CDZ Impeachment Precedent

[Auld Phart]

I am really concerned about the precedent this impeachment is setting.

It is along strict party lines. Very weak charges. No high crimes or misdemeanors.

To me it is not a legitimate impeachment but a Democrat Dirty Tricks Operation.

Is this going to be the precedent every time one party is in control of the House and another Party holds the Presidency?

Democrats should be just as concerned as Republicans because it could happen to them next. For instance, the Republican Congress could have impeached Obama over him abusing his power by using the IRS to disenfranchise his political rivals.

Is this really the way we want to run this country?

Precedent? You clearly never read about Andrew Johnson. Every Democrat voted against it- it was along strict party lines.
Impeachment of Andrew Johnson - Wikipedia

I realize that you are parroting Trump's talking points, but that doesn't make them true.

The charges are not 'weak' but very specific and on point- and triggered by Trump's secret call to a foreign government to investigate his political rival.

Under any other President, other than Trump, Republicans would be outraged that an American President abused his office for his own political benefit- but not when its Trump.

Let me put it another way- you have presented a strictly partisan view of the proceedings.

My strictly partisan view of the proceedings are that they were and are warranted. And that the Constitution doesn't call upon the House to not act, simply because the members of the President's party refuse to hold him accountable.

triggered by Trump's secret call to a foreign government to investigate his political rival.

Secret?

Sounds like everyone above the rank of janitor in DC knew about it before the whistleblower did.

 

[Syriusly]

I am really concerned about the precedent this impeachment is setting. It is along strict party lines. Very weak charges. No high crimes or misdemeanors. To me it is not a legitimate impeachment but a Democrat Dirty Tricks Operation. Is this going to be the precedent every time one party is in control of the House and another Party holds the Presidency? Democrats should be just as concerned as Republicans because it could happen to them next. For instance, the Republican Congress could have impeached Obama over him abusing his power by using the IRS to disenfranchise his political rivals. Is this really the way we want to run this country?

I'm much more concerned about presidential abuse of power, but lying about a blowjob is apparently much more serious to some. Why isn't the whole Whitewater fiasco seen in the same light? I think the Republicans are being very two-faced about this and THAT'S not "the way we want to run this country".

All parties are two face when it suits their agenda. The difference between the Slick Willy impeachment and the Trump impeachment is that the Willy impeachment had support of members of both parties. Unlike this Trump impeachment, which is along strict party lines. Not only will no Republicans vote for it in the House but we are liable to get significant Democrat votes against it.

The Democrats themselves have said that an impeachment along party lines is not the right to go.

I would really rather have the discussion be over the legitimacy of an impeachment along party lines rather than partisan defense.

Party pretty much equals partisan.

Lets look at the Clinton impeachment

Clinton was impeached by the House of Representatives on December 19, 1998 on grounds of perjury to a grand jury (by a 228–206 vote;

 

[Syriusly]

I am really concerned about the precedent this impeachment is setting.

It is along strict party lines. Very weak charges. No high crimes or misdemeanors.

To me it is not a legitimate impeachment but a Democrat Dirty Tricks Operation.

Is this going to be the precedent every time one party is in control of the House and another Party holds the Presidency?

Democrats should be just as concerned as Republicans because it could happen to them next. For instance, the Republican Congress could have impeached Obama over him abusing his power by using the IRS to disenfranchise his political rivals.

Is this really the way we want to run this country?

Precedent? You clearly never read about Andrew Johnson. Every Democrat voted against it- it was along strict party lines.
Impeachment of Andrew Johnson - Wikipedia

I realize that you are parroting Trump's talking points, but that doesn't make them true.

The charges are not 'weak' but very specific and on point- and triggered by Trump's secret call to a foreign government to investigate his political rival.

Under any other President, other than Trump, Republicans would be outraged that an American President abused his office for his own political benefit- but not when its Trump.

Let me put it another way- you have presented a strictly partisan view of the proceedings.

My strictly partisan view of the proceedings are that they were and are warranted. And that the Constitution doesn't call upon the House to not act, simply because the members of the President's party refuse to hold him accountable.

triggered by Trump's secret call to a foreign government to investigate his political rival.

Secret?

Sounds like everyone above the rank of janitor in DC knew about it before the whistleblower did.

