If you could change the outcome of any war in history which one would it be?

[Devils_Advocate]

God vs Lucifer and watch how Humanity changed…

 

[DudleySmith]

The Civil War so the good guys win this time.

Yes. Black people would be so much better off if that were the case, and many would be back in Africa now.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I would make it so the US abided by their treaty obligations to South Vietnam.

 

[DudleySmith]

I would change the outcomes of a lot of wars, like Charles Martel being able to stay in the field and push the Muslim invaders all the way back to Africa and out of Spain. WW I ending with the occupation of Germany, hence no need for WW II. Lincoln losing the election and hence no illegal civil war at all. The 30 Years War, actually a series of different wars, ending with a French alliance victory against the Spanish and Austrian Hapsburgs.

 

[DudleySmith]

The rebel dogs of the so-called 'confederacy' were responsible for EVERY life lost in that terrible conflict.

Go beat off to your giant poster of a Jap loading Chinese babies onto a truck with a pitchfork.

 

[Turtlesoup]

Fan of ethnic cleansing I take it.....

We were on the wrong side of the war then---Clinton was aiding the terrorist MUSLIMS again. The muslims there have been terrorizing the others for well centuries----wanting to get rid of them seems a logical solution in stopping the terror. For laughts, you should look up what the muslim terrorists did the 1st day of school to the poor kids, their parents, and their teachers.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Go beat off to your giant poster of a Jap loading Chinese babies onto a truck with a pitchfork.

He is wrong about Japan but right about which side in the Civil War was the good guys. Claiming the Confederacy was right means YOU PERSONALLY SUPPORT a slave owning Country and thus support slavery. You can cry about state rights all you want but 9 of the 11 states involved LISTED SLAVERY as the reason they were leaving the UNION.

 

[Turtlesoup]

He is wrong about Japan but right about which side in the Civil War was the good guys. Claiming the Confederacy was right means YOU PERSONALLY SUPPORT a slave owning Country and thus support slavery. You can cry about state rights all you want but 9 of the 11 states involved LISTED SLAVERY as the reason they were leaving the UNION.

The South was right...they were leaving for states rights and taxes. The south then were paying most of the taxes............and did nothing other than what the original colonies did when they left Britian.

The North had atleast 3 states that had slaves going into the war.............

ERGO..the war was not about slavery, unless you consider taxes slavery...

 

[RetiredGySgt]

The South was right...they were leaving for states rights and taxes. The south then were paying most of the taxes............and did nothing other than what the original colonies did when they left Britian.

The North had atleast 3 states that had slaves going into the war.............

ERGO..the war was not about slavery, unless you consider taxes slavery...

you are simply WRONG, the South's whole reason for leaving was the fear that Lincoln would bar them from further expansion into the west with slavery and that he would work to eliminate it all together. The fear being that soon enough with no new slave states the non slave states would have the votes to eliminate it all together.

How does one know this? By actually READING the articles drawn up by the States that left, 9 of the 11 EXPRESSLY STATED they left over the right to own slaves.

 

[Deplorable Yankee]

So a little ethnic cleansing is okay huh?

Where was your outrage when the muz zlimes were killing and raping Serbs and Slobodan stood up and said they will rape and kill you no more!...where were you and the rest of the world ?

Mort drove a bulldozer and pushed the dirt over the piles of muzz bodies

 

[Deplorable Yankee]

Clinton and half the German government should of been put on trial for war crimes

 

[DudleySmith]

He is wrong about Japan but right about which side in the Civil War was the good guys. Claiming the Confederacy was right means YOU PERSONALLY SUPPORT a slave owning Country and thus support slavery. You can cry about state rights all you want but 9 of the 11 states involved LISTED SLAVERY as the reason they were leaving the UNION.

No it doesn't mean anybody 'supports slavery'; it merely means one knows the real reasons behind the war in the first place. As for '11 states listing 'slavery' as their common ground issue for the Confederacy; that isn't the reason for the war, that was their agreement among the Confederate states that had already seceded, thanks to Lincoln's criminal acts of war. They didn't start the war, Lincoln did, and he did so deliberately, and not to free slaves; we know this because he said so in his own words. what they did afterwards is not relevant to Lincoln's own unilateral decisions.

They also agreed to a 10% tariff, and a lot of other stuff, like free trade, open ports, etc., while they were forming their own union.

The only real abolitionist in his entire cabinet was opposed to his starting a war: Seward. The only member of his 9 member cabinet who wanted a war was his Postmaster General; even Winfield Scott opposed his decision.

As for 'states' rights', it was a valid issue, and in fact granting the right to the use of force by the Federal government against a state was specifically rejected, on the advice of Madison, in 1787 at the Constitutional Convention, in very clear language. The Union was to be voluntary, and it was in fact New England states who spent the first 40 years if the union running around threatening secession all the time, not the South, so obviously they had no doubts it was a state's right to do so; even with the War of 1812 looming they were threatening to secede and join with the British, and Madison merely posted troops along their borser in case they actually made good their threat. For some reason nobody runs around in History forums screaming 'Treason!!!' over northern states advocating secession. for 40 years. every time they had a snivel about not getting their way over something or other.

