If you are human, you are not capable of understanding God.

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If we can know nothing about God, we're left with Cthulhu, something utterly alien. We can't know if any of the supposed pronouncements of this "God" mean what we think they mean. If it says "worship me", it might mean "throw yourself into the ocean abyss, to feed my hungry spawn".
Why would any secure, self-confident god ever say to humans, "Worship ME!"?
Maybe you don't know what worship means.
 

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My perception of God is that God is infinite logic, infinite truth, infinite intelligence, infinite wisdom, infinite knowledge, infinite love, infinite patience, infinite justice, infinite mercy, infinite kindness and infinite goodness. I am not saying God has those attributes. I am saying God is those attributes. Such that mind has always existed: that this is a life‑breeding universe because the constant presence of mind made it so and imbued his creation with His attributes.
Man's capacity to conceive of infinite perfection while acknowledging man's incapacity to ever understand or attain it is wonderfully human.

“Ah, but a man’s reach should exceed his grasp, or what’s a heaven for?” ~ ROBERT BROWNING
I would argue that "things" (which are really no things at all) like love, truth, logic, etc are perfection. So man is capable of understanding perfection if he can understand those things. Man achieving perfection is another matter. Fortunately for us being perfect does not mean doing perfect things. Many a saint has contemplated what that means. Let me repeat that for you.... being perfect does not mean doing perfect things.
 

harmonica

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Does God exist?

Yes and no.

God is not constrained by existence one way or the other.

No one can impose existence upon God, or deprive God of it.

God is none, or one, or many.

Or all simultaneously.

Or not.

That is what it means to be God.

If you insist God exists, God does not exist.

If you insist God does not exist, God exists.

God does that to remind you that you are not God.

It takes one to know one.

It's way above your pay grade.


"DO I BELIEVE HUMANS EXIST?
WHAT ARE THEY FOR?"
Does God exist?

Yes and no.

God is not constrained by existence one way or the other.

No one can impose existence upon God, or deprive God of it.

God is none, or one, or many.

Or all simultaneously.

Or not.

That is what it means to be God.

If you insist God exists, God does not exist.

If you insist God does not exist, God exists.

God does that to remind you that you are not God.

It takes one to know one.

It's way above your pay grade.


"DO I BELIEVE HUMANS EXIST?
WHAT ARE THEY FOR?"
there's no yes and no about it--no one can prove he exists = no god...and, please, don't anyone say that stupid shit ''you can't prove he doesn't exist'''

I say we have a showdown like Elijah did against the prophets of Ba’al.

People who believe in humankind on one side and those who believe in God on the other side. Put two alters up with a lamb. Then ask a group of humans to consume the sacrifice and then have the other side ask God to consume the sacrifice.

Then we will know once and for all. Do humans exist or does God exist? We can’t have it both ways.
there's no showdown --no proof-no god
 

harmonica

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there's no yes and no about it--no one can prove he exists = no god...and, please, don't anyone say that stupid shit ''you can't prove he doesn't exist'''
God both exists and doesn't exist.

Only gods can do that, because, by definition, gods' powers are limitless.

In their limited capacity, finite humans cannot comprehend simultaneous existence and non-existence.

That is within the purview of the gods alone.

Gods are impervious to humans' attempting to define them one way or the other.
no they don't ---very nonsensical
 

ding

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Does God exist?

Yes and no.

God is not constrained by existence one way or the other.

No one can impose existence upon God, or deprive God of it.

God is none, or one, or many.

Or all simultaneously.

Or not.

That is what it means to be God.

If you insist God exists, God does not exist.

If you insist God does not exist, God exists.

God does that to remind you that you are not God.

It takes one to know one.

It's way above your pay grade.


"DO I BELIEVE HUMANS EXIST?
WHAT ARE THEY FOR?"
Does God exist?

Yes and no.

God is not constrained by existence one way or the other.

No one can impose existence upon God, or deprive God of it.