Secret as in Trump labeled the call itself 'secret'
Secret as in Trump limited the number of participants, and excluded those who normally would be included- such as the Ambassador to Ukraine.
Secret as in Trump limited the number of people who go access to the records of the call- such as not providing to the Ambassador to the Ukraine.
Secret as in stowing away in an ultra-secure storage facility intended for the most sensitive of American secrets.

And secret as in Trump didn't want Americans to know that he was asking Ukraine to dig up dirt on his political rival.

 

[Syriusly]

The Dim's have nothing left, their only hope rests with fabricating and investigating baseless illusions of malfeasance coupled with outlandish false statements and lies. The exposure of embedded deeply seated political operatives abuse of power within the inner workings of government should concern all Americans for their freedom and Constitutional rights rest in the balance.

50% of Americans think Trump should be impeached.

So much for Democrats not having anhything left.

 

[Syriusly]

Trump will forever be seen as an incompetent illegitimate president, and now he will be known as one of the few who were impeached. What a loser.

This thread was not created in the CDZ for partisans assholes to make stupid comments.

There are plenty of other threads for you Moon Bats to attack a President that is making this country great again.

This thread was created to cleanly discuss the legitimacy of having a strict party line impeachment. Do you want that to be the precedent because the Moon Bat Party has certainly set that bar. Is that what you want? Because if you do the Republicans will be glad to accommodate you the next time they have the House and we have a Moon Bat President.

I am still waiting to find out what President is making America great 'again'- because I think America has always been great. So sad to me that Republicans felt America was no longer great.

A strictly party line impeachment is completely legitimate. Johnson was impeached with every Democrat voting no. Clinton was impeached on pretty much party lines, with a few party members crossing over.

Why should impeachment wait if a President has violated his oath- simply because his own party is too scared to hold him accountable?

And didn't your Dear Leader come into Washington to break down political traditions?

 

[Flash]

Trump will forever be seen as an incompetent illegitimate president, and now he will be known as one of the few who were impeached. What a loser.

This thread was not created in the CDZ for partisans assholes to make stupid comments.

There are plenty of other threads for you Moon Bats to attack a President that is making this country great again.

This thread was created to cleanly discuss the legitimacy of having a strict party line impeachment. Do you want that to be the precedent because the Moon Bat Party has certainly set that bar. Is that what you want? Because if you do the Republicans will be glad to accommodate you the next time they have the House and we have a Moon Bat President.

I am still waiting to find out what President is making America great 'again'- because I think America has always been great. So sad to me that Republicans felt America was no longer great.

A strictly party line impeachment is completely legitimate. Johnson was impeached with every Democrat voting no. Clinton was impeached on pretty much party lines, with a few party members crossing over.

Why should impeachment wait if a President has violated his oath- simply because his own party is too scared to hold him accountable?

And didn't your Dear Leader come into Washington to break down political traditions?

It was the right thing for Trump to want to get this investigated.


State Department documents expose Biden-Ukraine corruption | One America News Network

State Department documents expose Biden-Ukraine corruption

Newly released documents are revealing additional details of the alleged corruption scheme by Joe and Hunter Biden in Ukraine. A recent Freedom of Information request by watchdog group American Oversight has produced 100 pages of State Department documents, including testimonies from former prosecutors Viktor Shokin and Yuriy Lutsenko.

This comes amid elevated concerns that top Obama-era officials could be harboring ill-gotten gains of Ukrainian oligarchs in exchange for help in the 2016 election.

“When the President’s talking to the president of Ukraine, that’s the issue he’s worried about: why did this corruption take place, and if they’re investigating what went on,” stated Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton. “He had every right to ask about Biden.”

Reports confirmed Vice President Biden used his office to protect energy company Burisma from anti-corruption scrutiny. Documents showed the State Department was aware that Burisma owner Mykola Zlochevsky was involved in money laundering and the illegal off-shoring of at least $23 million from Ukraine.

Ukrainian officials said Hunter Biden, who served on Burisma’s board at the time, received a salary of $50,000 per month, plus a commission. The documents confirmed that in 2015, Zlochevsky paid $900,000 in consulting fees to Rosemont Seneca Partners, a company that represented the Bidens’ interests in Ukraine.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

If Trump hadnt done it then there would not have been a process.

