer to me, but no one group can say, ‘I have the secret and you are excluded.’ Indeed, any who say that, have already put themselves outside of the Kingdom, because the Kingdom comes by Love, and Love is a working together. Love is not exclusively for one group.”

“In the end of the Age, peoples from all parts of the earth will bring their knowledge together and will find the Inner Way to me by working together. So, read and know what has been given to others, that your knowledge may be complete and you may be able to come to Me, all working together in Love.” (Bruce F. MacDonald Ph. D.)

The Thomas Book Near Death, a Quest and a New Gospel by the Twin Brother of Jesus: MacDonald PH D, Bruce Fraser: 9781608608195: Books - Amazon.ca

The Thomas Book Near Death, a Quest and a New Gospel by the Twin Brother of Jesus: MacDonald PH D, Bruce Fraser: 9781608608195: Books - Amazon.ca

www.amazon.ca

 

[luiza]

In the context of Universe all souls are Consciousness and it is only here in the Materium that we fall under the Time illusion and the Whole being made of infinite parts .

A very complex matter for Sheeple to comprehend .

 

[DennisPTate]

In the context of Universe all souls are Consciousness and it is only here in the Materium that we fall under the Time illusion and the Whole being made of infinite parts .

A very complex matter for Sheeple to comprehend .

Wow!

Luiza your answer is absolutely accurate, profound, deep and brilliant!

Thank you! Wow!

In a way I began to study all of this in 1972 or '73 when I was brought up out of Atheism into belief in the "Soul Sleep" theory by TV Evangelist Garner Ted Armstrong.

By 1990 to 1993 I was introduced to this entire topic in a whole new light through near death experience accounts.

Luiza, I notice that you are from England. I have something of an intellectual challenge for you, [partly due to the obvious fact that my last name "Tate" is obviously partly "English?"

Am I an idiot to be thinking that this is an exceptionally good interview of a near death experiencer by Pastors Carol and John Arnott?




At Home with John & Carol Featuring Ian McCormack

 

[JohnDB]

First off you have completely missed out on what a prophet is.

A prophet was not a mystic fortune teller of sorts that told the future.

A prophet spoke for God in three ways: preaching, forthtelling current truths, and foretelling the consequences of current actions.
(Personal favorite was Joel who was just a simple working guy)

Being a prophet of God when the king was more interested in other false gods was not exactly comfortable.

As such both John the Baptist and Elijah spoke out directly against the Kings in their jurisdictions in a personal level. Both prepared the way for Messengers of God that were not just going to speak but act in real world tangible ways. Both were euphamistacally "judgement" that would be followed by "blessings".

Both prophets were literally hunted by the kings....the technicality of Herod being a tetriarch is not much of a technicality. (He married/stole his brothers wife) Ahaz had married a woman he wasn't supposed to marry either.

John the Baptist warned about the total destruction of Israel for the sinful lifestyles of everyone including the religious leadership.....no different from Elijah.

Jehu was the element of doom for Israel that Elijah spoke of (Assyria) and the Roman empire was the element of doom for for Israel spoken by John the Baptist.

The only difference between them was not in their mental breakdowns (both had those as well) but in their literal endings. Elijah was taken up in a whirlwind and John got beheaded.
John also was the one who instituted a new precept riesthood of every Believer. Until John's baptism only priests could offer up sins to be forgiven and only priests could speak, repeat, explain about scripture.

But the "Spirit of Elijah" was all about the preparation of the Messenger to come while proclaiming doom.

 

[DennisPTate]

First off you have completely missed out on what a prophet is.

A prophet was not a mystic fortune teller of sorts that told the future.

A prophet spoke for God in three ways: preaching, forthtelling current truths, and foretelling the consequences of current actions.
(Personal favorite was Joel who was just a simple working guy)

Being a prophet of God when the king was more interested in other false gods was not exactly comfortable.