God is none, or one, or many.

Or all simultaneously.

Or not.

That is what it means to be God.

If you insist God exists, God does not exist.

If you insist God does not exist, God exists.

God does that to remind you that you are not God.

It takes one to know one.

It's way above your pay grade.


"DO I BELIEVE HUMANS EXIST?
WHAT ARE THEY FOR?"
there's no yes and no about it--no one can prove he exists = no god...and, please, don't anyone say that stupid shit ''you can't prove he doesn't exist'''

I say we have a showdown like Elijah did against the prophets of Ba’al.

People who believe in humankind on one side and those who believe in God on the other side. Put two alters up with a lamb. Then ask a group of humans to consume the sacrifice and then have the other side ask God to consume the sacrifice.

Then we will know once and for all. Do humans exist or does God exist? We can’t have it both ways.
there's no showdown --no proof-no god
The proof is all around you, dum dum. Just because you can't discern it doesn't mean it's not there.
 

harmonica

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Does God exist?

Yes and no.

God is not constrained by existence one way or the other.

No one can impose existence upon God, or deprive God of it.

God is none, or one, or many.

Or all simultaneously.

Or not.

That is what it means to be God.

If you insist God exists, God does not exist.

If you insist God does not exist, God exists.

God does that to remind you that you are not God.

It takes one to know one.

It's way above your pay grade.


"DO I BELIEVE HUMANS EXIST?
WHAT ARE THEY FOR?"
Does God exist?

Yes and no.

God is not constrained by existence one way or the other.

No one can impose existence upon God, or deprive God of it.

God is none, or one, or many.

Or all simultaneously.

Or not.

That is what it means to be God.

If you insist God exists, God does not exist.

If you insist God does not exist, God exists.

God does that to remind you that you are not God.

It takes one to know one.

It's way above your pay grade.


"DO I BELIEVE HUMANS EXIST?
WHAT ARE THEY FOR?"
there's no yes and no about it--no one can prove he exists = no god...and, please, don't anyone say that stupid shit ''you can't prove he doesn't exist'''

I say we have a showdown like Elijah did against the prophets of Ba’al.

People who believe in humankind on one side and those who believe in God on the other side. Put two alters up with a lamb. Then ask a group of humans to consume the sacrifice and then have the other side ask God to consume the sacrifice.

Then we will know once and for all. Do humans exist or does God exist? We can’t have it both ways.
there's no showdown --no proof-no god
The proof is all around you, dum dum. Just because you can't discern it doesn't mean it's not there.
we've been over this a million times and a million times you just babble like your post here = no proof
..stop the double talk babble--we are not stupid
 

ding

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Does God exist?

Yes and no.

God is not constrained by existence one way or the other.

No one can impose existence upon God, or deprive God of it.

God is none, or one, or many.

Or all simultaneously.

Or not.

That is what it means to be God.

If you insist God exists, God does not exist.

If you insist God does not exist, God exists.

God does that to remind you that you are not God.

It takes one to know one.

It's way above your pay grade.


"DO I BELIEVE HUMANS EXIST?
WHAT ARE THEY FOR?"
Does God exist?

Yes and no.

God is not constrained by existence one way or the other.

No one can impose existence upon God, or deprive God of it.

God is none, or one, or many.

Or all simultaneously.

Or not.

That is what it means to be God.

If you insist God exists, God does not exist.

If you insist God does not exist, God exists.

God does that to remind you that you are not God.

It takes one to know one.

It's way above your pay grade.


"DO I BELIEVE HUMANS EXIST?
WHAT ARE THEY FOR?"
there's no yes and no about it--no one can prove he exists = no god...and, please, don't anyone say that stupid shit ''you can't prove he doesn't exist'''

I say we have a showdown like Elijah did against the prophets of Ba’al.

People who believe in humankind on one side and those who believe in God on the other side. Put two alters up with a lamb. Then ask a group of humans to consume the sacrifice and then have the other side ask God to consume the sacrifice.

