In a First, U.S. Admits Drones Have Killed 4 Americans

[Sunshine]

"...And will you be the one flying the foreign nationals here to stand trial, and be availed of due process of law as he has already done for them? Would you be that puppy, snoopy?"

Dumb it down for me today, Sunshine... I'm really not sure what you're trying to get at... I have my suspicions, but I'm just not sure, and this sounds important enough to seek clarification... thanks.

This should explain it. It has already happened.

Terrorists Shouldn't Be Tried in the Same Courts as U.S. Citizens | Debate Club | US News Opinion

I do not believe that an American on any soil should be targeted and killed without due process of law while foreigners are brought here and tried in the same courts as American citizens.

 

[Kondor3]

"...And will you be the one flying the foreign nationals here to stand trial, and be availed of due process of law as he has already done for them? Would you be that puppy, snoopy?"

Dumb it down for me today, Sunshine... I'm really not sure what you're trying to get at... I have my suspicions, but I'm just not sure, and this sounds important enough to seek clarification... thanks.

This should explain it. It has already happened.

Terrorists Shouldn't Be Tried in the Same Courts as U.S. Citizens | Debate Club | US News Opinion

I do not believe that an American on any soil should be targeted and killed without due process of law while foreigners are brought here and tried in the same courts as American citizens.

Well, I read the article, and looked at your "I do not believe" statement, and I must confess that I'm just not getting the connection, but, perhaps it's a matter of disagreeing over circumstances...

The 'foreigners' being brought here for trial were extracted from countries and regions where it was practicable for us to conduct ground operations and to arrest them.

The 'Americans' being targeted by drones overseas are holed-up in countries and regions where it is not practicable for us to conduct ground operations and to arrest them...

I see the two as Apples-and-Oranges - largely incomparable - because of the 'accessibility' factor... who we can get-at, and who we cannot...

For anybody that is soooooo frigging dangerous that we would actually risk overflying somebody's airspace and spend dozens of thousands of dollars in sortie operational costs and risk a $4million Predator drone and shoot a couple of $70K Hellfire missiles at them...

If we devise and follow suitable Control and Review and Kill-Order and Targeting protocols under such circumstances, I say that's better than letting a bad, dangerous guy get away, possibly never to be found again, and a lost opportunity to save other American lives...

But that's just me...

Mind you, from what I understand so far, I do not believe that we have adequate safeguards and controls and accountability already in-place, and that some of the earlier sorties were rather shabby affairs, from the vantage point of control and accountability...

But that does not negate the relative merit and value of such strikes, once such controls and accountability are in place...

Or so it seems to this observer...

 

[g5000]

In the context of war, many innocent people are killed. That has always been an unfortunate fact of war. Whether it was a stray cannonball, or the result of carpet bombing, or the result of a drone missile gone awry, or just plain being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

All these histrionics over lost innocent lives as if this was some new great horror never before seen in the annals of human history is bullshit. Americans do not possess any magical unicorn dust which makes them immune to being accidentally killed as the result of a bombing mission on an enemy site.

Any attempts to imply the deaths of the three Americans was purposeful, absent any evidence whatsoever, is to be an asshole with a partisan agenda and not an objective viewpoint.

As for the one who was deliberatly targeted, I have absolutely no problem with him being killed. He was a terrorist out to kill innocent Americans ON PURPOSE. And that is the difference between a terrorist and everyone else.

Any innocent lives lost during war are on the bad guys, not the good guys.

And we're the good guys. So suck it.

 

[tinydancer]

He will try but won't find one.





http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/10/w...aki-a-us-citizen-in-americas-cross-hairs.html

Gibbs response when asked about this kill of the son is beyond chilling.

Check out his justification at the time. He says the child's father was irresponsible for joining AQ.

Ergo tough shit for that kid from Denver. Too bad, so sad, daddy was a terrorist so the kid's life was worthless to the administration.

How does Team Obama justify killing him?

The answer Gibbs gave is chilling.

ADAMSON: ...It's an American citizen that is being targeted without due process, without trial. And, he's underage. He's a minor.

GIBBS: I would suggest that you should have a far more responsible father if they are truly concerned about the well being of their children.

I don't think becoming an al Qaeda jihadist terrorist is the best way to go about doing your business.

Again, note that this kid wasn't killed in the same drone strike as his father. He was hit by a drone strike elsewhere, and by the time he was killed, his father had already been dead for two weeks.

