Illegal Employer Problem

sealybobo

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Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration. But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home. Who's hiring them? Small business owners? Aren't they typically Republicans?

Here are three great articles on the subject:

ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)

ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon


ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
 

Walt

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Sealybobo, I agree that the repubs, do not help the situation at all with their hiring of illegals. However I also see that the majority, if not all, mayors of sanctuary cities are dems { I cannot think of a mayor who is a repub doing this}. Also dems also own business and hire illegals. So what we get is a bunch of bloviating rhetoric from both sides while the problem continues. All I can think of when it comes to our politicans "talking" about solving problems is Mel Brooks in Blazing Saddles pounding his desk saying "we have to protect our phoney baloney jobs gentelmen". Alot of talk, while things continue to deteroriate and nothing really worth while gets accomplished. IMHO.
 

007

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Liberals are to blame for the illegals 'more' than conservatives. Liberals want to give them drivers licenses, liberals want them to be able to vote, liberals don't want a fence, liberals convict good border guards like Ramos and Compean, liberals create sanctuary cities NYC and San Franqueerco, liberals want to call them undocumented immigrants instead of what they are, ILLEGAL ALIENS... shall I go on?

Sure there's a repub or two that are sell outs, like bush and mcamnesty, but not many otherwise. You liberals have always been illegal alien coddlers and excuse makers. Just ask one like Sky Dancer.

I agree 100% with one point you've made, and that's that if no one would hire them, they'd have no reason to come here, but liberals have also fought against E-verify, which conservatives support.

So sorry, but you argue a losing battle when you try and blame conservatives for the illegal alien problem and not the liberals.
 
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Wolfmoon

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What about making the American employers obey the local, state and federal laws already on the books. Americans should report any employer hiring illegal aliens. If the employers can't make a living without lying, cheating and breaking the laws. Maybe, the employer shouldn't be in business in the first place and the employer should go get a job!



Excerpt:

Sec. 274A. [8 U.S.C. 1324a]

(a) Making Employment of Unauthorized Aliens Unlawful.-
(1) In general.-It is unlawful for a person or other entity-
(A) to hire, or to recruit or refer for a fee, for employment in the United States an alien
knowing the alien is an unauthorized alien (as defined in subsection (h)(3)) with respect to such
employment, or

.ExternalClass DIV{;}
[PDF] http://www.uscis.gov/propub/DocView/slbid/1/2/111?hilite=


124k - Adobe PDF - View as html
... Employment of Unauthorized Aliens ... is unlawful for a person or other entity, after hiring an alien for ... 274A - UNLAWFUL

 
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Harry Dresden

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What about making the American employers obey the local, state and federal laws already on the books. Americans should report any employer hiring illegal aliens. If the employers can't make a living without lying, cheating and breaking the laws. Maybe, the employer shouldn't be in business in the first place and the employer should go get a job!


the thing is.....WHO is going to make them obey those laws?......the Feds? the State?....as you can see they are both doing bang up jobs....and as for Americans reporting them.....good luck,the Ball Game,American Idol and So You Think You Can Dance take precedence over this kind of stuff.....just sayin....
 
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sealybobo

sealybobo

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Republicans like to blame bleeding heart liberals for illegal immigration. But the fact is, if people weren't hiring them, they'd go home. Who's hiring them? Small business owners? Aren't they typically Republicans?

Here are three great articles on the subject:

ThomHartmann.com - Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)

ThomHartmann.com - Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon


ThomHartmann.com - Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
BrokeLoser eat my fucking ass. This was me in 2009 and these articles are Thom Hartmann 2006.

Show me that Republicans were on the right side of this issue even last year let along a decade ago. You dishonest fuck.
 