Im a long way from this but Trump used public funds for a personal purpose. When he was found out he started the cover-up and withheld evidence and ordered his lackeys to not give evidence.

Since then he has continued to undermine the process by intimidating witnesses.

He is out of control and dragging the country down to his level. I know that he will beat the rap because he has enough dependent votes who will block justice.

But in the longer term this is the death of the GOP and I would suggest the death of this version of your constitution.

Have I missed anything?

 

[gipper]

I am really concerned about the precedent this impeachment is setting.

It is along strict party lines. Very weak charges. No high crimes or misdemeanors.

To me it is not a legitimate impeachment but a Democrat Dirty Tricks Operation.

Is this going to be the precedent every time one party is in control of the House and another Party holds the Presidency?

Democrats should be just as concerned as Republicans because it could happen to them next. For instance, the Republican Congress could have impeached Obama over him abusing his power by using the IRS to disenfranchise his political rivals.

Is this really the way we want to run this country?

The impeachment is bull shit. Total propaganda.

What we should all be concerned about is our government using a clearly phony dossier to spy on a presidential campaign. They lied repeatedly to the FISA court to do their spying.

The KGB in the bad old days of the USSR, would greatly admire our FBI.

 

[Syriusly]

[Q


And secret as in Trump didn't want Americans to know that he was asking Ukraine to dig up dirt on his political rival.

You are confused Moon Bat.

His political rival, that asshole Joe Biden, was knee deep in foreign corruption along with his son. The dumbass sonofabitch even went on record using his government position to stop the investigation of his son. You can't get any more corrupt than that.

The Ukraine needed to stop the corruption and doing this investigation was a good measure of if they were serious. That was the right thing for Trump to do. All Americans should want the truth about the corruption of the Bidens.

Of course you asshole Democrats are not real Americans and you never want to hold shitheads like Bill Clinton, Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden or John Kerry accountable for their corruption, do you?

You seem to have forgotten this is the CDZ

 

[Syriusly]

Trump will forever be seen as an incompetent illegitimate president, and now he will be known as one of the few who were impeached. What a loser.

This thread was not created in the CDZ for partisans assholes to make stupid comments.

There are plenty of other threads for you Moon Bats to attack a President that is making this country great again.

This thread was created to cleanly discuss the legitimacy of having a strict party line impeachment. Do you want that to be the precedent because the Moon Bat Party has certainly set that bar. Is that what you want? Because if you do the Republicans will be glad to accommodate you the next time they have the House and we have a Moon Bat President.

I am still waiting to find out what President is making America great 'again'- because I think America has always been great. So sad to me that Republicans felt America was no longer great.

A strictly party line impeachment is completely legitimate. Johnson was impeached with every Democrat voting no. Clinton was impeached on pretty much party lines, with a few party members crossing over.

Why should impeachment wait if a President has violated his oath- simply because his own party is too scared to hold him accountable?

And didn't your Dear Leader come into Washington to break down political traditions?

It was the right thing for Trump to want to get this investigated.


State Department documents expose Biden-Ukraine corruption | One America News Network

State Department documents expose Biden-Ukraine corruption

Newly released documents are revealing additional details of the alleged corruption scheme by Joe and Hunter Biden in Ukraine. A recent Freedom of Information request by watchdog group American Oversight has produced 100 pages of State Department documents, including testimonies from former prosecutors Viktor Shokin and Yuriy Lutsenko.

This comes amid elevated concerns that top Obama-era officials could be harboring ill-gotten gains of Ukrainian oligarchs in exchange for help in the 2016 election.

“When the President’s talking to the president of Ukraine, that’s the issue he’s worried about: why did this corruption take place, and if they’re investigating what went on,” stated Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton. “He had every right to ask about Biden.”

Reports confirmed Vice President Biden used his office to protect energy company Burisma from anti-corruption scrutiny. Documents showed the State Department was aware that Burisma owner Mykola Zlochevsky was involved in money laundering and the illegal off-shoring of at least $23 million from Ukraine.

Ukrainian officials said Hunter Biden, who served on Burisma’s board at the time, received a salary of $50,000 per month, plus a commission. The documents confirmed that in 2015, Zlochevsky paid $900,000 in consulting fees to Rosemont Seneca Partners, a company that represented the Bidens’ interests in Ukraine.