Gibbs nevertheless defends the strike, not by arguing that the kid was a threat, or that killing him was an accident, but by saying that his late father irresponsibly joined al Qaeda terrorists.

How Team Obama Justifies the Killing of a 16-Year-Old American - Conor Friedersdorf - The Atlantic

Scary, your parent does something wrong and you have not set a good example and you are killed, so what it was your fathers fault!

'Far More Responsible Father' ...

I remember being upset at Gibb's idiotic remarks when he made them and still am today.

I heard an interview with Jeremy Scahill who has written a book called Dirty Wars: The World Is A Battlefield.

I think it was on CBC Radio. Boy oh boy. It was very disturbing. I've ordered the book thru my library.

This article is an eye opener. It deals with the assassinations of these Americans.

https://www.commondreams.org/view/2013/04/25-9

 

[g5000]

Heh. tinydancer just linked to Common Dreams!

Wonders never cease...

 

[YoungRepublican]

Any of us who have traveled to the middle east could be.

Dont go to the Middle-East then. You have two options as far as I can see it. Either we accept drone warfare and make it as deadly and accurate as humanly possible or we keep risking American lives to extract kills. I will guarantee you anything that you want that if you are not somewhat involved in an activity that is detrimental to the U.S. or her allies than you should have no legitimate concern about a drone killing you..

Have you thought that some may not have a choice in going? Aside you say one is risking American lives for extract kills, what about the three killed by accident. They were American lives too, no?

Yes and it is a shame that in order to keep you safe an American who may or may not be linked to terrorist activities lost their lives, but what are you going to do? its cost-benefit analysis, to me, those three men were just a casualty of war

 

[hortysir]

Link to al -Awlaki's son, an American citizen being declared an enemy combatant?

Was Jude Mohammed and enemy combatant as well, I wonder.

Does it matter? Drone warfare is the warfare of the future. WE are currently in its earliest years and if a terrorists son happens to get caught in the middle, then so be it. I dont mean to be cold, but no one on this board or in your small realm of human connection is in any danger of a drone strike. Keep me and mine safe and keep sending those killing machines out to take care of business.

Never mind that we're violating another sovereign country's airspace without their permission and dropping bombs on their towns, hunh?

The son wasn't "caught in the middle".
He was TARGETED.
He wasn't standing near a terrorist or in their neighborhood, dumbass.
He was an American citizen trying to find out what happened to his dad

 

[g5000]

Never mind that we're violating another sovereign country's airspace without their permission and dropping bombs on their towns, hunh?

Ummm...

Yemen’s leader said Saturday that he personally approves every U.S. drone strike in his country and described the remotely piloted aircraft as a technical marvel that has helped reverse al-Qaeda’s gains.

In interview, Yemeni president acknowledges approving U.S. drone strikes - Washington Post

 

[tinydancer]

For those that don't have a problem with drone assassinations of American citizens without due process, how do you feel about wasting time on a trial for Major Hassan or the surviving Boston Marathon bomber?

Why haven't these men just been taken out and executed if it's alright to assassinate others without trial?

 

[g5000]

According to officials familiar with the deliberations, the lawyers threw themselves into the project and swiftly completed a short memorandum. It preliminarily concluded, based on the evidence available at the time, that Mr. Awlaki was a lawful target because he was participating in the war with Al Qaeda and also because he was a specific threat to the country. The overlapping reasoning justified a strike either by the Pentagon, which generally operated within the Congressional authorization to use military force against Al Qaeda, or by the C.I.A., a civilian agency which generally operated within a “national self-defense” framework deriving from a president’s security powers.

They also analyzed other bodies of law to see whether they would render a strike impermissible, concluding that they did not. For example, the Yemeni government had granted permission for airstrikes on its soil as long as the United States did not acknowledge its role, so such strikes would not violate Yemeni sovereignty.

How a U.S. Citizen Came to Be in America’s Cross Hairs

 

[hortysir]

Never mind that we're violating another sovereign country's airspace without their permission and dropping bombs on their towns, hunh?

Ummm...

Yemen’s leader said Saturday that he personally approves every U.S. drone strike in his country and described the remotely piloted aircraft as a technical marvel that has helped reverse al-Qaeda’s gains.