As such both John the Baptist and Elijah spoke out directly against the Kings in their jurisdictions in a personal level. Both prepared the way for Messengers of God that were not just going to speak but act in real world tangible ways. Both were euphamistacally "judgement" that would be followed by "blessings".

Both prophets were literally hunted by the kings....the technicality of Herod being a tetriarch is not much of a technicality. (He married/stole his brothers wife) Ahaz had married a woman he wasn't supposed to marry either.

John the Baptist warned about the total destruction of Israel for the sinful lifestyles of everyone including the religious leadership.....no different from Elijah.

Jehu was the element of doom for Israel that Elijah spoke of (Assyria) and the Roman empire was the element of doom for for Israel spoken by John the Baptist.

The only difference between them was not in their mental breakdowns (both had those as well) but in their literal endings. Elijah was taken up in a whirlwind and John got beheaded.
John also was the one who instituted a new precept riesthood of every Believer. Until John's baptism only priests could offer up sins to be forgiven and only priests could speak, repeat, explain about scripture.

But the "Spirit of Elijah" was all about the preparation of the Messenger to come while proclaiming doom.

Your answer is excellent, thank you!

By the name Ahaz in the following sentence did you really mean "Ahab?"

"Both prophets were literally hunted by the kings....the technicality of Herod being a tetriarch is not much of a technicality. (He married/stole his brothers wife) Ahaz had married a woman he wasn't supposed to marry either." [JohnDB]

JohnDB, can you give me the name of an elected official who you admire and you feel that this person is destined to play the role of diplomat, educator, as well as be "anointed" on at least some level?

I believe that elected officials should be free to express their ideas on government and the political situation of our time. I am of the belief that Pastor Steve Long did a brilliant job of explaining the situation that my nation, Canada, was in back in 2015.

I also belief that Pastor Steve Long gave Mr. Justin Trudeau a prophecy from the G-d of Abraham that was nearly impossible to properly understand until now in 2025.

[Pastor Steve Long] :

Steve Long
13 hrs · Oakville ·




So I haven't posted anything so far about the Canadian election. Tonight I am giving my opinion as a Christian Canadian. I recognize that some of my points may not be seen by all as truly representing that party. I'm not looking for a debate, simply to share my perspectives. My voting history has been split between Liberal and Conservative. So far I haven't felt that an NDP leader or the party has represented my values to garner my vote.


As a Canadian the choices are relatively simple. If you think the economy is the prime issue you'll vote for Stephen Harper and the Conservatives. Most business executives I know vote blue. If you feel that adding to Canada's debt so infrastructure and jobs can be created, then Justin Trudeau and the Liberals is the way you should go. Most small business owners vote red. If you feel that environmental and social issues are the prime issues, then Tom Mulcair is the man and the NDP are your party. Most of our lower income Canadians vote orange.

As a Christian Canadian, the issues in the spirit realm take priority for me.

• Sadly abortion is not a voting topic as I see it. None of the parties is up to changing the current laws in favor of the unborn.
• Religious freedoms are neutral as well. While only the Conservatives will keep the Ambassador of Religious Freedom office, sadly Andrew Bennett's department lacks real power.
• All parties are agreed with about 250,000 refugees each year. The challenge is how that number is divided up. Opening more spots for refugees from Syria is great but that means taking away from other conflict areas.

There are two big issues that I believe affect nations. God blesses nations and curses them on two primary topics. Israel and righteousness (laws of the land).

Stephen Harper has clearly stood on the side of Isreal. Justin Trudeau will sever that relationship and strengthen ties with groups that I see as anti-Semitic and promoting terrorism. Tom Mulcair is in the middle. His wife is Jewish and his in-laws were holocaust survivors so he stands with Israel. At the same time, he doesn't see Hamas and Hezbollah in as negative light as I do. Those who bless Israel are blessed and those who curse Israel are cursed! Numbers 24:9

Righteousness exalts a nation! Proverbs 14:34 So what party will bring in policies that best match the teachings of Jesus and reflect God's laws.
- I look at some of the ads from the NDP and in my view they openly state support for principles that God opposes. Mr. Mulcair has stated that evangelicals are un-Canadian. Not good.
- I have met Justin Trudeau three times. I prophesied to him about 8 years ago that God wanted him as the leader of the Liberal party of Canada. Sadly my last meeting with him in his office was very disappointing. He told John & Carol Arnott and me that evangelical Christians were the worst part of Canadian society. Not good.