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sealybobo

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Sealybobo, I agree that the repubs, do not help the situation at all with their hiring of illegals. However I also see that the majority, if not all, mayors of sanctuary cities are dems { I cannot think of a mayor who is a repub doing this}. Also dems also own business and hire illegals. So what we get is a bunch of bloviating rhetoric from both sides while the problem continues. All I can think of when it comes to our politicans "talking" about solving problems is Mel Brooks in Blazing Saddles pounding his desk saying "we have to protect our phoney baloney jobs gentelmen". Alot of talk, while things continue to deteroriate and nothing really worth while gets accomplished. IMHO.
Here is a great example of how the Republicans have completely changed. Reagan and Bush and McCain and Romney and the GOP were very soft on illegals. Trump sounds nothing like them. This is one of the things I like about Trump.

The GOP's Evolution On Immigration

Reagan speaking about Mexico said "Rather than talking about putting up a fence," the future president said. "Why don't we work out some recognition of our mutual problems?"

On the stage debating him that day was another 1980 GOP presidential hopeful and future president, George H.W. Bush. He was asked by an audience member if children in the country illegally should be allowed to attend U.S. public schools.

Bush didn't hesitate, saying he doesn't want to see 6- or 8-year-olds being uneducated or "made to feel that they're living outside the law."

A couple of decades later, the presidency of George W. Bush brought another major push for immigration overhaul. Former Bush press secretary Ari Fleischer notes that the 43rd president's campaign slogan of "compassionate conservatism" applied to immigration.

Fleischer says that because Bush had been governor of Texas, he had a realistic view of who was coming across the border. "As a border governor, he had a personal understanding and a personal relationship with many of the immigrants who crossed the Rio Grande and came to Texas for work and liberty and for America's opportunity," Fleischer said.

Bush proposed changes to U.S. immigration law at an event at the White House in January 2004 that would make it easier for people to cross back and forth over the border to work legally in the United States. Bush described the problems he saw brought about by existing law. "Many undocumented workers walked mile after mile, through heat of day and cold of the night. Some have risked their lives in dangerous desert border crossings," Bush said. "Workers who seek only to earn a living end up in the shadows of American life."
 
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sealybobo

sealybobo

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Liberals are to blame for the illegals 'more' than conservatives. Liberals want to give them drivers licenses, liberals want them to be able to vote, liberals don't want a fence, liberals convict good border guards like Ramos and Compean, liberals create sanctuary cities NYC and San Franqueerco, liberals want to call them undocumented immigrants instead of what they are, ILLEGAL ALIENS... shall I go on?

Sure there's a repub or two that are sell outs, like bush and mcamnesty, but not many otherwise. You liberals have always been illegal alien coddlers and excuse makers. Just ask one like Sky Dancer.

I agree 100% with one point you've made, and that's that if no one would hire them, they'd have no reason to come here, but liberals have also fought against E-verify, which conservatives support.

So sorry, but you argue a losing battle when you try and blame conservatives for the illegal alien problem and not the liberals.
As I said before, it's an illegal employer problem!!! Was I right or what?

Don't build a wall. Go after the illegal employers and the problem will stop

The man accused of pursuing and killing 20-year-old Mollie Tibbetts had worked four years at an Iowa dairy farm based on false identification, his employer said Wednesday.

"What we learned in the last 24 hours is that our employee was not who he said he was," said Dane Lang, the co-owner and manager of Yarrabee Farms.

Bullshit!!!

Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"
 
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sealybobo

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Sealybobo, I agree that the repubs, do not help the situation at all with their hiring of illegals. However I also see that the majority, if not all, mayors of sanctuary cities are dems { I cannot think of a mayor who is a repub doing this}. Also dems also own business and hire illegals. So what we get is a bunch of bloviating rhetoric from both sides while the problem continues. All I can think of when it comes to our politicans "talking" about solving problems is Mel Brooks in Blazing Saddles pounding his desk saying "we have to protect our phoney baloney jobs gentelmen". Alot of talk, while things continue to deteroriate and nothing really worth while gets accomplished. IMHO.
Encouraging a rapid increase in the workforce by encouraging companies to hire non-citizens is one of the three most potent tools conservatives since Ronald Reagan have used to convert the American middle class into the American working poor. (The other two are destroying the governmental protections that keep labor unions viable, and ending tariffs while promoting trade deals like NAFTA/WTO/GATT that export manufacturing jobs.)
 