Ah Trump's own pocket propaganda network- OAN. Remember- its all fake news unless it comes for OAN!

I don't think that the CDZ is where we should be re-litigating the President's propaganda machine.

 

[Flash]

Since I am the OP and started this thread lets get it back on topic.

There are other threads to discuss the impeachment but I wanted to have a real discussion on the precedent that the Democrats are setting with this partisan impeachment.

Do you really want to have it so that there is an impeachment whenever one party holds the House and the other party holds the White House? Trying to undo an election? If so can we make it retroactive back to 2010?

Is that really what you want?

Even Pelosi said that an impeachment vote along strict party line is wrong but that is exactly where this is going. It is going that way because the majority party has not proved "high crimes and misdemeanors" unlike other impeachments that had bipartisan support.

We are looking at all Republicans voting no along with probably a dozen Democrats and one of them even changing parties over this fiasco. That is a partisan as it gets.

I want to discuss precedent, not rehash what has been discussed on 20 other threads.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I am really concerned about the precedent this impeachment is setting.

It is along strict party lines. Very weak charges. No high crimes or misdemeanors.

To me it is not a legitimate impeachment but a Democrat Dirty Tricks Operation.

Is this going to be the precedent every time one party is in control of the House and another Party holds the Presidency?

Democrats should be just as concerned as Republicans because it could happen to them next. For instance, the Republican Congress could have impeached Obama over him abusing his power by using the IRS to disenfranchise his political rivals.

Is this really the way we want to run this country?

Precedent? You clearly never read about Andrew Johnson. Every Democrat voted against it- it was along strict party lines.
Impeachment of Andrew Johnson - Wikipedia

I realize that you are parroting Trump's talking points, but that doesn't make them true.

The charges are not 'weak' but very specific and on point- and triggered by Trump's secret call to a foreign government to investigate his political rival.

Under any other President, other than Trump, Republicans would be outraged that an American President abused his office for his own political benefit- but not when its Trump.

Let me put it another way- you have presented a strictly partisan view of the proceedings.

My strictly partisan view of the proceedings are that they were and are warranted. And that the Constitution doesn't call upon the House to not act, simply because the members of the President's party refuse to hold him accountable.

triggered by Trump's secret call to a foreign government to investigate his political rival.

Secret?

Sounds like everyone above the rank of janitor in DC knew about it before the whistleblower did.

Secret as in Trump labeled the call itself 'secret'
Secret as in Trump limited the number of participants, and excluded those who normally would be included- such as the Ambassador to Ukraine.
Secret as in Trump limited the number of people who go access to the records of the call- such as not providing to the Ambassador to the Ukraine.
Secret as in stowing away in an ultra-secure storage facility intended for the most sensitive of American secrets.

And secret as in Trump didn't want Americans to know that he was asking Ukraine to dig up dirt on his political rival.

And secret as in Trump didn't want Americans to know that he was asking Ukraine to dig up dirt on his political rival.

That was outrageous!!!
Biden's corruption must never be exposed.
All Dem corruption must remain hidden, especially if the Dem is a candidate for President....or any other office.

 

[Flash]

I am really concerned about the precedent this impeachment is setting.

It is along strict party lines. Very weak charges. No high crimes or misdemeanors.

To me it is not a legitimate impeachment but a Democrat Dirty Tricks Operation.

Is this going to be the precedent every time one party is in control of the House and another Party holds the Presidency?

Democrats should be just as concerned as Republicans because it could happen to them next. For instance, the Republican Congress could have impeached Obama over him abusing his power by using the IRS to disenfranchise his political rivals.

Is this really the way we want to run this country?

Precedent? You clearly never read about Andrew Johnson. Every Democrat voted against it- it was along strict party lines.
Impeachment of Andrew Johnson - Wikipedia

I realize that you are parroting Trump's talking points, but that doesn't make them true.

The charges are not 'weak' but very specific and on point- and triggered by Trump's secret call to a foreign government to investigate his political rival.

Under any other President, other than Trump, Republicans would be outraged that an American President abused his office for his own political benefit- but not when its Trump.

Let me put it another way- you have presented a strictly partisan view of the proceedings.

My strictly partisan view of the proceedings are that they were and are warranted. And that the Constitution doesn't call upon the House to not act, simply because the members of the President's party refuse to hold him accountable.

triggered by Trump's secret call to a foreign government to investigate his political rival.