In interview, Yemeni president acknowledges approving U.S. drone strikes - Washington Post

Thanks for that.
First I heard of it.

Can we say the same about Pakistan or any routes to and/or from either country?

And I thought Yemen had the most splintered "government" in the world

 

[g5000]

For those that don't have a problem with drone assassinations of American citizens without due process, how do you feel about wasting time on a trial for Major Hassan or the surviving Boston Marathon bomber?

Why haven't these men just been taken out and executed if it's alright to assassinate others without trial?

You apparently cannot tell the difference between someone who is inside US domestic jurisdiction and someone who is operating outside the US in a military operating theater!

Wow.

Fortunately, sane people can.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Apparently, due process is something a lot of folks here seem willing to discard for the expediency of perceived safety. But that isn't very surprising, even though the whole idea of this country gets completely lost in such actions and puts the slippery in slippery slope.

But again, as long as its not your neighbors house that is bombed, at least not yet, you're more than willing to watch from a few thousand miles away and armchair both the rights of our citizens and the sovereignty of another nation in the name of "national security".

Shameful, but not very surprising anymore.

 

[whitehall]

The president of the United States ordered the execution of 4 Americans because it was too difficult to capture them and bring them to trial. Scary stuff.

 

[g5000]

Never mind that we're violating another sovereign country's airspace without their permission and dropping bombs on their towns, hunh?

Ummm...

Yemen’s leader said Saturday that he personally approves every U.S. drone strike in his country and described the remotely piloted aircraft as a technical marvel that has helped reverse al-Qaeda’s gains.

In interview, Yemeni president acknowledges approving U.S. drone strikes - Washington Post

Thanks for that.
First I heard of it.

Can we say the same about Pakistan or any routes to and/or from either country?

And I thought Yemen had the most splintered "government" in the world

Pakistan Ends Drone Strikes in Blow to U.S. War on Terror - Bloomberg

Singer said that “for several years, Pakistan has openly said, ‘How dare you violate our sovereignty,’ but it turned out the CIA was flying from Pakistani bases with Pakistan’s permission.”

 

[g5000]

The president of the United States ordered the execution of 4 Americans because it was too difficult to capture them and bring them to trial. Scary stuff.

No, he ordered the execution of ONE American who was in an overseas military operations theater.

 

[g5000]

Apparently, due process is something a lot of folks here seem willing to discard for the expediency of perceived safety. But that isn't very surprising, even though the whole idea of this country gets completely lost in such actions and puts the slippery in slippery slope.

But again, as long as its not your neighbors house that is bombed, at least not yet, you're more than willing to watch from a few thousand miles away and armchair both the rights of our citizens and the sovereignty of another nation in the name of "national security".

Shameful, but not very surprising anymore.

Can you name a single terrorist captured on US soil since 9/11 who has not had their day in US court?

 

[hortysir]

For those that don't have a problem with drone assassinations of American citizens without due process, how do you feel about wasting time on a trial for Major Hassan or the surviving Boston Marathon bomber?

Why haven't these men just been taken out and executed if it's alright to assassinate others without trial?

You apparently cannot tell the difference between someone who is inside US domestic jurisdiction and someone who is operating outside the US in a military operating theater!

Wow.

Fortunately, sane people can.

I know we were "in theater" in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Yemen and Pakistan, though??

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Irrelevant. But yes.

Man Connected to Boston Marathon Bombers Is Shot and Killed by the FBI - Dashiell Bennett - The Atlantic Wire

An FBI special agent shot and killed a man in Orlando, Florida, early on Wednesday morning, just hours after he was interrogated about the Boston Marathon bombings. The man, who was identified as 27-year-old Ibragim Todashev, was reportedly an acquaintance of Tamerlan Tsarnaev, who he met through the world of mixed martial arts. Like Tsarnaev, he was a Chechen-born Muslim, but only met Tsarnaev after moving to the United States. Todashev was shot shortly after midnight at an apartment complex about 10 miles from Walt Disney World, after FBI agents and other law enforcmenet reportedly returned for a final interview.

The FBI originally said only that an agent "encountered the suspect while conducting official duties. The suspect is deceased," but did not offer any other details. They have since released a further statement that says that suspect became "violent" during questioning, the agent shot him in self defense.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

In a First, U.S. Admits Drones Have Killed 4 Americans

That should serve as a warning to any other Americans who plan to take up arms against their fellow citizens.