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sealybobo

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But Dobbs and his fellow Republicans say the solution is to "secure our border" with a fence like that used by East Germany, but that stretches a distance about the same as that from Washington, DC to Chicago. It'll be a multi-billion-dollar boon to Halliburton and Bechtel, who will undoubtedly get the construction and maintenance contracts, but it won't stop illegal immigration. (Instead, people will legally come in on tourist and other visas, and not leave when their visas expire.)
 
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sealybobo

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The fact is that we had an open border with Mexico for several centuries, and "illegal immigration" was never a serious problem. Before Reagan's presidency, an estimated million or so people a year came into the US from Mexico - and the same number, more or less, left the US for Mexico at the end of the agricultural harvest season. Very few stayed, because there weren't jobs for them.

Non-citizens didn't have access to the non-agricultural US job market, in large part because of the power of US labor unions (before Reagan 25% of the workforce was unionized; today the private workforce is about 7% unionized), and because companies were unwilling to risk having non-tax-deductible labor expenses on their books by hiring undocumented workers without valid Social Security numbers.

But Reagan put an end to that. His 1986 amnesty program, combined with his aggressive war on organized labor (begun in 1981), in effect told both employers and non-citizens that there would be few penalties and many rewards to increasing the US labor pool (and thus driving down wages) with undocumented immigrants. A million people a year continued to come across our southern border, but they stopped returning to Latin America every fall because instead of seasonal work they were able to find permanent jobs.

The magnet drawing them? Illegal Employers.

Yet in the American media, Illegal Employers are almost never mentioned.

Lou Dobbs, the most visible media champion of this issue, always starts his discussion of the issue with a basic syllogism - 1. Our border is porous. 2. People are coming across our porous border and diluting our labor markets, driving down US wages. 3. Therefore we must make the border less porous.

Lou's syllogism, however, ignores the real problem, the magnet drawing people to risk life and limb to illegally enter this country - Illegal Employers. Our borders have always been porous (and even with a "fence" will still allow through "tourists" by the millions), but we've never had a problem like this before.

Yet fifty years ago we didn't have an "illegal immigration" problem, because back then we didn't have a conservative "Illegal Employer" problem.
 

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Both parties are to blame and that’s why I voted for Trump.
 

Dan Stubbs

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Sealybobo, I agree that the repubs, do not help the situation at all with their hiring of illegals. However I also see that the majority, if not all, mayors of sanctuary cities are dems { I cannot think of a mayor who is a repub doing this}. Also dems also own business and hire illegals. So what we get is a bunch of bloviating rhetoric from both sides while the problem continues. All I can think of when it comes to our politicans "talking" about solving problems is Mel Brooks in Blazing Saddles pounding his desk saying "we have to protect our phoney baloney jobs gentelmen". Alot of talk, while things continue to deteroriate and nothing really worth while gets accomplished. IMHO.
The fact is that the whole problem is cheap labor. Bush as well as Obama, Soros, Buffet all want cheap labor < They are the reasons this problem has not been put under control Many people from Mexico came across the border worked and returned home until things got hard at the border. Green card workers worked for min pay. We do need to change and get control at the boarder for time have changed.
upload_2018-8-26_16-30-53.jpeg
 

bear513

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The fact is that we had an open border with Mexico for several centuries, and "illegal immigration" was never a serious problem. Before Reagan's presidency, an estimated million or so people a year came into the US from Mexico - and the same number, more or less, left the US for Mexico at the end of the agricultural harvest season. Very few stayed, because there weren't jobs for them.

Non-citizens didn't have access to the non-agricultural US job market, in large part because of the power of US labor unions (before Reagan 25% of the workforce was unionized; today the private workforce is about 7% unionized), and because companies were unwilling to risk having non-tax-deductible labor expenses on their books by hiring undocumented workers without valid Social Security numbers.