Then we will know once and for all. Do humans exist or does God exist? We can’t have it both ways.
there's no showdown --no proof-no god
The proof is all around you, dum dum. Just because you can't discern it doesn't mean it's not there.
we've been over this a million times and a million times you just babble like your post here = no proof
..stop the double talk babble--we are not stupid
uh huh....

The universe pops into existence being hard wired to produce intelligence and you don't even pause to wonder why?

If electrons orbited closer to the nucleus the universe could have been created the exact same way but there would be no possibility for life or intelligence to emerge.

If electrons and protons did not have the exact opposite charge the universe could have been created the exact same way but there would be no possibility for life or intelligence to emerge.

Like I said... The proof is all around you, dum dum. Just because you can't discern it doesn't mean it's not there.
 
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schmidlap

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... He only gave us two options; He either is who He says He is or He is mad...
I have often heard this false dichotomy that was contrived by some who have an obvious agenda.

I have no reason to submit to such a self-serving, restricted option.

The implicit premise of trusting literally in selected aural traditions, some of which were later interpreted, translated, edited, and transcribed, usually with ulterior objectives at each stage, does not result in such a simplistic "either-or" for me.
 
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schmidlap

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The universe pops into existence being hard wired to produce intelligence and you don't even pause to wonder why?
The origin of existence is an abiding mystery that commands enormous wonder.

Some have had the temerity to imagine they are capable of nailing it with one explanation or another, and some have been audacious, doctrinaire, and even fanatical in insisting upon their favorite version, yet the mystery endures.

And that's a good thing.
 

ding

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... unless you believe there was a broad conspiracy to forge ~24,000 written manuscripts, He only gave us two options; He either is who He says He is or He is mad. I don't know anyone who after reading what He said that believes He is mad.
I have often heard this false dichotomy that was contrived by some who have an obvious agenda.

I have no reason to submit to such a self-serving, restricted option.

The implicit premise of trusting literally in selected aural traditions, some of which were later interpreted, translated, edited, and transcribed, usually with ulterior objectives at each stage, does not result in such a simplistic "either-or" for me.
24,000 + written manuscripts say otherwise. Unless you believe there was a broad conspiracy to forge ~24,000 written manuscripts... like I already said.

But it's nice you acknowledged it would be insane to call Jesus mad. I agree.
 

ding

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The universe pops into existence being hard wired to produce intelligence and you don't even pause to wonder why?
The origin of existence is an abiding mystery that commands enormous wonder.

Some have had the temerity to imagine they are capable of nailing it with one explanation or another, and some have been audacious, doctrinaire, and even fanatical in insisting upon their favorite version, yet the mystery endures.

And that's a good thing.
There are only two options; either the universe has always existed or the universe began. That's it. Everything else will simplify to one of these two options. It's an old debate. Been going on for thousands of years. Science has settled it though. The universe began. This seems to make some atheists uncomfortable.
 

Slyhunter

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Does God exist?

Yes and no.

God is not constrained by existence one way or the other.

No one can impose existence upon God, or deprive God of it.

God is none, or one, or many.

Or all simultaneously.

Or not.

That is what it means to be God.

If you insist God exists, God does not exist.

If you insist God does not exist, God exists.

God does that to remind you that you are not God.

It takes one to know one.

It's way above your pay grade.


"DO I BELIEVE HUMANS EXIST?
WHAT ARE THEY FOR?"
Sort of like Climate change.
 

Slyhunter

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The universe pops into existence being hard wired to produce intelligence and you don't even pause to wonder why?
The origin of existence is an abiding mystery that commands enormous wonder.

Some have had the temerity to imagine they are capable of nailing it with one explanation or another, and some have been audacious, doctrinaire, and even fanatical in insisting upon their favorite version, yet the mystery endures.