- While I am very disappointed that Stephen Harper hasn't changed the abortion laws in Canada with his majority government, I do feel that he matches the moral law of God better than the other party leaders. That he is a committed follower of Jesus is a good thing. Being a follower of Jesus doesn't make one a great leader. But, it does help in the moral issues that come to the desk of Canada's leader!

So, on Monday I will be voting for Stephen Harper and the local Conservative MP.

God bless Canada!" [Pastor Steve Long, October 18, 2015]

I could be wrong, I often am, but I strongly suspect that President Donald J. Trump, in spite of his many, many, many flaws, has set up Alberta's Premier Ms. Danielle Smith to play a more important role in the future of Canada and the world than is being done by Prime Minister Mark Carney?!

If several of the aspiring national leaders of the N. D. P. would show the courage to meet personally with Pastors John and Carol Arnott and Pastors Steve and Sandra Long, I believe that the extreme animosity that Christians have been receiving here in Canada could be significantly decreased.

Over this past year Christian Worship Leader Sean Feucht was harassed and threatened by extremely left wing thinkers who believed that this man was "evil" just because he was not on the exact same page as they were in terms of "world view."

 

[DennisPTate]

Your answer is excellent, thank you!

By the name Ahaz in the following sentence did you really mean "Ahab?"



JohnDB, can you give me the name of an elected official who you admire and you feel that this person is destined to play the role of diplomat, educator, as well as be "anointed" on at least some level?

I believe that elected officials should be free to express their ideas on government and the political situation of our time. I am of the belief that Pastor Steve Long did a brilliant job of explaining the situation that my nation, Canada, was in back in 2015.

I also belief that Pastor Steve Long gave Mr. Justin Trudeau a prophecy from the G-d of Abraham that was nearly impossible to properly understand until now in 2025.





I could be wrong, I often am, but I strongly suspect that President Donald J. Trump, in spite of his many, many, many flaws, has set up Alberta's Premier Ms. Danielle Smith to play a more important role in the future of Canada and the world than is being done by Prime Minister Mark Carney?!

If several of the aspiring national leaders of the N. D. P. would show the courage to meet personally with Pastors John and Carol Arnott and Pastors Steve and Sandra Long, I believe that the extreme animosity that Christians have been receiving here in Canada could be significantly decreased.

Over this past year Christian Worship Leader Sean Feucht was harassed and threatened by extremely left wing thinkers who believed that this man was "evil" just because he was not on the exact same page as they were in terms of "world view."

 

[JohnDB]

By the name Ahaz in the following sentence did you really mean "Ahab?"

Of course! After reading and learning this stuff 20+ years ago my memory starts to get a bit fuzzy on minor details....although Ahaz and Ahab were two distinctly different kings in Israeli history.

I think I definitely need to refresh myself because just last week I completely blew the timeline on Joash and Jehoida in SS class. I'll have to wait until after the holidays though. I'm up to my armpits in cookie dough, gingerbread houses, and chocolate truffles.

The stuff with Canada? I have zero idea.
Even if I think Trump is a bit like Pilate: a brute at times with an extremely sharp tongue but completely savvy and not specifically evil. Just a man with a job to do that knows exactly how, what, and why a job needs to be done. IOW do not stand in his way or else you will get bulldozed over.

Trudeau? Last I heard, he was in trouble with his electorate. Things are getting kinda scary up there with limits on free speech and medical patients with treatable illnesses are being offered Euthanasia instead of being transferred to the doctors that can cure them.

Just be careful....all will seem to be fine until it's not...a harsh winter is coming.