But Reagan put an end to that. His 1986 amnesty program, combined with his aggressive war on organized labor (begun in 1981), in effect told both employers and non-citizens that there would be few penalties and many rewards to increasing the US labor pool (and thus driving down wages) with undocumented immigrants. A million people a year continued to come across our southern border, but they stopped returning to Latin America every fall because instead of seasonal work they were able to find permanent jobs.

The magnet drawing them? Illegal Employers.

Yet in the American media, Illegal Employers are almost never mentioned.

Lou Dobbs, the most visible media champion of this issue, always starts his discussion of the issue with a basic syllogism - 1. Our border is porous. 2. People are coming across our porous border and diluting our labor markets, driving down US wages. 3. Therefore we must make the border less porous.

Lou's syllogism, however, ignores the real problem, the magnet drawing people to risk life and limb to illegally enter this country - Illegal Employers. Our borders have always been porous (and even with a "fence" will still allow through "tourists" by the millions), but we've never had a problem like this before.

Yet fifty years ago we didn't have an "illegal immigration" problem, because back then we didn't have a conservative "Illegal Employer" problem.


It was a good post till you said illegal employers were never mentioned in the press, if they were not mentioned how do we know about it????
 

saveliberty

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The fact is that we had an open border with Mexico for several centuries, and "illegal immigration" was never a serious problem. Before Reagan's presidency, an estimated million or so people a year came into the US from Mexico - and the same number, more or less, left the US for Mexico at the end of the agricultural harvest season. Very few stayed, because there weren't jobs for them.

Non-citizens didn't have access to the non-agricultural US job market, in large part because of the power of US labor unions (before Reagan 25% of the workforce was unionized; today the private workforce is about 7% unionized), and because companies were unwilling to risk having non-tax-deductible labor expenses on their books by hiring undocumented workers without valid Social Security numbers.

But Reagan put an end to that. His 1986 amnesty program, combined with his aggressive war on organized labor (begun in 1981), in effect told both employers and non-citizens that there would be few penalties and many rewards to increasing the US labor pool (and thus driving down wages) with undocumented immigrants. A million people a year continued to come across our southern border, but they stopped returning to Latin America every fall because instead of seasonal work they were able to find permanent jobs.

The magnet drawing them? Illegal Employers.

Yet in the American media, Illegal Employers are almost never mentioned.

Lou Dobbs, the most visible media champion of this issue, always starts his discussion of the issue with a basic syllogism - 1. Our border is porous. 2. People are coming across our porous border and diluting our labor markets, driving down US wages. 3. Therefore we must make the border less porous.

Lou's syllogism, however, ignores the real problem, the magnet drawing people to risk life and limb to illegally enter this country - Illegal Employers. Our borders have always been porous (and even with a "fence" will still allow through "tourists" by the millions), but we've never had a problem like this before.

Yet fifty years ago we didn't have an "illegal immigration" problem, because back then we didn't have a conservative "Illegal Employer" problem.
Interesting you pick that time frame and ignore the Mexican drug cartels and gangs. If employment was the only problem with illegals, you might have a case. As it is, fining illegal employers would help, but many are here in gangs and other illegal businesses, so it is not a cure all.
 
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sealybobo

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The fact is that we had an open border with Mexico for several centuries, and "illegal immigration" was never a serious problem. Before Reagan's presidency, an estimated million or so people a year came into the US from Mexico - and the same number, more or less, left the US for Mexico at the end of the agricultural harvest season. Very few stayed, because there weren't jobs for them.

Non-citizens didn't have access to the non-agricultural US job market, in large part because of the power of US labor unions (before Reagan 25% of the workforce was unionized; today the private workforce is about 7% unionized), and because companies were unwilling to risk having non-tax-deductible labor expenses on their books by hiring undocumented workers without valid Social Security numbers.

But Reagan put an end to that. His 1986 amnesty program, combined with his aggressive war on organized labor (begun in 1981), in effect told both employers and non-citizens that there would be few penalties and many rewards to increasing the US labor pool (and thus driving down wages) with undocumented immigrants. A million people a year continued to come across our southern border, but they stopped returning to Latin America every fall because instead of seasonal work they were able to find permanent jobs.