Admitting that Lincoln deliberately started an illegal war is not the same as supporting the South or slavery; that is just a nonsense narrative. Whether one 'supported' either side is irrelevant to the cause. And besides, nobody here was alive then, so obviuosly the narrative is only constantly peddled by a modern agenda, mainly to bash the South and its going Republican, none of which has squat to do with slavery, which is why loons and trolls like "Paine' here are nothing but hacks and shills, not interested in history at all.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

You can whine all you want, the South started the war and they left expressly about slavery.

 

[Turtlesoup]

you are simply WRONG, the South's whole reason for leaving was the fear that Lincoln would bar them from further expansion into the west with slavery and that he would work to eliminate it all together. The fear being that soon enough with no new slave states the non slave states would have the votes to eliminate it all together.

How does one know this? By actually READING the articles drawn up by the States that left, 9 of the 11 EXPRESSLY STATED they left over the right to own slaves.

And this still does not change the fact, that the north had slave states going into the war. They were fighting over TAXES---the south got the heaviest tax bill with most of the US tax money coming in from Export taxes on things like Cotton and tobacco. The south got tired of paying for the North......

The reason why the NORTH was able to get away with this was that there were more of the northern states taking the free ride off the backs of the southern states. Having more states enter into the US as non slave states would mean simply more voting against the South and voting more taxes on the south pushing for taxes to be raised mainly again from export taxes.

Remember this as Biden and company push for more welfare and more voters----the government then and the corrupt government now are simply looking for mob rule to vote away the wealth of others that actually pay taxes.

 

[WinterBorn]

I would make it so the US abided by their treaty obligations to South Vietnam.

Wouldn't it have been nice if the US had abided by our treaty obligations everywhere.

 

[DudleySmith]

You can whine all you want, the South started the war and they left expressly about slavery.

You're doing the whining; I'm just posting the historical facts. If they don't fit the propaganda you were fed in grade school, well that's just too bad. You never fought to free anybody from slavery either.

 

[DudleySmith]

Wouldn't it have been nice if the US had abided by our treaty obligations everywhere.

We did until Obama and Kerry and Hillary came along. Now nobody believes we will back our agreements any more.

 

[DudleySmith]

And this still does not change the fact, that the north had slave states going into the war. They were fighting over TAXES---the south got the heaviest tax bill with most of the US tax money coming in from Export taxes on things like Cotton and tobacco. The south got tired of paying for the North......

The reason why the NORTH was able to get away with this was that there were more of the northern states taking the free ride off the backs of the southern states. Having more states enter into the US as non slave states would mean simply more voting against the South and voting more taxes on the south pushing for taxes to be raised mainly again from export taxes.

Remember this as Biden and company push for more welfare and more voters----the government then and the corrupt government now are simply looking for mob rule to vote away the wealth of others that actually pay taxes.

Carolina seceded when the first Morrill bills were sent out of Congressional committee and were going to be passed. No reason to stay in a union that was going to rob you blind to pay for corporate welfare that would only benefit northern states, like Lincoln's Illinois and protect New York's businesses. Congress never worried itself over 'slavery n stuff' until after they spent years arguing over who got how many shares and bloated contracts with the Pacific Railroads and who got what cuts of the the land scams in the Morrill Land Acts and whether or not the tariffs on southern imports should be 300% or 600%; that is how they spent their time in Congress during the first 4 years of the 'Civil War'.

Meanwhile Lincoln was ordering his commanders in occupied southern states to stock their ne plantations with 'freed slaves' and keep them there, making it illegal for any of them to leave without written permission, but they somehow weren't slaves because he also ordered they were to be paid $3 a month. That was his great plan for he South's 'free' blacks. Those they couldn't put to work on the cotton plantations or railroad building and military laborers were mostly forced into 'contraband camps' and left to die of starvation and disease.

Lincoln also had to rely on over 100 pro-war Democrats to keep his scam alive, and had over 75,000 troops loyal only to him personally stationed in the border states to control the elections there, making sure he always won, of course. That's how he survived the mid-terms, by a very slight margin of voted provided by his private army.

 

[WinterBorn]

We did until Obama and Kerry and Hillary came along. Now nobody believes we will back our agreements any more.

You might go back and read about all the treaties with native Americans before you make that claim.

 

[DudleySmith]

You might go back and read about all the treaties with native Americans before you make that claim.

The ones they constantly broke themselves whenever it suited them? I guess you wouldn't know of any since you didn't post any.

It's also weird how the Lincoln fans also turn around and snivel about how the poor savages were treated in the West, while they praise him no end for nothing; Lincoln sent General Pope to wipe out tribes that were demanding he pay them some $10 million owed them, and it was Lincoln's Generals who were committing all those mass killings of native villages after the war as well, Civil War Heroes all.

John Pope (general) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Following Manassas, Pope was banished far from the Eastern Theater to the Department of the Northwest in Minnesota, where he commanded U.S. Forces in the Dakota War of 1862. He was appointed to command the Department of the Missouri in 1865 and was a prominent and activist commander during Reconstruction in Atlanta. For the rest of his military career, he fought in the Indian Wars, particularly against the Apache and Sioux.

lol so much for Lincoln's devotion to Freedom And Peace. He went to war against indians while the Civil War was raging. I don't feel their pain, though, since they were feral animals who tortured humans for entertainment and sport, along with other wonderful cultural values beloved by assorted deviants, sociopaths, and other Democrats.