Immigration “due process” considered

[jc456]

And again, the question remains “to what ‘process’ are illegal immigrants ‘due’? “

You’ve maintained at least two or three times some horseshit about removal with no being confronted with evidence against them. There may be some exceptions; but, as a general rule, they do get hearings in which the evidence against them is presented.

Sorry you have such problems with reality.

they see a judge and prove their status and that's it. nothing more. If they did not request asylum it's over, if they did do that, then they are vetted.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Same process as any other person accused of a crime.

A right to know the charges against them
A right to see the evidence
A right to an attorney
A right to respond to those charges in court

1) Illegal entry, proven by the presence of the illegal alien in the USA.
2) See #1 above
3) in an administrative action lawyers aren't required.
4) Yes, the illegal alien can claim that he is NOT an illegal alien and provide proof like a green card (which holders are required to carry and provide on demand) or some other valid proof of citizenship.

 

[AZrailwhale]

So?
They are entitled to the same due process as anyone else accused of a crime

A first deportation is an administrative action not a criminal one. A second or more deportation is a felony and a criminal matter and jail before deportation is likely, so an attorney and court proceeding is required.

 

[BackAgain]

nope, all you need to do is support it. Because I always bring receipts

Due Process and Aliens: What They Are and Are Not Entitled to in Immigration Proceedings

Some critics of the Trump Administration’s enforcement of federal immigration law, including members of the public, the media, and Congress, have made misleading claims about the due process rights that apply in immigration proceedings. Those who claim that non-citizens, referred to in our...

www.heritage.org

Immigration cases are civil rather than criminal proceedings, and aliens have limited due process rights as defined by Congress and Supreme Court precedents. Those rights differ depending on whether aliens are trying to enter this country or are already here, legally or illegally, as well as their visa or other status.

You’re being obtuse.

Yes, immigration cases are administrative matters and not criminal proceedings. As such, the illegal aliens cases: (a) are not brought in Article III courts, and such aliens (b) aren’t entitled to the same rules of evidence as in criminal or civil courts, (c) don’t get the benefit of the same burden of proof (it’s significantly lower for the government), (d) aren’t entitled to have lawyers appointed for them and so forth.

The process to which they are due is clearly different than all people have the right to in a criminal court.

Content follow along.

 

[BackAgain]

A first deportation is an administrative action not a criminal one. A second or more deportation is a felony and a criminal matter and jail before deportation is likely, so an attorney and court proceeding is required.

Actually, a once deported alien can be tried in a criminal court for a charged criminal offense such as re-entry. In the criminal case, they get the same due process rights all people get in a court of law in any such proceeding. But that case doesn’t get adjudicated in an immigration court.

 

[AZrailwhale]

What is known as Due Process. You may argue what is “Due” but you cannot deny the process

Snatching someone off the street and shipping to a Hell Hole Prison without a chance to see the evidence against you is not Due Process

Oh yea…..Trump did not like his tattoos

Due process doesn't involve the courts. It's whatever the law defines as due process. Getting a building permit and inspection from your city or county are due process, but judges and lawyers are not part of the process. Getting tested for a driver's license is due process.

 

[BackAgain]

they see a judge and prove their status and that's it. nothing more. If they did not request asylum it's over, if they did do that, then they are vetted.

You are discussing a brand new issue, now.

An immigration proceeding can adjudicate an asylum request. Or an immigration proceeding can adjudicate a removal proceeding NOTICE TO APPEAR matter

Either immigration court matter is heard before an administrative “judge” in immigration court and NOT by a judicial branch article III judge.

 

[jc456]

You’re being obtuse.

Yes, immigration cases are administrative matters and not criminal proceedings. As such, the illegal aliens cases: (a) are not brought in Article III courts, and such aliens (b) aren’t entitled to the same rules of evidence as in criminal or civil courts, (c) don’t get the benefit of the same burden of proof (it’s significantly lower for the government), (d) aren’t entitled to have lawyers appointed for them and so forth.

The process to which they are due is clearly different than all people have the right to in a criminal court.

Content follow along.

That’s not what you said dude

 

[toobfreak]

So, the question here is: “to what process is any person due when he is not even legally here in the first place?”

It took no due process for them to illegally enter.