The magnet drawing them? Illegal Employers.

Yet in the American media, Illegal Employers are almost never mentioned.

Lou Dobbs, the most visible media champion of this issue, always starts his discussion of the issue with a basic syllogism - 1. Our border is porous. 2. People are coming across our porous border and diluting our labor markets, driving down US wages. 3. Therefore we must make the border less porous.

Lou's syllogism, however, ignores the real problem, the magnet drawing people to risk life and limb to illegally enter this country - Illegal Employers. Our borders have always been porous (and even with a "fence" will still allow through "tourists" by the millions), but we've never had a problem like this before.

Yet fifty years ago we didn't have an "illegal immigration" problem, because back then we didn't have a conservative "Illegal Employer" problem.


It was a good post till you said illegal employers were never mentioned in the press, if they were not mentioned how do we know about it????
That was a 2006 op ed. Back when we were anti illegals but you Neocons were not. Half of you got it but the corporatist ran your party and they swore they were just doing jobs Americans wouldn’t do.

Then came trump now the racist side of the Republican Party now runs the White House.

Not the senate of house. They are still corporatist. So are democrats. This is one issue I side with trump and the racist republicans.

I don’t care what color the immigrants are they are deluding our job market with low wage workers and that keeps wages down. Slow down immigration and fuck growth. Worry about middle class wages then growth next.
 
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sealybobo

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The fact is that we had an open border with Mexico for several centuries, and "illegal immigration" was never a serious problem. Before Reagan's presidency, an estimated million or so people a year came into the US from Mexico - and the same number, more or less, left the US for Mexico at the end of the agricultural harvest season. Very few stayed, because there weren't jobs for them.

Non-citizens didn't have access to the non-agricultural US job market, in large part because of the power of US labor unions (before Reagan 25% of the workforce was unionized; today the private workforce is about 7% unionized), and because companies were unwilling to risk having non-tax-deductible labor expenses on their books by hiring undocumented workers without valid Social Security numbers.

But Reagan put an end to that. His 1986 amnesty program, combined with his aggressive war on organized labor (begun in 1981), in effect told both employers and non-citizens that there would be few penalties and many rewards to increasing the US labor pool (and thus driving down wages) with undocumented immigrants. A million people a year continued to come across our southern border, but they stopped returning to Latin America every fall because instead of seasonal work they were able to find permanent jobs.

The magnet drawing them? Illegal Employers.

Yet in the American media, Illegal Employers are almost never mentioned.

Lou Dobbs, the most visible media champion of this issue, always starts his discussion of the issue with a basic syllogism - 1. Our border is porous. 2. People are coming across our porous border and diluting our labor markets, driving down US wages. 3. Therefore we must make the border less porous.

Lou's syllogism, however, ignores the real problem, the magnet drawing people to risk life and limb to illegally enter this country - Illegal Employers. Our borders have always been porous (and even with a "fence" will still allow through "tourists" by the millions), but we've never had a problem like this before.

Yet fifty years ago we didn't have an "illegal immigration" problem, because back then we didn't have a conservative "Illegal Employer" problem.
Interesting you pick that time frame and ignore the Mexican drug cartels and gangs. If employment was the only problem with illegals, you might have a case. As it is, fining illegal employers would help, but many are here in gangs and other illegal businesses, so it is not a cure all.
Neither is an expensive wall.

I hope we move our military to the border. Do you know how many privates in the military are sitting around doing nothing?

Where do we fight wars now? The hot Middle East? Seems like the border is the perfect place to train them. We make privates in boot camp hike long distances, right? Patrol the god damn border!
 

saveliberty

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Neither is an expensive wall.

I hope we move our military to the border. Do you know how many privates in the military are sitting around doing nothing?

Where do we fight wars now? The hot Middle East? Seems like the border is the perfect place to train them. We make privates in boot camp hike long distances, right? Patrol the god damn border!
Maybe the National Guard, but I am against military operations within our borders. Illegal employers are basically the head of the snake. I have thought more aggressive fines and investigations would bear fruit.
 

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