Secret?

Sounds like everyone above the rank of janitor in DC knew about it before the whistleblower did.

Secret as in Trump labeled the call itself 'secret'
Secret as in Trump limited the number of participants, and excluded those who normally would be included- such as the Ambassador to Ukraine.
Secret as in Trump limited the number of people who go access to the records of the call- such as not providing to the Ambassador to the Ukraine.
Secret as in stowing away in an ultra-secure storage facility intended for the most sensitive of American secrets.

And secret as in Trump didn't want Americans to know that he was asking Ukraine to dig up dirt on his political rival.

And secret as in Trump didn't want Americans to know that he was asking Ukraine to dig up dirt on his political rival.

That was outrageous!!!
Biden's corruption must never be exposed.
All Dem corruption must remain hidden, especially if the Dem is a candidate for President....or any other office.

The thing that is outrageous is that you don't know what this thread is about. Even when I keep telling everybody.

 

[Flash]

I will make this real simple.

Republican House is controlled by Republicans. A Democrat is in the White House that the Republicans don't like.

The Republicans dream up impeachment charges against the Democrat President. Very little substance to the charges. They even charge him with Obstruction of Congress because he won't go along with their partisan scam. The charges are so weak that no Democrats join the Republicans. Only Republicans vote for the Impeachment.

Is that what you want?

Because that is exactly what is happening now except the parties are reversed.

The question: Is this the precedent you want for this country?

 

[task0778]

When the Repubs impeached Clinton 20 years ago it was viewed by some as political hackery, IOW what he did wasn't seen by many as worthy of impeachment. The GOP lost some seats in the house and some say it was at least partly due to the lack of public support for what they did. IMHO, the same thing is going to happen this time too, the Dems are going to lose seats in the House and maybe their majority. If it turns out that way, it could be that future impeachments cold be carefully scrutinized to make sure the charges against the President warrant impeachment. Otherwise the desired result of making their party look bad and yours looking good may not play out that way. We are already seeing the latest polls turning against impeachment and some Dems are running scared.

 

[sartre play]

Seems its our problem, we hold our leaders to such low standards. If we stopped believing all the propaganda & held our own favorite party to higher standards we would have better leadership.

 

[Syriusly]

Trump will forever be seen as an incompetent illegitimate president, and now he will be known as one of the few who were impeached. What a loser.

This thread was not created in the CDZ for partisans assholes to make stupid comments.

There are plenty of other threads for you Moon Bats to attack a President that is making this country great again.

This thread was created to cleanly discuss the legitimacy of having a strict party line impeachment. Do you want that to be the precedent because the Moon Bat Party has certainly set that bar. Is that what you want? Because if you do the Republicans will be glad to accommodate you the next time they have the House and we have a Moon Bat President.

I am still waiting to find out what President is making America great 'again'- because I think America has always been great. So sad to me that Republicans felt America was no longer great.

A strictly party line impeachment is completely legitimate. Johnson was impeached with every Democrat voting no. Clinton was impeached on pretty much party lines, with a few party members crossing over.

Why should impeachment wait if a President has violated his oath- simply because his own party is too scared to hold him accountable?

And didn't your Dear Leader come into Washington to break down political traditions?

It was the right thing for Trump to want to get this investigated.

Odd isn't it that the only thing that Trump wants investigated is his political rival and his son?
Paul Manafort was convicted in the U.S. of actions that took place in Ukraine- Trump never asked Ukraine to investigate Manafort.

The only people that Trump has asked for other countries to investigate- just happen to be his political rival- and his son. And of course Trump didn't just ask for an investigation- he demanded that the President of the Ukraine himself make a public announcement that there was an investigation into the Biden's. How was that the 'right thing'?

If there is real evidence of any wrong doing by Hunter Biden- or by Donald Trump Jr.- in the United States or in another country- then of course they should be investigated- as Trump's campaign- by the FBI.

Not by a secret phone call to a foreign government.