Therefore, the only due process needed upon deportation is:

1. To certify the individual is not any known actual legal citizen.
2. That they are therefore here illegally in violation of immigration law.
3. Some identity or designation so we will know if they ever try to return again (illegally or otherwise).

All illegals ought to get an implanted RFID chip embedded in their dermis so we can identify their return.

 

[BluesLegend]

I would say that some due process is still better than no due process at all. Florida's solution might not be as good as it could be, but might be the best we can do under the present circumstances. I for one do not like the idea of providing the same constitutional rights to illegals that an American citizen has.

Wait for your due process, in a cage, in a swamp or choose to go home. Brilliant!

 

[rightwinger]

Due process doesn't involve the courts. It's whatever the law defines as due process. Getting a building permit and inspection from your city or county are due process, but judges and lawyers are not part of the process. Getting tested for a driver's license is due process.

OK

Let immigrants contest their case

 

[BackAgain]

That’s not what you said dude

Yes it is. Your reading comprehension sucks, dude.

 

[AZrailwhale]

OK

Let immigrants contest their case

They can in front of an immigration official. That is their due process. They have to prove that they are 1) here legally and 2) that they shouldn't be deported. For a citizen or greed card holder both are simple, for an illegal alien impossible. That's why most don't show up for their hearings.

 

[BackAgain]

It took no due process for them to illegally enter.

Therefore, the only due process needed upon deportation is:

1. To certify the individual is not any known actual legal citizen.
2. That they are therefore here illegally in violation of immigration law.
3. Some identity or designation so we will know if they ever try to return again (illegally or otherwise).

All illegals ought to get an implanted RFID chip embedded in their dermis so we can identify their return.

It takes no due process for a murderer to kill a victim. Therefore, no murderer would be entitled to due process under your logic. But we know that’s not true.

A finer distinction has to be made and acknowledged. That’s why I keep noting that the question is “what process is due?”

An illegal alien does get the same due process rights as a citizen when charged with a crime.

But that same illegal alien does not get that same degree or measure of due process in an immigration proceeding in Immigration Court.

As a legal and Constitutional matter, there is no good reason why an illegal alien should be entitled to that same quanta of “due process” in a removal proceeding.

 

[toobfreak]

It takes no due process for a murderer to kill a victim. Therefore, no murderer would be entitled to due process under your logic. But we know that’s not true.

Wrong. A murder committed by any citizen gets extensive due process of law.

An illegal alien does get the same due process rights as a citizen when charged with a crime.

Wrong. Just being here illegally is a crime. But if we were to treat each illegal as a criminal case to be adjudicated, we'd never get them processed much less afford it all.

As a legal and Constitutional matter, there is no good reason why an illegal alien should be entitled to that same quanta of “due process” in a removal proceeding.

Right.

 

[ColonelAngus]

I am trying to figure out how illegal border crossings are down 95% since Trump took office.

DEMS TOLD US IT WAS IMPOSSIBLE TO REDUCE CROSSINGS AND THE BORDER WAS SECURE!

SO…………..how are illegal crossings down 95%?

Tell us all specifically, using great detail to explain how Dems were so wrong.

 

[BackAgain]

Wrong. A murder committed by any citizen gets extensive due process of law.

No. I’m right. Of course a citizen gets due process in a criminal trial. But so does even an illegal alien. And since that’s what I said and continue to say, it’s strange for you to start of with the word “wrong.”

Wrong. Just being here illegally is a crime. But if we were to treat each illegal as a criminal case to be adjudicated, we'd never get them processed much less afford it all.

Again, you’re misguided. I happen to agree that the law says entering here without complying with our immigration law and rules is a crime. But they don’t get prosecuted for that crime in any immigration court. Immigration matters are not criminal proceedings. The fact is that we DON’T treat a removal proceeding as a criminal case. Of course we couldn’t do that and I’d never argue for it.

Right.

I know. That’s why I said it!

 

[jc456]

Yes it is. Your reading comprehension sucks, dude.

You said illegals, who are all criminals, get the same due process as citizen criminals. Perhaps you should reread your post, and, no need to act like a demofk

 

[BackAgain]

You said illegals, who are all criminals, get the same due process as citizen criminals. Perhaps you should reread your post, and, no need to act like a demofk

No. I referenced illegal aliens.

 

[jc456]

No. I referenced illegal aliens.

Yep, and said they get the same process as citizen criminals . No, they don’t