And that's a good thing.
There are only two options; either the universe has always existed or the universe began. That's it. Everything else will simplify to one of these two options. It's an old debate. Been going on for thousands of years. Science has settled it though. The universe began. This seems to make some atheists uncomfortable.
nah your ignoring the Multiverse.
 

BreezeWood

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My perception of God is that God is infinite logic, infinite truth, infinite intelligence, infinite wisdom, infinite knowledge, infinite love, infinite patience, infinite justice, infinite mercy, infinite kindness and infinite goodness. I am not saying God has those attributes. I am saying God is those attributes. Such that mind has always existed: that this is a life‑breeding universe because the constant presence of mind made it so and imbued his creation with His attributes.
Man's capacity to conceive of infinite perfection while acknowledging man's incapacity to ever understand or attain it is wonderfully human.

“Ah, but a man’s reach should exceed his grasp, or what’s a heaven for?” ~ ROBERT BROWNING
.
Man's capacity to conceive of infinite perfection while acknowledging man's incapacity to ever understand or attain it is wonderfully human.
.
not wonderfully everyone, mainly the misguided that use religion or their own ineptitude as a crutch that do not actually even try to accomplish spiritual purity and simply perish with their physiology. or simply chose not to do so and accept their destiny that will not be their own.

religion in itself is the aspiration for the means to accomplish the goal of perfection to free their spirit to flourish in the Everlasting and await after time for what surly will be the next objective to accomplish.
 

ding

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The universe pops into existence being hard wired to produce intelligence and you don't even pause to wonder why?
The origin of existence is an abiding mystery that commands enormous wonder.

Some have had the temerity to imagine they are capable of nailing it with one explanation or another, and some have been audacious, doctrinaire, and even fanatical in insisting upon their favorite version, yet the mystery endures.

And that's a good thing.
There are only two options; either the universe has always existed or the universe began. That's it. Everything else will simplify to one of these two options. It's an old debate. Been going on for thousands of years. Science has settled it though. The universe began. This seems to make some atheists uncomfortable.
nah your ignoring the Multiverse.
Nope, not ignoring the multiverse. I am talking about the universe we live in. I make no comment on any space and time outside of our space and time.

But if YOU believe in multiverses then YOU must believe our universe began and was created from nothing.
 
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schmidlap

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religion in itself is the aspiration for the means to accomplish the goal of perfection to free their spirit to flourish in the Everlasting and await after time for what surly will be the next objective to accomplish.
Religion is an exclusively human construct, and is, necessarily, whatever humans make of it.

The human notion of eternal existence is an enduring catalyst in the various religions that have been conceived.
 
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schmidlap

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24,000 + written manuscripts say otherwise. Unless you believe there was a broad conspiracy to forge ~24,000 written manuscripts... like I already said.
Some who selectively embrace the compilation of historical remnants from which they form their narrative are arrogantly dismissive of the Puranas, the Tripitaka, the Granth, the Qur'an, etc., etc., etc.

For many, religion - that purports to aspire to universality - is actually a very parochial matter.
 

Grumblenuts

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Does God exist?

Yes and no.

God is not constrained by existence one way or the other.

No one can impose existence upon God, or deprive God of it.

God is none, or one, or many.

Or all simultaneously.

Or not.

That is what it means to be God.

If you insist God exists, God does not exist.

If you insist God does not exist, God exists.

God does that to remind you that you are not God.

It takes one to know one.

It's way above your pay grade.


"DO I BELIEVE HUMANS EXIST?
WHAT ARE THEY FOR?"
Maimonides responds...

"If you remove all anthropomorphic content from your conception of God: you remove all content of any kind. In the end, you are left with a God whose essence is unknowable and indescribable. Of what possible value is such a conception either to philosophy or religion?..."

Maimonides (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)
Maimonides was right. Humans can only create gods that are limited by what humans can can comprehend.

Otherwise, the religion business would not exist.

Hubris allows humans to imagine that they can define what is so far beyond them.
Gods are then hubris.
 

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