 

[DennisPTate]

Of course! After reading and learning this stuff 20+ years ago my memory starts to get a bit fuzzy on minor details....although Ahaz and Ahab were two distinctly different kings in Israeli history.

I think I definitely need to refresh myself because just last week I completely blew the timeline on Joash and Jehoida in SS class. I'll have to wait until after the holidays though. I'm up to my armpits in cookie dough, gingerbread houses, and chocolate truffles.

The stuff with Canada? I have zero idea.
Even if I think Trump is a bit like Pilate: a brute at times with an extremely sharp tongue but completely savvy and not specifically evil. Just a man with a job to do that knows exactly how, what, and why a job needs to be done. IOW do not stand in his way or else you will get bulldozed over.

Trudeau? Last I heard, he was in trouble with his electorate. Things are getting kinda scary up there with limits on free speech and medical patients with treatable illnesses are being offered Euthanasia instead of being transferred to the doctors that can cure them.

Just be careful....all will seem to be fine until it's not...a harsh winter is coming.

Your comments on our situation up here in Canada is truly insightful.

On a somewhat humorous note I actually made an attempt back in 2011 and 2012 to rival Mr. Justin Trudeau for the office of "National Leader of Canada's Liberal Party." Losing elections was a hobby of mine since 2004 so losing a campaign for the office of Prime Minister, sounded like a somewhat fun idea].

I try to put a somewhat humous spin on world events. Lately I have been wondering if the real goal that Prime Minister Justin Trudeau had was to make Kamala UNELECTABLE IN 2024?! That could sound like the most amazingly crazy idea that you have ever heard but.......
wait until you hear a video that is now only on Rumble but while it was still on youtube I shared this video all over the place]?!

It is a fact that there are high ranking members of CSIS, [the Canadian equivalent of the NSA and CIA], who are even more so Trump supporters, than I am?!

Some of them could well pass a script to Prime Minister Justin Trudeau to read that they would know would go viral all over the USA and voila....... Kamala is UNELECTABLE in 2024?!

Canada tells us of Covid21 -the plan now what is coming

Why in the world would Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, [ or perhaps some officials near him], release the information in that video that is now only available on Rumble?

Could it be that some influential Canadians were using Canada as a "stage of sorts" to accomplish something toward "Making America Great Again?"

 

[Cassandro]

It is my understanding that "reincarnation" means existence in more than one physical form (at different times). This seems to conflict with the concept of an individual soul. Unless one believes in Nirvana, the soul would be trapped in a continuous loop of earthly existence.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

used to believe in the "Soul Sleep" doctrine but once I found near death experience accounts I was faced with many questions

In all my years I've never called death "soul sleep" until now, from you.

From man's perspective DEATH IS DEATH as in NO LIFE.

The only person qualified to refer to death as "sleep" is GOD because He alone can wake you up.

That is the whole Gospel message.

The soul that sin, IT SHALL DIE
But the GIFT of God is ETERNAL LIFE

 

[DennisPTate]

In all my years I've never called death "soul sleep" until now, from you.

From man's perspective DEATH IS DEATH as in NO LIFE.

The only person qualified to refer to death as "sleep" is GOD because He alone can wake you up.

That is the whole Gospel message.

The soul that sin, IT SHALL DIE
But the GIFT of God is ETERNAL LIFE

I am actually thankful for what Pastor General Herbert W. Armstrong taught because it was instrumental in getting me out of Atheism.

Now that I have read NDE accounts I can no longer spiritualize away the parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man as I could do forty years ago.

Pastor General Herbert W. Armstrong's teaching on how the dead are absolutely dead until their appropriate resurrection, [either at the Seventh Trumpet to meet Messiah Yeshua - Jesus in the air, or about a thousand years later in the Ezekiel 37 and Revelation chapter twenty one resurrection], the way that he taught will not fit with Revelation chapter six.

And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10;And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11;And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

[Revelation 6]

Bible Gateway passage: Revelation 6 - King James Version

And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see. And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer. And...

www.biblegateway.com