 

[Syriusly]

When the Repubs impeached Clinton 20 years ago it was viewed by some as political hackery, IOW what he did wasn't seen by many as worthy of impeachment. The GOP lost some seats in the house and some say it was at least partly due to the lack of public support for what they did. IMHO, the same thing is going to happen this time too, the Dems are going to lose seats in the House and maybe their majority. If it turns out that way, it could be that future impeachments cold be carefully scrutinized to make sure the charges against the President warrant impeachment. Otherwise the desired result of making their party look bad and yours looking good may not play out that way. We are already seeing the latest polls turning against impeachment and some Dems are running scared.

When Clinton was impeached 20 years ago, I certainly looked at it through partisan lens.

After all, Republicans had been pursuing Clinton from long before he became President. The Whitewater investigation was clearly partisan.

But now on reflection-looking at the impeachment now- I think Clinton should have resigned after he was impeached. But at least Clinton pretended to recognize the error of his ways and apologized for his abuse of his office.

Will this impeachment hurt Democrats? Maybe. But what Trump has done to the Republican Party will have much deeper ramifications. Trump has turned the GOP into a party of cult, willing to do or say anything to protect Trump. Look at creatures like Lindsey Graham- who now is a devoted toady to Trump- after Trump repeatedly trashed Graham's best friend John McCain. Look at Cruz- who now backs Trump, even after Trump slandered Cruz's own father and wife. The GOP under Trump no longer has any balls.

 

[Syriusly]

Since I am the OP and started this thread lets get it back on topic.

There are other threads to discuss the impeachment but I wanted to have a real discussion on the precedent that the Democrats are setting with this partisan impeachment.

Do you really want to have it so that there is an impeachment whenever one party holds the House and the other party holds the White House? Trying to undo an election? If so can we make it retroactive back to 2010?

Is that really what you want?

Even Pelosi said that an impeachment vote along strict party line is wrong but that is exactly where this is going. It is going that way because the majority party has not proved "high crimes and misdemeanors" unlike other impeachments that had bipartisan support.

We are looking at all Republicans voting no along with probably a dozen Democrats and one of them even changing parties over this fiasco. That is a partisan as it gets.

I want to discuss precedent, not rehash what has been discussed on 20 other threads.

Then why haven't you actually discussed precedent.

There are exactly 3 previous examples of impeachment actions against a President.

Johnson was impeached with every Democrat voting against impeachment.

When Nixon was in the process of being impeached- The Judiciary Committee voted on October 30, to begin consideration of possible impeachment of President Nixon by a 21–17 party-line vote, with all the committee's Democrats voting yes and all Republicans voting no

This is exactly the state at which we are with the Trump impeachment right now. And the votes mirror the Nixon impeachment Judiciary impeachment vote- entirely partisan.

Clinton
On December 11, 1998, the House Judiciary Committee voted on whether to present the three articles of impeachment to the full House of Representatives. On the first and second articles of impeachment, grand jury perjury and obstruction of justice, the Committee voted 21-to-17 to impeach, strictly on party lines; on the third article of impeachment, perjury, the Committee voted 20-to-18 to impeach, with Republican Lindsey Graham joining Democratic Committee Members in order to give President Clinton "the legal benefit of the doubt."[23] The next day, December 12, the House Judiciary Committee voted on the fourth and final article of impeachment, for making false statements, again strictly along party lines.[24]

So based upon 'precedent' what is happening now is exactly what has happened in every preceding impeachment.

 

[task0778]

Seems its our problem, we hold our leaders to such low standards. If we stopped believing all the propaganda & held our own favorite party to higher standards we would have better leadership.

With respect, how about we hold EVERYBODY in politics to the highest standards regardless of party, elected or not. Especially those holding the highest and most influential offices. I fear that ain't going to happen though, those in power will not go against their own party no matter what they do. I do believe we need more teeth in our laws and regs; bad conduct gets you booted out of the military, and it should be the same way in every other gov't agency IMHO. Doesn't have to be illegal, just wrong.

I wish I knew how to achieve better leadership. I think it has to start at the ballot box, but in too many places the same rat bastards are re-elected no matter what they do. And we appoint federal judges to lifetime terms who are anything but impartial and unbiased; maybe we need term limits for both branches of gov't, legislative and judicial. Or at least the judicial branch, we can at least vote out the legislators.

In 2016, thee GOP lost their House majority because they didn't do enough to satisfy the voters that they earned another term in office. It is my hope that the Dems learn the same lesson in 2020, but I guess we'll see what happens.